dimreepr Posted January 3, 2022 Posted January 3, 2022 17 hours ago, beecee said: As usual, you have let yourself down. 10:1 thanks. 16 hours ago, beecee said: While recognising that octopuses would never evolve to be space travellers as they are seriously curtailed by their evolutionary processes, You're just not getting it, or are you refusing to get it (I'd love to play you at poker); your view of the potential of octopuses is coloured by your view as explained by sir David on the BBC. The octopus/rabbit/tomato is not limited by your view of them, now... 16 hours ago, beecee said: (in essence this silly claim is invalidated by the fact that they would have to evolve as to be not recognisable as cephalopods.) Why is that a barrier to evolution? You use silly a lot now; since "it is a silly thing"... 😉
beecee Posted January 3, 2022 Posted January 3, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, dimreepr said: 10:1 thanks. You're just not getting it, or are you refusing to get it (I'd love to play you at poker); your view of the potential of octopuses is coloured by your view as explained by sir David on the BBC. The octopus/rabbit/tomato is not limited by your view of them, now... Why is that a barrier to evolution? You use silly a lot now; since "it is a silly thing"... 😉 😏🥱Whatever floats your little boat matey. https://theconversation.com/curious-kids-could-octopuses-evolve-until-they-take-over-the-world-and-travel-to-space-156493 extracts: Michael, aged 14, asks: "If the faster part of human evolution is over, and squids and octopuses continue to evolve, could there be an apocalypse where the cephalopods take over the world?" ANSWER: EXTRACTS: "They use tools to solve problems (like us) and they can open child-proof containers (not always like us). And just last week, research found a cuttlefish (another cephalopod, cousins of octopuses) passed an intelligence test designed for toddlers that showed they have advanced self control. Like us, octopus have large brains compared to their body size: It is, however, hard to compare brain size between marine animals and land animals, because the laws of physics differ in water and air. Animals are weightless in water but on land body shape and size is limited by gravity. An octopus brain is made up of about 500 million brain cells. Humans, on the other hand, have 86 billion brain cells. Unlike us though, octopuses don’t live for very long. The giant Pacific octopus might live up to five years, but most live for just a year and some as little as six months. Compared to other species, octopuses actually evolve really, really slowly. Modern humans, by comparison, have only existed for 200,000 years and in that time, have taken over the planet (and badly damaged it in the process). But lets face it. Despite all their tricks, octopuses are still working from a snail blueprint, and there’s only so much you can do with that toolbox. They are also highly constrained by their very short life-span. In short, octopuses are very intelligent animals and one of the smartest creatures in the ocean. But their short life span and vulnerabilities on land are serious handicaps when it comes to taking over the world. (Or to undertake space travel) ps: Last highlighted bracketed sentence by me. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Now dimreeper while I have jumped through your hoops in a vane effort to reveal some facts to you, you are still avoiding, (and pretending no one is noticing) the question/s in the OP. Quite telling...and sad. 🙄 Until you are prepared to act adult like and answer the OP question, your fun and games are over. (Apologies if you see the convenient need to misconstrue anything I have said as insults) but really, your claim is silly, along with of course your refusal to answer the OP question. 😉 https://thedebrief.org/will-hyperintelligent-octopuses-take-over-the-world/ Even with the large brains, octopuses suffer from shorter life spans, so they may not be exiting the oceans and enslaving humanity soon. (or undertake space travel) ps: dimreeper A reputable link will also be reviewed. I don't believe you have really given any yet, along with of course your silly refusal in answering the OP question/s. 🙄 Please, make my day!