Strange rocky material fell from the sky with odd surface features and microbiology inside it

[Bazil_SW]

Hello all,

I live in Birmingham, UK.  At 10pm on 17th July 2020 an aerial fireball object fell from the sky, broke apart near our house, and showered rocky fragments on the garden and drive.   We heard it happen and 2 CCTV caught it.  I've been finding more pieces since, and have had quite a bit of analysis done on it, including SEM & EDX, petrographic, and bulk composition, and still don't know what the material is!  

Can anyone weigh in what the odd biological structures are that I'm seeing on/inside some peices, several images below?

I have loads more details to share if anyone wants more!

Any help is greatly appriciated.

Cheers!

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Some more general information for context

CCTV video hosted on imgur.  Ours slowed: https://i.imgur.com/WRx4eno.mp4, the other from 0.1 miles away captures a reflection of the fireball in the sky: https://i.imgur.com/21GvZaD.mp4

Composit image of the differences per frame of our CCTV shows the object breaking apart:

The object partially assembled:



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Really Odd Surface Features

One particular fragment that was seen to bounce off the house in the footage was found the next morning (<12hrs later), still smelt burnt like hot road tar, and was not exposed to water/rain/noistures, has really odd features on the surface, does any know what these are?

- the 'critters' (for want of a better word!) with appendiges- also numerous and apparently 'splattered', mashed, or burst open, on the surface and in the pockets?

  

- the white mushroom-like structures - numerous on the surface and about ~0.2mm dia.

 

- the glassy spheres with longitudinal ridges that have been seen to 'burst' open -  numerous on the surface

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Large Structure

Recently I found a largish piece about 1.5" across, that has an odd biological looking structure on it, which is rubbery and bendy in texture, and has been seen to change over time, images attached,  Any ides what this is?



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The material also contains (apparently) embedded microbiology, such as diatoms and others, on fresh fracture faces, a few of many images attached.  Unfortunately the images are not great quality.  This is the fragment found on the drive the next morning.




Diatoms:


 

Ring-like structure:

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Filamentious structure:

Others (acritarchs?):

[beecee]

Uh oh!! The movie "The Blob" comes to mind!!😉

 

All joking aside, as you saw it explode in the sky, it is termed a bolide and the pieces you found are meteorites. The "biological" structures maybe from some orgasm or bacteria picked up in the atmosphere.

In 1984 a meteorite was found in the Antarctic and labeled ALH84001. This has been validated as originating from Mars, and also had what some thought to be some sort of biological structure imbedded within.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Hills_84001  As yet, I don't believe it has been fully substantiated as a valid Martian fossilized organism...debate [I think] continues.

Edited August 24, 2021 by beecee

[Bazil_SW]

😂 Aye, I know, I was more than a little alarmed when I started studying it and the glassy sphere thing burst!

I also suspect the biological structures on the outside were collected 'on the way in' and have discussed the possibility with some local (retired) Professors from Sheffield & Cardiff who researched biological structures in the upper atmosphere.

Yes, I remember the Allan Hills announcements in the 90s and the controversy it caused, certainly one of the structures I've found inside looks very similar.  I'm also aware of the Polonnaruwa stones that fell in Sri Lanka 2012 and the (controversial) findings there. 

I've really struggled to get the materials investigated by any meteorite or biology experts because it does not look like a typical meteorite, do you know who I could approach about it? 

[beecee]

6 minutes ago, Bazil_SW said:

I've really struggled to get the materials investigated by any meteorite or biology experts because it does not look like a typical meteorite, do you know who I could approach about it? 

No not really, but we do have some knowlegable folk who are probably crawling out of bed now, and they maybe able to help. 

 

ps: Thanks for your well presented thread...nice photos.

[Bufofrog]

5 minutes ago, Bazil_SW said:

I've really struggled to get the materials investigated by any meteorite or biology experts because it does not look like a typical meteorite, do you know who I could approach about it?

What do you mean you struggled?  Have you tried and the expert said it is not a meteor?

You can contact the geology department at a college near you and let them know you have a suspected meteorite fragment and would like them to look at it, I'm sure they would be happy to see it.  Don't tell them you think there are fossils in it or they may think you are a crank and will not be interested.

