Childhood Immunizations...should they be mandatory?

[Celeste22]

How many of you feel that childhood immunizations should be absolutely mandatory? Or should it be left up to the personal choice and/or the beliefs of the parent(s)?

 

I have always thought it should be a personal choice, but I'm seriously rethinking this view.

 

My reason:

 

As I have posted in General Medicine, I have been infected with Bordatella Pertussis, otherwise known as "whooping cough" for about 10 weeks now.

My father has had it for 12 weeks, my mother had it for 6, my boyfriend for about 8 weeks now, albeit, his case is not as extreme.

 

Because we became infected through an unvaccinated child, we feel that our contracting the Pertussis aka whooping cough, could have been entirely avoided in our case.

NOTE: The immunizations/vaccinations for Pertussis that we get as children only last 5 to 10 years after the last vaccination, at this time, we are left with little or no protection. Thus, my families ability to be infected with the Pertussis bacteria .

 

For those that are laymen to the effects and course of the Bordatella Pertussis bacteria: it actually produces toxins that paralyze the cilia and causes extreme inflammation in the lungs and trachea, which in turn causes copous amounts of mucus, wheezing, etc and ultimately, the fits of the extreme coughing. (My father and I actually had momentarily bouts of loss of consciousness due to the cough) Complications include, pneumonia, seizures, encephalopathy from hypoxia, pneumothorax, epistaxis, subdural hematomas, hernias, urinary inconsistancy, rectal prolapse, otis media, anorexia, dehydration, and rib fractures. The course of the disease can last as long as 4 months in some, with the paroxysmal bouts of coughing lingering longer still.

Thankfully, pertussis is not likely to be AS serious, nor as deadly for adults. (Although, I would have to disagree with the disregard some doctors and medical communities appear to have concerning it's possible and obvious serious effects on adults. Dad had complications, ie secondary infection, pneumonia, I fractured my ribs coughing)

 

Anyway, after numberous doctor visits, different diagnoses, ie acute bronchitis, aspiration pneumonia, etc etc. and several antibiotics, cough medicine, the doctors finally confirmed it was pertussis after I fractured my ribs in several places from the notorious coughing spasms it causes. By this time, the antibiotic of choice would not have helped.

 

Source of our infection:

The daughter of an family friend from out of town visited my parents with her 4 children, all of which are 10 and under. All 4 children were coughing and as we found out 3 days ago, her youngest, who is 1 yrs. old, was ultimately hospitalized for several days after turning blue while coughing and was confirmed positive as carrying the Bordatella pertussis bacteria.

 

Due to some of her religious and basic "veggan" beliefs, She does NOT believe in or allow her children to receive childhood immunizations/vaccinations.

 

What "her belief's" have cost us even with excellent health insurance:

 

Total amount of regular doctors visits: $210.00

5 Lung x-rays total and their interpretations: $160.00

ER visit for extreme wheezing: $100.00

ER visit for my cough induced fractured ribs: $100.00

Prescription totals: $250.00

Over the counter aids/neccesities: $350.00

 

Because pertussis is so highly contagious and the cough is so severe, going to work is nearly impossible, risky for others and ill advised.

I have missed a total of 36 days of work. Total; $4200.00

My boyfriend missed 5 days of work: $1200.00

Thank goodness my parents are retired!!

 

Missing out on ALL summer activities ie, camping, boating, a family reunion, etc.; PRICELESS

 

TOTAL COST OUT OF POCKET: $6570.00

 

I have also had to ask friends and neighbors numberous times to pick up groceries, to go pay bills etc.

Since fracturing my ribs during a coughing spasm, I've also had to have a friend come 3 times to help me lift my 123 pound dog into the truck and accompany me to get his chemo. I've had to ask a friend or my daughter numberous times to help me clean, and most embarrassing of all, I had to ask a friend for the first week after fracturing my ribs, to come help me wash my hair everyday.

 

After the hell we have been through these past 3 or so months, I can only imagine the possible devastation this disease could have on others too, especially those with no health insurance, no money saved for missed work, having serious complications that require hospitalization and worse yet, complications leading to death.

 

I have always believed that how we live our personal live's should be an personal choice as long as we are not harming others, especially our children in any way.

But, as I am seeing now, those personal choices even when made with the best intentions, don't always hold others out of harms way.

 

Like I said, I'm seriously rethinking and in a sense, challenging my own views on whether a parent(s) should have the right to refuse having their children immunized/vaccinated.

 

Although I honor her beliefs and I know she intended no harm, I can't help but think about the old saying...

 

"The road to hell has been paved with the best intentions."

[zyncod]

Not only are unvaccinated children endangering others, they're relying on the "herd immunity" from all the other vaccinated children in order not to get sick themselves. I doubt that vegan beliefs stretch so far in most cases as to want to go back to 19th century child mortality rates, so not vaccinating your children is at best hypocritical.

 

Regarding the thimerosal-autism "link" and the remote chance of immune-related complications, I can understand the desire to protect your children, but it is not fair to others (even if it is not that dangerous for your children themselves) not to get your children vaccinated if they are coming in contact with other children on a regular basis.

 

I don't think that vaccinations should be required, per se, but I definitely think that vaccinations should be a prerequisite for children attending public school. After all, like driving, going to school is a privilege, not a right, and it is within the government's rights to require certain things of children attending public schools. And I speak as somebody who has to get these vaccinations every year.