😜 Some Interesting answers here on this subject of octopuses (as distinct from octopi) https://www.quora.com/Could-octopi-take-over-the-world Octopus are predators, current thinking states that predators evolve to have more intelligence than prey, therefore we can for now assume that Octopus are in the race to armament as any other predator is ( e.g. Humans). For more references see Cephalopod intelligence - Wikipedia. They are one of the many competitors to replace human kind as the top predator on earth, however there is a technological barrier, under water they cannot forge metals and that would stunt their ability to become major players in the technological arena above the sea since primates and quite a few birds are already tool users. So to sum up a very lengthy answer, no, there are better candidates right now. Why do you think that a species of the class of octopodes take over the world. They had 500,000,000 years the time to do so, but rejoyed living in the oceans. https://www.quora.com/If-octopi-were-social-could-they-be-the-humans-of-the-ocean-If-not-what-other-limits-are-there-on-the-octopus Octopuses are quite intelligent but they are pretty much the opposite of social - if two octopuses meet the most likely outcome is that one will eat the other. If they were social they would still have some major hurdles to overcome: They have a very short lifespan which limits the amount of experiences to which they have access thus limiting their accumulation of knowledge. There is no parental care after hatching - thus no ‘passing along’ of knowledge between generations. They fail one of the classic tests for self awareness - if an octopus sees itself in a mirror it doesn’t recognize the image as one of itself. They have no apparent capability for abstract language. They don’t have access to fire. https://www.quora.com/Could-octopuses-ever-evolve-into-a-sapient-species-Why-or-why-not No, octopuses are unlikely to evolve into a sapient species … but the reason why is sort of sad. Octopuses are indeed highly intelligent creatures, but they suffer a drawback in their evolution that is so severe that they lack the ability to develop their intelligence past a single generation … they have extremely short lives. An octopus has one purpose in life … babies. A father will die weeks after mating. A mother octopus will starve herself to death rather than leave her brood alone even for a second … and this is actually the most common form of death for an octopus. This means that as the mother dies then the offspring are born, meaning they never transmit their knowledge to the next generation. The reality is that octopuses simply do not live long enough, nor have time to pass on their knowledge. Unless they evolve longer lives then they are stuck where they are in terms of intelligence. https://www.quora.com/Could-octopuses-ever-evolve-into-a-sapient-species-Why-or-why-not short answer: So… No, for reasons other than mentioned by others. Octopodes will not ‘evolve’ into more intelligent beings, whether sentient, or sapient is your chosen definition - at least not by the means of natural selection. They are choosing to be and patterning their selection with every generation to be more intelligent. For all the reasons others say they cannot be more intelligent: short life span, they should be more worrisome as far as intelligence goes. In taking a hand in their own fate, unlike us who are are left to evolutionary chance, cephelopods are using many generations to advance step by step deliberately. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Edited January 3, 2022 by beecee
dimreepr Posted January 4, 2022 Posted January 4, 2022 15 hours ago, beecee said: In short, octopuses are very intelligent animals and one of the smartest creatures in the ocean. But their short life span and vulnerabilities on land are serious handicaps when it comes to taking over the world. (Or to undertake space travel) ps: Last highlighted bracketed sentence by me. That assumes the current evolutionary pressure's will continue on it's current path without change. An unforeseeable change in that path renders that speculation null; for instance a change in the oceans, force's octopuses on to the land and a new path to evolve on. 14 hours ago, beecee said: Which octopus are you dimreeper? The six legged banana flavoured kind.
dimreepr Posted January 4, 2022 Posted January 4, 2022 17 hours ago, beecee said: Now dimreeper while I have jumped through your hoops in a vane effort to reveal some facts to you, you are still avoiding, (and pretending no one is noticing) the question/s in the OP. Quite telling...and sad. 🙄 You certainly have jumped through hoops in a vane effort to make us understand; Douglas Adams was right, you're a Dolphin that's about to leave the planet.