[joigus]

1 hour ago, beecee said:

The "biological" structures maybe from some orgasm or bacteria picked up in the atmosphere.

(my emphasis.)

Huh? The atmosphere sounds like a fun place --I don't mean the bacteria.  

 

[Bazil_SW]

That's right, I've kept the (possible) fossils & biology out of the discussions with the meteorite experts, the Natural History Museum (London), and anyone else I've approached about the 'nature' of the material, and believe you me I have approached a lot of people over the last year, from all over the world.  The answer is always either: 'it's slag' or 'that's interesting, but not a meteorite, probably some sort of industrial waste', or some variant on that theme, so I have paid for several analyses myself to try and better understand the material.

To date,

- SEM study at Warwick Uni to get an overall feel for the material's elemental composition at the surface (and to confirm several of the larger pieces were actually the same thing).  Interestingly they took SEM and EDX results for some diatoms on the inside of a smooth feature which appears to consist of Kyanite & Muscovite (both metormorphic assemblies).  It may be interesting to note that the diatoms do not contain (measureable) amounts of Nitrogen:

 

- Bulk composition by EDX and XRPD as below:

- Thin slice petrographic analysis: short version is, the material has some meteoritic characteristics though there is always a 'but' when compared to existing carbonaceous chondrites (and others) as it's not comparable.  They could not conclude what it actually is, industrial waste or otherwise.  Interestingly though it fell at the start of the Perseids shower (which caused by the debris field of comet Switf-Tuttle) and there are no confirmed cometary meteorites in the collection to compare it - at least that has been one of my arguments.  That and the fact it fell out of the sky!

Since I have gotten little traction with the materials side of it, I thought I would approach it from the other (biology) side, hence this post.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Bazil_SW

[Bufofrog]

49 minutes ago, Bazil_SW said:

The answer is always either: 'it's slag' or 'that's interesting, but not a meteorite, probably some sort of industrial waste'

Well I guess you got your answer, mystery solved.  [shrug]

[Bazil_SW]

Case closed then! .... If only that explanation satisfied the evidence.  Most of them only saw pictures not the actual stuff, so it would be easy to say, so really that sentance should read "the reply is always either" 😉 .  And that does not explain the oddities observed in the pictures in this thread

 

 

[Bufofrog]

45 minutes ago, Bazil_SW said:

Case closed then! .... If only that explanation satisfied the evidence.

Look at this and I think you will agree, if you're open minded, that it is just slag..

[Bazil_SW]

Thanks for the link, I am fully aware of what slag is.  I have the material, and spent a lot of time analysing it, the density typ. <1 g/cm3 (slags are >2), when you compare slags from different parts of the UK (physical pieces I have collected on my travels), this is nothing alike when you hold it in your hand.  It's not slag or industrial wastes for all the reasons and analysis already mentioned in previous posts.

 

This conversation was intended to focus on the biological structures and surface oddities (biological?) that have been found, it's input on that aspect I am curious about from this forum.

[TheVat]

4 hours ago, beecee said:

All joking aside, as you saw it explode in the sky, it is termed a bolide and the pieces you found are meteorites. The "biological" structures maybe from some orgasm or bacteria picked up in the atmosphere.

Biological structures have been known to arise from some orgasms.

Could some meteorites  come in at a very shallow angle and therefore skip along,  picking up some material from the ground, then bouncing?   ....or even skipping like a stone does on the surface of a lake or sea?  If so,  this might result in unusual deposits on the surface.   

 

[studiot]

2 hours ago, TheVat said:

Biological structures have been known to arise from some orgasms.

Could some meteorites  come in at a very shallow angle and therefore skip along,  picking up some material from the ground, then bouncing?   ....or even skipping like a stone does on the surface of a lake or sea?  If so,  this might result in unusual deposits on the surface.   

 

Here is an interesting discussion about the effect of entry angle.

It is intended for rocket capsules, but also discusses meteor(ites).

 

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/cami/library/online_libraries/aerospace_medicine/tutorial/media/iii.4.1.7_returning_from_space.pdf

 

@Bazil_SW

I see you are a new member of 7 hours standing. Welcome.

Just to warn you that new members are allowed only 5 posts in the first 24 hours.