[Celeste22]

Not only are unvaccinated children endangering others, they're relying on the "herd immunity" from all the other vaccinated children in order not to get sick themselves. I doubt that vegan beliefs stretch so far in most cases as to want to go back to 19th century child mortality rates, so not vaccinating your children is at best hypocritical.

 

Agreed. I hope I didn't come across as if I was implying anything negative about being 'vegan'. I don't know all the commitments of this way of life, I only know that the womens mother stated that "her vegan lifestyle doesn't allow for impurities or additives, especially when it's in vaccinations etc.

I can only assume it might be the thimerosal avoidance.

 

After all, like driving, going to school is a privilege, not a right, and it is within the government's rights to require certain things of children attending public schools. And I speak as somebody who has to get these vaccinations every year.

 

I agree also. Very valid point.

[rakuenso]

eventually those idiots (vegans) will be weeded out by natural selection. Meanwhile I agree as well that it wouldn't hurt to enforce mandatory vaccinations

[Pangloss]

This has come up again in connection with cervical cancer. The drug companies are pushing for making the vaccinations mandatory.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9873260/

 

I have a problem with that. If the argument is "because it's cheaper for society over the long run" (i.e. caring for cancer patients down the road), then we might as well stomp on everything. Why allow smoking? Fatty foods? Riding a motorcycle without a helmet? Arguably ALL freedoms impinge upon someone else at some point or degree.

[Molotov]

I don't agree with it being mandatory but more people should be educated about the benefits of immunizing their children.

 

Also the preservative thimerserol should be replaced with a less toxic alternative .

[CanadaAotS]

I believe all minors attending public schooling should have mandatory immunity shots.

 

despite this I was never vaccinated in grade 9 for turberculosis (I think that's what it was). Only 'cause I forgot to hand in my form lol.

[Mokele]

All vaccinations should be mandatory, on account of herd immunity. See, vaccines aren't 100% effective, in fact not even close. But if you vaccinate *everybody*, the virus will have so few hosts that it will be unable to effectively spread in the population, will die out, and will be unable to re-invade.

 

However, if a sizable portion (how sizable depends on a variety of factors) of the populace refuses vaccinations, the phenomenon of herd immunity vanishes, and the disease can become established again, even attacking those who had vaccinations but whose vaccinations didn't take hold.

 

As such, you cannot evaluate it as a one person system, but realize that if an individual refuses, they aren't just putting themselves at risk, but everyone else too. And excellent article on precisely this can be found here.

 

Personally, I think the government is well within its rights, and indeed its duty to protect society, to mandate vaccinations.

 

Mokele

[ecoli]

The problem is, if the government makes it mandatory then they have to pay for it... at least for people who can't afford it.

[jdurg]

Actually, where I live you MUST be vaccinated for a large number of things before you're even ALLOWED into school. Before going into kindergarten, or middle school, or high school, or college, I had to show proof of immunization otherwise I would not be allowed to go. So it is a requirement in some spots.

 

For the reasons behind why Vegans may not approve of immunizations, it's not really because of the immunization (that's more of an Amish concernt), but it's because of how the vaccines are developed. If you've ever gotten a vaccine for something, you should recall how they ask if you are allergic to eggs. This is because the vaccine is grown inside an egg and there will sometimes be remnant egg proteins in the vaccine. If you're allergic to eggs, this can cause a huge problem. Vegans will not touch ANYTHING that involves animals. That's meat, cheese, dairy, animal tested products, eggs, etc. So because the vaccine required the use of eggs, the strict Vegans will not accept its use.

[Pangloss]

I don't have a problem with mandatory vaccination of communicable diseases. I do have a problem with mandatory gets applied for reasons that have to do with long-term healthcare costs. Cheap insurance premiums is not a guaranteed constitutional right, and should not become one, lest we all end up policing each other for every donut or French Fry we see someone eat.

[Douglas]

Anything that can reasonably be construed as a public health hazard, individual rights do NOT apply.

 

This does not mean "2nd hand smoke", helmetless motorcyclists and similar violations of individual rights.

 

Soooo Celeste, I'm on your team in terms of contageous diseases.

[Rebiu]

My four-year-old son has autism. He does not talk. He started to talk and would stop after each round of vaccinations. I have spent over $15,000 in medical treatment because the medical community will not admit is knows what is causing all this autism and therefore insurance will not pay. I assure you the cost will be much higher than this if and when he has recovered. My father stopped talking when he was three and the number of vaccinations was considerable less when he was vaccinated. He recovered his speech but was dyslexic and had learning problems.

 

The only improvement we have seen in my son is when we have followed the medical advice of those that claim the vaccinations are the cause. I you think your illness and medical bills compare to the loss of my sons ability talk and interact beyond what a baby does then I sacrifice you children not mine.

 

Now if you had a child that stopped talking when he was vaccinated and were told you next one would have to get vaccinated what would you do?

[tejaswini]

of corse vaccination should be made mandatory. i mean atleast in countries like india where any amount of education given to the people is just a waste . people here are so iggnorant that even after telling them about the benifits of vaccination they will not act.they think they know more than the doctor or probably that god will always keep them safe.