beecee Posted January 4, 2022 Posted January 4, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, dimreepr said: Same old same old. 🥱 and silly.(1) no attempt yet to answer the OP question, (2) no links supporting the evolution of space travelling octopuses, (3) Ignoring the links given showing why space travelling octopuses will never be. 🤮 So unscientific. Edited January 4, 2022 by beecee
Phi for All Posted January 4, 2022 Posted January 4, 2022 Vane efforts are like building a turbine. Vain efforts don't yield the expected outcome. Vein efforts are when we see blood vessels stand out on your skin. 1
beecee Posted January 4, 2022 Posted January 4, 2022 (edited) I'm no expert on the theory of evolution, other then understanding that it is one of the few theories that are that close to "certain" as to be fact. One of the aspects I understand is that evolutionary paths are driven by need and the environment and adaptation. That is no better illustrated then the finches on the Galapagos Islands having developed different shaped beaks to take advantage of the different kinds of food available on different islands. I have often heard the question/s asked, why don't chimps. gorillas all evolve into human. We are all Apes...like the Neanderthals, and also our cousins the orangutans, gorillas, bonobos and chimpanzees. All of us evolved from a common ancestor that lived about 14 million years ago...Those apes have been on their own line of evolution for more than 10 million years. You can't go back up that lineage and back down again. The same applies even with far more validity with octopuses. If we forget about our cousins and our first common ancestor 14 million years ago, and substitute the octopuse and where our most common ancestor is in that regard, we need to go back about 750 million years! that was a flatworm that lived on the Ocean floors and the point at which we totally separate down separate evolutionary pathways. Here's a couple of reputable links again, basically saying the above...... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2016/06/27/dear-science-why-arent-apes-evolving-into-humans/ https://eusci.org.uk/2020/06/22/an-alien-in-our-sea-a-look-at-the-intelligence-of-an-octopus/ ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: First dimreeper took offence at the scientifically supported claim that mathematics and geometrical illustrations, should overcome language difficulties with advanced Alien beings. eg; The plaques aboard the Pioneer and Voyager craft. Now he conveniently wants to suggest that octopuses can evolve into a space faring species without any reputable link to support it. 😆 And then still refuses to answer the OP question/s. 🥱 An old quote comes to mind.... "Philosophy consists very largely of one philosopher arguing that all others are jackasses. He usually proves it, and I should add that he also usually proves that he is one himself". Henry Louis Mencken. (1880-1956). Minority Report, H. L. Mencken's Notebooks. Knopf, 1956. Edited January 5, 2022 by beecee
Ken Fabian Posted January 5, 2022 Posted January 5, 2022 I like the idea of an intelligent, tool using octopoidal form, which would, of course, have to differ in many ways to octopuses as we know them. Evolve from an octopus or evolve differently, from a common cephalapod ancestor? Convergent evolution in the ocean of a distant exoplanet, that bear resemblance in form to octopuses? They wouldn't be octopuses. Quote Hunting packs roaming the ocean floor, holding stiff spines with stone points bound to them, that extended their reach, that gave them food sources their tool-less kin couldn't access. Skinspeaking silently as they hunted in the bright daytime waters, click chattering carelessly on their leisurely return, arguing about the crazy plan to make a tidal fish trap close to their communal home nest, that meant working in air. Only to get trapped in turn by a human colonist, who thought the specimen was delicious when quick-boiled with a squeeze of lemon. And those little spear-like things and the bits of braided cords, they were totally natural and nothing to indicate anything but if the Department of Interstellar Colonisation found out colonists could have their rights revoked. What spear thingies?
dimreepr Posted January 5, 2022 Posted January 5, 2022 13 hours ago, beecee said: I'm no expert on the theory of evolution, other then understanding that it is one of the few theories that are that close to "certain" as to be fact. One of the aspects I understand is that evolutionary paths are driven by need and the environment and adaptation. That is no better illustrated then the finches on the Galapagos Islands having developed different shaped beaks to take advantage of the different kinds of food available on different islands. Our understanding of evolution, so far, is because we already have the data and an excellent hypothesis that explains the it. The problem with extrapolating the hypothesis into the future is, we don't/can't have all the data... 13 hours ago, beecee said: First dimreeper took offence at the scientifically supported claim that mathematics and geometrical illustrations, should overcome language difficulties with advanced Alien beings. Not offended, just curious as to how? If the alien has a different understanding of mathematics and/or can't see the illustrations, perhaps you can explain how it's 'scientific' rather than just a best guess...
