Alien origin thought experiment.

[Moontanman]

Just as a thought experiment lets say that on June 25th the Pentagon confirms that UAPs or UFOs are indeed crafts of some sort from another place driven by the little grey guys so often described as being their pilots. I am going to add a poll for the four possibilities that cover what is being reported by people who see and or interact with the crafts. 

[Moontanman]

I forgot to add I'd like to see why of your choices discussed.

 

I chose time travelers due to the resemblance the reported entities have to humans. I wouldn't expect aliens to resemble humans so closely.  

[MigL]

How many 'sightings' have there been in the last 75 years ?
Time travellers would have an interest in being discreet, and not interacting with our present.
Their future ( present ? ) depends on it.
( the butterfly effect ,and the Mcfly family dsappearing from photographs )

[beecee]

I'm with an advanced civilisation from another planetary system.

5 hours ago, Moontanman said:

I chose time travelers due to the resemblance the reported entities have to humans. I wouldn't expect aliens to resemble humans so closely.  

Perhaps the "human resemblance" evolutionary process, is simply the most favoured to reach advanced intelligence and associated abilities. What I mean is that while an Octupus is obviously "intelligent" it is still confined somewhat by its evolutionary path.

I pick a civilisation from another planet simly because of the "near infinite" extent and content of our universe, and the stuff of life being everywhere we look.

[Kartazion]

Another planetary system: I think this is undeniable.
Another hidden (deep sea or underground would be possible examples) civilization: Are they really aliens? Or then hidden or unknown terrestrial beings?
Time travelers from the far future: I think that is the answer.

[QuantumT]

Due to the enormous distances in space, alien visitors are extremely unlikely. How would they even find us? A lucky coincidence? Nah....
Underground people?! C'mon!
To travel back in time violates the laws of nature.

That only leaves one option. An option that sounds ridiculous, unless we live in a simulation...

That is why option number two got my vote. It seems like woo, but it isn't, in a simulated reality.

[beecee]

31 minutes ago, QuantumT said:

Due to the enormous distances in space, alien visitors are extremely unlikely. How would they even find us? A lucky coincidence? Nah....

Certainly time and distance are the two great barriers making interplanetary contact difficult, but not impossible.

[Conscious Energy]

Due to the extrem extent of space, I voted another planetary system.

In my opinion life is quite common in the universe, considering that every sun has a habitable zone, during their entire lifespan.

I think there might be billions of intelligent life’s out there with different levels of evolution. 

type 0 = 99.999999999…9%
type 1 = 00.0000000000…4%
type 2 = 00.0000000000…3%
type 3 = 00.0000000000…2%

type 4 = 00.0000000000…1%

I think distance (Space) with time can be conquered, by the help of Science, so an aged, matured, advanced intelligent life form could be able to pay us a visit. 
 

Edited June 20, 2021 by Conscious Energy

[zapatos]

I'll vote for another planetary system, although I am guessing the "little grey guys" are inflatable autopilots, as in "Airplane!" circa 1980. Robotic exploratory craft could have been sent to promising planetary systems a long time ago in the hunt for alien (us) life. 

Aliens probably were no more successful with their version of SETI than we are, and decided to take an active rather than passive approach to finding life.

[Bufofrog]

I don't think there is alien life involved with UAPs.  I don't think time travel is possible.  I don't think interstellar space travel is feasible.  I am curious to see if UAPs are anything more than glitches and misidentification, I don't know what it could be though.

[Alex_Krycek]

I'd choose another plane of existence as my first option.  If multiverse theory is correct, and there are an infinite amount of parallel universes, it might be possible for some species to eventually cross over into different dimensions at will.  

Second, I'd choose "from another planetary system".  Conservative estimates state that there is at least one planet for every solar system in the galaxy.  With billions of solar systems in the galaxy, there are billions of potentially habitable planets. 

I highly doubt that human beings are the most intelligent organisms in the universe.  There is probably a spectrum of intelligent life out there - organisms that are less intelligent than human beings and those that are significantly more intelligent.  

Depending on how long they have been evolving, and the nature of their evolution, a species could already have developed technology capable of efficiently traversing vast regions of space and time. 

That leaves the question: why would they want to come here?  Well, why not?  A key attribute of intelligence is curiosity and an interest in exploration.  I don't think these attributes would be confined to the species on Earth, but would extend to all life in the universe.  

[Moontanman]

19 hours ago, zapatos said:

I'll vote for another planetary system, although I am guessing the "little grey guys" are inflatable autopilots, as in "Airplane!" circa 1980. Robotic exploratory craft could have been sent to promising planetary systems a long time ago in the hunt for alien (us) life. 

Aliens probably were no more successful with their version of SETI than we are, and decided to take an active rather than passive approach to finding life.

Actually way back in the day, some abductees claimed that the little grey guys were biological robots, or so the abductees were told. 

[dimreepr]

I'd like to suggest a fifth option, Alien life is inevitable; but never the twain shall meet...

[Moontanman]

4 hours ago, dimreepr said:

I'd like to suggest a fifth option, Alien life is inevitable; but never the twain shall meet...

I see no reason to assume aliens exist but we can never meet them, care to elaborate? 

