Polygamy

[ku]

Should a man be allowed to have many wives, say, ten wives? Same applies with women. Should a woman be allowed to have ten husbands?

[Dak]

Sure, I dont see why not, as long as they are all aware of one-another and any kids are well looked-after.

[Pangloss]

This is going to be a serious conundrum for the American political left, which has traditionally staged strong opposition to polygamy on the grounds that it is unfair to women. It's a standard straw man argument, really -- some women are abused, and therefore it is the institution of polygamy which must be stopped, not the abuse itself. After all, men are evil, and therefore anything men do is probably evil. NOW was a big leader in this area.

 

But of course now (if you'll pardon the pun) they have backed themselves into a major hypocrisy. The moral basis for supporting gay marriage is, as Dak said above, a very simple, freedom and fairness based position. Consenting adults, and all that. So how can they go back to opposing polygamy?

 

Whether it becomes an issue again is another matter. Getting the left-leaning press to acknowledge and air out that dirty laundry is a bit of a pipe dream, and the religious establishment of Utah (one of the last great bastions of "conservative democrats") is rather firmly in control of its people, and opposes polygamy.

 

So this debate may simply never come up in the public arena. But I think it's an interesting one.

[john5746]

From a moral standpoint, I see no problem. From a legal standpoint, I think it should be kept to two consenting adults. Having a "divorce" of a marriage between 20 people would be a nightmare.

[Phi for All]

I think most people are too jealous for polygamy to gain much of a following. They equate monogamy with ownership and are too possesive of their exclusive rights.

 

Practically, with costs skyrocketing, I can think of nothing better than having a "family" of 4-6 men and women with all their children in a big house, sharing costs and responsibilities. I'm sure this would carry it's own problems, but if you could eliminate jealousy and possesiveness amongst the spouses, it would be a very efficient use of resources. It's getting tougher for a couple to own a home and have kids and make ends meet these days.

[YT2095]

Should a man be allowed to have many wives, say, ten wives?

 

not unless he`s COMPLETELY Crazy!

[beautyundone]

^ that wasn't very nice. i'm offended. lol. women aren't THAT bad. geez.

[-Demosthenes-]

I think most people are too jealous for polygamy to gain much of a following.

There are a whole lot in my area in Utah. But they should not be confused with the Mormon Church, which they are not a part.

[MetaFrizzics]

Should a man be allowed to have many wives, say, ten wives? Same applies with women. Should a woman be allowed to have ten husbands?

I don't think this is possible now, seeing that everyone over 14 in the USA has had more than ten partners already.

 

In bibilical law, "you break, you buy." One per customer, sale items, no returns.

 

The law of divorce (Moses) allowed for adultery, but not for the divorcer.

 

So using the word 'wives' is as inappropriate in modern times as 'husband'. Those were biblical terms meant to apply to the terms of definition of marriage under the laws provided. No one today qualifies for 'marriage', or status as 'husband/wife' or even 'divorced'.

[AzurePhoenix]

^ that wasn't very nice. i'm offended. lol. women aren't THAT bad. geez.

Individually, no, we aren't. But give him a break. Of my six closest female friends, as few as three together is enough to drive me crazy often enough, depending on their drama-levels. Imagine how bad 10 on 1 would be for a poor, degenerate little male!

[john5746]

There are a whole lot in my area in Utah. But they should not be confused with the Mormon Church, which they are not a part.

 

Yes, I saw recently where they are having problems with the older men making the younger men leave to keep them away from their harems. That's one big problem with polygomy that goes one way. Many men are left out of the picture.

[Phi for All]

That's usually the way polygamy is perceived, one man with many wives, or one woman with many husbands. I think that way is destined to fail. Too much inequity that way.

 

I really could see having three men and three women with their kids sharing their lives, be it hetero, homo, or bisexually or any combo they agree on. They'd have their own village for support and sharing of duties. Get a few groups like that together and you could form a buying cooperative to really save some bucks.

 

But people view intimate relationships possesively, afraid that opening up to others will mean competition. I can't imagine this attitude changing very easily.

[MetaFrizzics]

Yes, I saw recently where they are having problems with the older men making the younger men leave to keep them away from their harems. That's one big problem with polygomy that goes one way. Many men are left out of the picture.

The general principle of polygamy is enforced economically in the West by millionaires hiring bike gangs to prostitute your daughters.

 

Of course you can't have it both ways: You can't bribe or trick all the young girls into acting like cheap sluts and then expect them to be available or even desirable for monogamous relationships later. Man is the maker of his own demise.

 

Someday, in your lonely little bachelorette apartments with hot-plates, all you aging evolutionists will start pining for the good old semi-chaste days of the Christian era.

[Pangloss]

Yeesh, isn't there a rule about poison pilling threads around here? Somebody needs to take out the garbage.

 

Phi, you a Heinlein fan?