beecee Posted January 5, 2022 Posted January 5, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, dimreepr said: If the alien has a different understanding of mathematics and/or can't see the illustrations, perhaps you can explain how it's 'scientific' rather than just a best guess... Science is the best guess at any one particular time. 2+2=4 here, there, and everywhere, not withstanding your incredulity. 20 hours ago, beecee said: I'm no expert on the theory of evolution, other then understanding that it is one of the few theories that are that close to "certain" as to be fact. One of the aspects I understand is that evolutionary paths are driven by need and the environment and adaptation. That is no better illustrated then the finches on the Galapagos Islands having developed different shaped beaks to take advantage of the different kinds of food available on different islands. I have often heard the question/s asked, why don't chimps. gorillas all evolve into human. We are all Apes...like the Neanderthals, and also our cousins the orangutans, gorillas, bonobos and chimpanzees. All of us evolved from a common ancestor that lived about 14 million years ago...Those apes have been on their own line of evolution for more than 10 million years. You can't go back up that lineage and back down again. The same applies even with far more validity with octopuses. If we forget about our cousins and our first common ancestor 14 million years ago, and substitute the octopuse and where our most common ancestor is in that regard, we need to go back about 750 million years! that was a flatworm that lived on the Ocean floors and the point at which we totally separate down separate evolutionary pathways. Here's a couple of reputable links again, basically saying the above...... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2016/06/27/dear-science-why-arent-apes-evolving-into-humans/ https://eusci.org.uk/2020/06/22/an-alien-in-our-sea-a-look-at-the-intelligence-of-an-octopus/ First dimreeper took offence at the scientifically supported claim that mathematics and geometrical illustrations, should overcome language difficulties with advanced Alien beings. eg; The plaques aboard the Pioneer and Voyager craft. Now he conveniently wants to suggest that octopuses can evolve into a space faring species without any reputable link to support it. 😆 And then still refuses to answer the OP question/s. 🥱 7 hours ago, dimreepr said: Our understanding of evolution, so far, is because we already have the data and an excellent hypothesis that explains the it. The problem with extrapolating the hypothesis into the future is, we don't/can't have all the data... We certainly have a far better idea of evolution then you are giving it credit for, and specifically those ideas/theories invalidate your proposal.... it is one of the few theories that are that close to "certain" as to be fact. Edited January 5, 2022 by beecee
dimreepr Posted January 6, 2022 Posted January 6, 2022 13 hours ago, beecee said: Science is the best guess at any one particular time. 2+2=4 here, there, and everywhere, not withstanding your incredulity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_numerals https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quipu
dimreepr Posted January 6, 2022 Posted January 6, 2022 (edited) 17 hours ago, beecee said: We certainly have a far better idea of evolution then you are giving it credit for, and specifically those ideas/theories invalidate your proposal.... it is one of the few theories that are that close to "certain" as to be fact. Evolution is a fact, that I accept; what it's capable of is unknown and "that's a fact"... 😉 3 hours ago, dimreepr said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_numerals https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quipu And that's humans with the same number of digit's thinking differently about the same thing; imagine how different octopus maths would work, 8 arm's time's a hundred individually manipulable sucker's. Edited January 6, 2022 by dimreepr
beecee Posted January 6, 2022 Posted January 6, 2022 3 hours ago, dimreepr said: Evolution is a fact, that I accept; what it's capable of is unknown and "that's a fact"... 😉 You mean what its not capable of is fact :eg:Space faring octopuses. (as per my reputable links) 3 hours ago, dimreepr said: And that's humans with the same number of digit's thinking differently about the same thing; imagine how different octopus maths would work, 8 arm's time's a hundred individually manipulable sucker's. And that changes nothing re the fact that space faring octopuses, (or tomato plants) are a mythical figment of your imagination. 🤭 7 hours ago, dimreepr said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_numerals https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quipu 🙄 2+2=4 no matter how you chose to write it. But hey, cudos for at least finally giving a link supposedly supporting some of your claims. Not sure how many more pages we'll need before you give a reputable link to support your space faring octopuses.😄 Question: why are you so reluctant to answer the OP question? Is this a religious thingy? 16 minutes ago, beecee said: You mean what its not capable of is fact :eg:Space faring octopuses. (as per my reputable links) And that changes nothing re the fact that space faring octopuses, (or tomato plants) are a mythical figment of your imagination. 🤭 🙄 2+2=4 no matter how you chose to write it. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-the-universe-made-of-math-excerpt/ But hey, cudos for at least finally giving a link supposedly supporting some of your claims. Not sure how many more pages we'll need before you give a reputable link to support your space faring octopuses.😄 Question: why are you so reluctant to answer the OP question? Is this a religious thingy?