[Bufofrog]

3 minutes ago, Moontanman said:

I see no reason to assume aliens exist but we can never meet them, care to elaborate? 

I'll jump in here uninvited to say we won't meet in 'person'.  Maybe we would be able to find and communicate with an alien race within 100 ly or so from us.  It would be pretty cool getting answers to questions with an alien perspective, even if it takes 200 years for the answer!  Unfortunately meeting face to face seems unattainable since based on what we know interstellar space travel is just not feasible.

[dimreepr]

19 hours ago, Moontanman said:

I see no reason to assume aliens exist but we can never meet them, care to elaborate? 

Signal to noise ratio..

 

 

6 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Signal to noise ratio..

 

 

Where do you look???

Edited June 22, 2021 by dimreepr

[Moontanman]

20 hours ago, Bufofrog said:

I'll jump in here uninvited to say we won't meet in 'person'.  Maybe we would be able to find and communicate with an alien race within 100 ly or so from us.  It would be pretty cool getting answers to questions with an alien perspective, even if it takes 200 years for the answer!  Unfortunately meeting face to face seems unattainable since based on what we know interstellar space travel is just not feasible.

Why do you say interstellar travel is not feasible? Slow interstellar arks could work, no need for "Clark Tech"

[swansont]

4 minutes ago, Moontanman said:

Why do you say interstellar travel is not feasible? Slow interstellar arks could work, no need for "Clark Tech"

Claimed without evidence, yet again.

You've never been able to support this without an appeal to technology that does not exist, and properties of the universe that are not confirmed.

[Moontanman]

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

Signal to noise ratio..

 

 

Where do you look???

There are possibilities, slow boat ark type ships are possible, even probable. I'd look in the oort cloud or the kuiper belt, given controlled fusion, colonising planets become unnecessary. see O'Neil cylinders   

1 minute ago, swansont said:

Claimed without evidence, yet again.

You've never been able to support this without an appeal to technology that does not exist, and properties of the universe that are not confirmed.

I only assume controlled fusion. Everyone knows controlled fusion is just 20 years away. 

 

3 minutes ago, swansont said:

Claimed without evidence, yet again.

You've never been able to support this without an appeal to technology that does not exist, and properties of the universe that are not confirmed.

What unconfirmed properties of the universe are we talking about? 

Another take on space habitats. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McKendree_cylinder

Edited June 22, 2021 by Moontanman

[swansont]

23 minutes ago, Moontanman said:

What unconfirmed properties of the universe are we talking about? 

Another take on space habitats. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McKendree_cylinder

I have no desire to revisit this. The threads exist.

I also can't help but note that my objection to you citing nonexistent technology is to cite...nonexistent technology.

Quote

I only assume controlled fusion. Everyone knows controlled fusion is just 20 years away. 

And has been for 40 years.

[zapatos]

9 minutes ago, swansont said:

I also can't help but note that my objection to you citing nonexistent technology is to cite...nonexistent technology.

Moon is not suggesting we leave tomorrow, and therefore is not dependent on current technology. If the proposed future technology seems feasible, or it at least does not violate accepted physics, I'm unsure why he cannot reference it to discuss the future. The technology to colonize Mars does not exist but that doesn't keep reputable scientists from discussing it as a possible future endeavor.

Discussions about the future are, almost by definition, required to speculate about future technologies.

[Conscious Energy]

2 hours ago, dimreepr said:

Where do you look???

In the mathematically most probable point of space(time) 😉

The information is 99,999…% sure out there.
 

Sadly we yet do not have the physical reality adjusted absolute true math which would be able to predict where to look for it.
 

I think we just yet not enough intelligent to participate in interstellar/intergalactic communication. I.e. in the 21th century, in the age of technology we are not able to answer how much Is 1/0 and why. 

How would we be able to participate in a communication which could happen on the speed of c on the x, and might even  involve energy and matter(atoms)? 

There are solutions out there we yet can not even understand since we yet not able to perceive and axiomatise(theorise) Reality beyond Relativity.

If we do not really know how the Universe works, how can we expect to find the channels and methods, the universal communication happens in.

Like a bacteria would like to join the ScienceForums.net

Edited June 22, 2021 by Conscious Energy

[zapatos]

3 minutes ago, Conscious Energy said:

If we do not really know how the Universe works, how can we expect to find the channels and methods the universal communication happens in.

Electromagnetic radiation is ubiquitous, and has the advantage of traveling at c. I think it is safe to assume that an advanced civilization will have discovered it and figured out how to use it. While it is certainly not the only communication medium, someone interested in talking to us will likely attempt multiple channels.

We don't have to wait until we know everything to do something.

[thegreysmustashtheclones]

!

Moderator Note

Link deleted. If you want to discuss something please do that in this site rather than direct to somewhere else.

 

[Bufofrog]

1 hour ago, Moontanman said:

Why do you say interstellar travel is not feasible? Slow interstellar arks could work, no need for "Clark Tech"

I fear that even with something like controlled fusion it doesn't make sense.  How close would a planet be that has a breathable atmosphere?  1000 ly?  5000 ly?  Even if you can travel at 25% the speed of light, it ain't going to happen.