[Phi for All]

Yeesh, isn't there a rule about poison pilling threads around here? Somebody needs to take out the garbage.

Trash day is right around the corner, believe me. I'm sick of the smell.

Phi, you a Heinlein fan?

I think he goes too far with his ideas about incest, and his group marriages are always stable. But then he writes from a perspective where polygamy has been an accepted practice for a long time and people have ironed out the kinks (did I say kinks?). I think The Moon is a Harsh Mistress had more believable polygamies than Stranger in a Strange Land.

 

This is one of those instances where I can look at the subject objectively and say it has merit, but subjectively I can't see it working easily. A relationship between two people is difficult, would one between four people be twice as tough or exponentially tougher?

[beautyundone]

Individually, no, we aren't. But give him a break. Of my six closest female friends, as few as three together is enough to drive me[/i'] crazy often enough, depending on their drama-levels. Imagine how bad 10 on 1 would be for a poor, degenerate little male!

 

 

*giggle* i see your point.

[Pangloss]

I think he goes too far with his ideas about incest' date=' and his group marriages are always stable. But then he writes from a perspective where polygamy has been an accepted practice for a long time and people have ironed out the kinks (did I say kinks?). I think [i']The Moon is a Harsh Mistress[/i] had more believable polygamies than Stranger in a Strange Land.

 

I thought I detected a thread there. I need to yank a couple of those off the shelves. It's been a long time since I've read them -- it might be interesting to read them again in a modern political context. I appreciate the inadvertent suggestion.

 

What I dimly recall is that for every interesting Moon is a Harsh Mistress, there's a bogged-down Number of the Beast (I tell you three times, I will never read this book again!). But perhaps I'll see them differently now.

 

This is one of those instances where I can look at the subject objectively and say it has merit, but subjectively I can't see it working easily. A relationship between two people is difficult, would one between four people be twice as tough or exponentially tougher?

 

Good lord... please let us not discover that there was actual VALUE in all those horrid reality shows....

[Dak]

This is one of those instances where I can look at the subject objectively and say it has merit, but subjectively I can't see it working easily. A relationship between two people is difficult, would one between four people be twice as tough or exponentially tougher?

 

I think most of the difficulty comes from the monogomy. friendships are alot easyer than relationships, and I dont really see why we cant do away with the whole 'relationship' thingy and just make do with lots of friends.

 

seems simpler to me.

[Lance]

I think most of the difficulty comes from the monogomy. friendships are alot easyer than relationships' date=' and I dont really see why we cant do away with the whole 'relationship' thingy and just make do with lots of friends.

 

seems simpler to me.[/quote']

 

What about when we have an urge to... consummate our friendship?

[Severian]

I think he goes too far with his ideas about incest' date=' and his group marriages are always stable. But then he writes from a perspective where polygamy has been an accepted practice for a long time and people have ironed out the kinks (did I say kinks?). I think [i']The Moon is a Harsh Mistress[/i] had more believable polygamies than Stranger in a Strange Land.

 

The ending of Time Enough for Love, when the hero has sex with his mother, was a bit much for me. Yuck!

[Dak]

What about when we have an urge to... consummate our friendship?

 

we consomate it. duh!

[MetaFrizzics]

Heinlein began innocently enough, merely challenging stale middle-class values of previous generations. But it soon became apparent after hooking youthful sci-fi fans, that the medium was for him just a vehicle to derail every piece of cultural common sense and decorum the West possessed.

 

People like Heinlein don't drop out of the sky. The grow out of intellectual elitist cults in university rich-kid settings by feeding the natural youthful rebellious urge until it becomes a lifelong obsession, rather than growing up.

 

The climax of Stranger in a Strange Land had nowhere to go but into an out-of-control downward spiral of pushing the envelope of depravity and perversion. Worse, the themes were all old and boring. Edipus complexes, 70's pop psychology and pop-pseudo science, free-love, all mixed together to form a brown lifeless soup, like what you get if you ask kindergarden kids to mix their own paints.

 

In five dreary novels, Heinlein went from sci-fi hero to cross-dressing zero.

[Lance]

we consomate it. duh!

But if everybody is having sex with all their freinds all the time wouldn't life just become one big orgy? I'm not really complaining but it just seems a little odd in comparison with my life where nobody has sex with me any time.

[Pangloss]

Challenging an author's assertions: Good thing.

 

Drawing judgemental conclusions about them because you're offended by and afraid of the material: Bad thing.

[MetaFrizzics]

Challenging an author's assertions: Good thing.

Drawing judgemental conclusions about them because you're offended by and afraid of the material: Bad thing.

 

A Heinlein novel published in the 70's: $1.98

 

A real-world education the enables the reader to shake off the B.S.: 30 years.

 

A self-contradictory ethical judgement against an ethical critique of a book: priceless.

 

Sawing off the limb your sitting on: common.