dimreepr Posted January 7, 2022 Posted January 7, 2022 19 hours ago, beecee said: You mean what its not capable of is fact :eg:Space faring octopuses. (as per my reputable links) And that changes nothing re the fact that space faring octopuses, (or tomato plants) are a mythical figment of your imagination. 🤭 🙄 2+2=4 no matter how you chose to write it. But hey, cudos for at least finally giving a link supposedly supporting some of your claims. Not sure how many more pages we'll need before you give a reputable link to support your space faring octopuses.😄 Question: why are you so reluctant to answer the OP question? Is this a religious thingy? The reason I'd love to play you at poker is, you wouldn't believe any bet I'd make/say because it's me making/saying it, no matter how often I win the pot. Your letting your bias/prejudice/excuses cloud your reason. However perfect you think our understanding of evolution is, it can predict the future in much the same way as a meteorologist can't (beyond next month). 19 hours ago, beecee said: 2+2=4 no matter how you chose to write it. If I chose to write it, £-&+4 how could you tell?
beecee Posted January 7, 2022 Posted January 7, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, dimreepr said: The reason I'd love to play you at poker is, you wouldn't believe any bet I'd make/say because it's me making/saying it, no matter how often I win the pot. Your letting your bias/prejudice/excuses cloud your reason. There's our old pot, calling the kettle black again!🤣 You continue to ignore and be silly and less then adult like with your replies, (as opposed to answers), (1) answer the OP question/s, (2) Any reference at all to any possibility of octopuses, (and/or tomatoes) becoming space faring species, and (3) Some evidence to show that mathematics would not be the most logical universal form of communication between advanced alien species. https://theconversation.com/curious-kids-could-octopuses-evolve-until-they-take-over-the-world-and-travel-to-space-156493 https://thedebrief.org/will-hyperintelligent-octopuses-take-over-the-world/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2016/06/27/dear-science-why-arent-apes-evolving-into-humans/ https://eusci.org.uk/2020/06/22/an-alien-in-our-sea-a-look-at-the-intelligence-of-an-octopus/ PS: I would if I was you, forget about playing poker, as your actions would probably result in your demise. 😆😉 8 hours ago, dimreepr said: If I chose to write it, £-&+4 how could you tell? You would probably be a candidate for some mental study. Obviously each symbol has a meaning, and you jumbling them together is simply word salad. 8 hours ago, dimreepr said: However perfect you think our understanding of evolution is, it can predict the future in much the same way as a meteorologist can't (beyond next month).I That's absolutely no reason though for anyone to hypothesis a ridiculious, near impossible (as shown) scenario, like space faring octopuses or tomatoes. And by the way, the science of meteorology are able to predict many things in advance, including the "El nino effect" that we in Australia are now experiencing, and which was forecasted early last year. Edited January 7, 2022 by beecee
beecee Posted January 7, 2022 Posted January 7, 2022 (edited) Here dimreeper, let me help you out... https://www.aquablog.ca/2015/10/why-squid-octopuses-and-cuttlefish-will-take-over-the-world/ WHY SQUID, OCTOPUSES AND CUTTLEFISH WILL TAKE OVER THE WORLD: the article concludes thus.................... Learn what you can, stay safe out there, and protect each other from the potential cephalopod uprising. Good luck. In all seriousness, we love cephalopods. Another thing you can do for these impressive animals is to be mindful of how much seafood (calamari) you eat and where it comes from. Look for sustainable seafood options, like Ocean Wise here in Canada, to ensure you’re being as respectful of these animals as possible. You just never know about that whole “seeking retribution” thing. 🤣 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/through-the-eye-of-an-octopus conclusion: "Octopuses, naked and vulnerable, took to dens, as early humans took to caves. Like humans, they became versatile foragers, using a wide repertoire of stalking and killing techniques. To avoid exposure, they developed spatial sense and learned to cover their hunting grounds methodically and efficiently. Mather and O'Dor found that the Bermudan O. vulgaris spends just 7 percent of its time hunting; Australian giant cuttlefish spend 3 percent. In short, octopuses came to resemble us. Their hunting done, they huddle safely in their dens, a bit like early humans around campfires. "You have to wonder what they think about while they're tucked away," says O'Dor. Do they muse on the cruel turns of evolution, which have left them all dressed up with big brains but with no place to go and little time to use them? See the online article "Octopuses Are Smart Suckers" by Roland Anderson and Jennifer Mather: is.dal.ca/~ceph/TCP/smarts.html. James Wood's Cephalopod page has scientific articles, a wealth of information about different species, and excellent FAQ pages: www.dal.ca/~ceph/TCP." :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: And of course it must be recognised that Octopuses, Squid, Cuttlefish etc are great sources of food in many cultures. https://www.webmd.com/diet/health-benefits-octopus#1 Potential Health Benefits of Octopus Octopus is rich in vitamins and minerals. It’s also low in fat, making it a great source of complete protein for people trying to manage their weight. This can depend on how it’s prepared, however. Frying it or cooking octopus in butter or oil can add extra fat and calorie content to your meal. Some added health benefits of including octopus in your diet may include: Octopus is an excellent source of omega-3 fatty acids, "good fats" linked to a range of heart-healthy benefits. Omega-3s can lower your blood pressure and slow the buildup of plaque in your arteries, reducing stress on the heart. This research also shows that omega-3s can: Reduce triglycerides, fats in your blood that can increase the risk of stroke, heart attack, and heart disease Lower the risk of developing an irregular heartbeat Have an anti-inflammatory response, which can reduce your risk for chronic illnesses including heart disease. Edited January 7, 2022 by beecee
dimreepr Posted January 8, 2022 Posted January 8, 2022 16 hours ago, beecee said: That's absolutely no reason though for anyone to hypothesis a ridiculious, near impossible (as shown) scenario, like space faring octopuses or tomatoes. And by the way, the science of meteorology are able to predict many things in advance, including the "El nino effect" that we in Australia are now experiencing, and which was forecasted early last year. A meteorologist can predict tomorrow's weather extremely accurately and next week's weather quite accurately and next year's weather not very accurately and next decade, not at all; and that's just part of the equation for evolution to predict the next branch of the tree, for an octopus. Please try to ignore the fact that it's me that posted this, and just read what's written.
Genady Posted January 8, 2022 Posted January 8, 2022 19 minutes ago, dimreepr said: ... part of the equation for evolution to predict the next branch of the tree ... Is there a way to predict a next branch of the tree in biological evolution?
dimreepr Posted January 8, 2022 Posted January 8, 2022 1 minute ago, Genady said: Is there a way to predict a next branch of the tree in biological evolution? No. 15 hours ago, beecee said: conclusion: "Octopuses, naked and vulnerable, took to dens, as early humans took to caves. Like humans, they became versatile foragers, using a wide repertoire of stalking and killing techniques. To avoid exposure, they developed spatial sense and learned to cover their hunting grounds methodically and efficiently. Mather and O'Dor found that the Bermudan O. vulgaris spends just 7 percent of its time hunting; Australian giant cuttlefish spend 3 percent. In short, octopuses came to resemble us. Their hunting done, they huddle safely in their dens, a bit like early humans around campfires. "You have to wonder what they think about while they're tucked away," says O'Dor. Do they muse on the cruel turns of evolution, which have left them all dressed up with big brains but with no place to go and little time to use them? See the online article "Octopuses Are Smart Suckers" by Roland Anderson and Jennifer Mather: is.dal.ca/~ceph/TCP/smarts.html. James Wood's Cephalopod page has scientific articles, a wealth of information about different species, and excellent FAQ pages: www.dal.ca/~ceph/TCP." I used octopuses, primarily, because you recognised their intelligence and I thought that similarity might overcome your assumption of authority; humanity is just part of, not more than (read my signature)... 1
beecee Posted January 8, 2022 Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, dimreepr said: A meteorologist can predict tomorrow's weather extremely accurately and next week's weather quite accurately and next year's weather not very accurately and next decade, not at all; and that's just part of the equation for evolution to predict the next branch of the tree, for an octopus. Please try to ignore the fact that it's me that posted this, and just read what's written. It's rather hard to ignore your continued strawmen...... again, the science of meteorology are able to predict many things in advance, including the "El nino effect" that we in Australia are now experiencing, and which was forecasted early last year. 7 hours ago, dimreepr said: I used octopuses, primarily, because you recognised their intelligence and I thought that similarity might overcome your assumption of authority; humanity is just part of, not more than (read my signature)... another strawman. 😏🥱 Sad. 7 hours ago, Genady said: Is there a way to predict a next branch of the tree in biological evolution? No, but there is very good reason and logic to be able to exclude certain paths...eg: Octopuses and tomato plants evolving to space faring civilisations. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Some rather bizzare evolutionary paths, or lack there of. Still nothing close to space faring octopuses! https://www.boredpanda.com/strange-deep-sea-creatures-photography-roman-fedortsov/?all_submissions=true #1 "Gorgonocephalus Is A Genus Of Marine Basket Stars In The Class Ophiuroidea" #2 Many more, just as weird, just as wonderful, at link...... Anyone for a sea cheeseburger with teeth! Edited January 8, 2022 by beecee
beecee Posted January 8, 2022 Posted January 8, 2022 Heaps more where they came from, but here is one more that is somewhat relevant anyway....... "North Atlantic Octopus. Sometimes Called The Spoonarm Octopus (Thanks To The Curly Tips Of Its Arms)"
dimreepr Posted January 9, 2022 Posted January 9, 2022 16 hours ago, beecee said: Heaps more where they came from, but here is one more that is somewhat relevant anyway....... "North Atlantic Octopus. Sometimes Called The Spoonarm Octopus (Thanks To The Curly Tips Of Its Arms)" Believe it or not, your not telling me anything I don't already know; I have google too... 😉 You seem to make a habbit of missing the point; I wonder what advantage a six legged mutant octopus would have, if only we hadn't eaten it (I'll leave you to google that, I can't be arsed). 17 hours ago, beecee said: 23 hours ago, dimreepr said: I used octopuses, primarily, because you recognised their intelligence and I thought that similarity might overcome your assumption of authority; humanity is just part of, not more than (read my signature)... another strawman. 😏🥱 Sad. How is that a strawman? I haven't said you've said anything and your condescension is reasonable grounds to assume... 17 hours ago, beecee said: No, but there is very good reason and logic to be able to exclude certain paths...eg: Octopuses and tomato plants evolving to space faring civilisations. No, but...
beecee Posted January 9, 2022 Posted January 9, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, dimreepr said: You seem to make a habbit of missing the point; Damn!!! there goes that bloody pot again, yelling to the kettle that he's black! 😄 I'll leave you to your dreams and philosophy matey OK? 😉 ps: Not sure what your irrelevant video is about, and really not that interested. Don't even know the sheila called Vicky Pollard and likewise am not interested enough to google it, or watch the video. You enjoy it though, if it makes you feel better.🤣 Edited January 9, 2022 by beecee
beecee Posted January 10, 2022 Posted January 10, 2022 https://www.quora.com/Could-octopuses-ever-evolve-into-a-sapient-species-Why-or-why-not Joel Reid: , Science teacherUpdated Jun 24, 2019 · Upvoted by Matan Shelomi: , Organismic and Evolutionary Biologist and David Bahry: , MSc Evolutionary Biology, Carleton University (2021) "No, octopuses are unlikely to evolve into a sapient species … but the reason why is sort of sad. Octopuses are indeed highly intelligent creatures, but they suffer a drawback in their evolution that is so severe that they lack the ability to develop their intelligence past a single generation … they have extremely short lives. An octopus has one purpose in life … babies. A father will die weeks after mating. A mother octopus will starve herself to death rather than leave her brood alone even for a second … and this is actually the most common form of death for an octopus. This means that as the mother dies then the offspring are born, meaning they never transmit their knowledge to the next generation. Octopuses that do not reproduce will soon die anyway. The life expectancy for a healthy, safe, octopus who does not have a brood to watch over reaches up to 5 years. And that is the maximum range. The reality is that octopuses simply do not live long enough, nor have time to pass on their knowledge. Unless they evolve longer lives then they are stuck where they are in terms of intelligence".
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