This is nothing personal, just a very effective measure against spammers who try to flood sites like this with junk.

After 24 hours the restriction ends.

 

If you really need to say something before that the private message system can be used.

Edited August 24, 2021 by studiot

[zapatos]

5 hours ago, Bazil_SW said:

Case closed then! .... If only that explanation satisfied the evidence.  Most of them only saw pictures not the actual stuff, so it would be easy to say, so really that sentance should read "the reply is always either" 😉 .  And that does not explain the oddities observed in the pictures in this thread

 

 

Has anyone at all suggested it is a meteorite other than you? Even after the analysis?

[beecee]

8 hours ago, joigus said:

(my emphasis.)

Huh? The atmosphere sounds like a fun place --I don't mean the bacteria.  

 

😁 Trust you to pick up that faux-pas!

5 hours ago, TheVat said:

Biological structures have been known to arise from some orgasms.  

My error, I had other things on my mind! 😉

[beecee]

4 hours ago, zapatos said:

Has anyone at all suggested it is a meteorite other than you? Even after the analysis?

Yep, the first obvious, expert necessary proviso. I took the OP on face value.

[Bazil_SW]

16 hours ago, studiot said:

Here is an interesting discussion about the effect of entry angle.

It is intended for rocket capsules, but also discusses meteor(ites).

 

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/cami/library/online_libraries/aerospace_medicine/tutorial/media/iii.4.1.7_returning_from_space.pdf

 

@Bazil_SW

I see you are a new member of 7 hours standing. Welcome.

Just to warn you that new members are allowed only 5 posts in the first 24 hours.

This is nothing personal, just a very effective measure against spammers who try to flood sites like this with junk.

After 24 hours the restriction ends.

 

If you really need to say something before that the private message system can be used.

 

Yes, I hit the limit! Thanks for sharing and the shout out.  I've not read it all yet, but I remember the over / undershoot element from playing Frontier Elite on my Amiga 600 in the 90s 😂

The idea a body could pass through the atmosphere, collect some biological material, then land somewhere else is one mechanism proposed for panspermia - there was an article about it earlier this year or later last, particularly in reference to Venus, I recall.

 

 

15 hours ago, zapatos said:

Has anyone at all suggested it is a meteorite other than you? Even after the analysis?

The answer to that is nuanced.  I don't plan to name drop, but yes since very early on I've been liaising with a few retired Professors in the fields of panspermia, astro and microbiology, and based on:

•  the circumstances of its arrival and that UK Mon also link 2 other fireball sightings to my report (so there is corroborating evidence that something fell from the sky that night)
•  the unusual nature of the material (in particular its structure and low density) which is similar to material previously studied by those people and demonstrated (but not widely accepted) to be extraterrestrial, likely cometary, in nature
•  surface features which could suggest 'collected' biological structures from the atmosphere, also previously studied by those people
•  and what has been found inside, also similar to that studied previously by those people and demonstrated (but not widely accepted) to be extraterrestrial
   

The suggestion has been that it's from out there somewhere, or at the very least has passed through the atmosphere.  
 

I've approached several currently active academic geologists/volcanic and many meteorite experts, and to date none have performed analytical analysis on the material, and only one (academic meteorite expert) has had a cursory glance at it under an optical microscope. Their replies, based usually on pictures only, are the material is probably slag or industrial waste, but I have it from numerous academic experts (currently active) in those fields that it's not and that particularly microbiology, like diatoms, would be destroyed in the production of such materials, and would not be present as they have been found.  As I have gained more information through my own privately funded analyses, two things have happened: it's become more unusual, but also more unlike any existing meteorite, which has succeeded in strengthening the argument from the (many) meteorite experts I've approached, though a few do admit the material is unusual.  One specifically commented that seeing Kyanite & Muscovite (metamorphic assemblies) on something with such low density (typ. <1 g/cm3) is certainly unusual.

I've tried a few avenues for analysis that can confirm the origin, namely Triple oxygen isotope and Cosmic Ray Exposure but these are very specialised and the keys to those kingdoms are, it seems, held by the meteorite experts.  I am also trying to source radiocarbon dating in parallel, I've tried a few places with little joy, anyone know a company, UK or US or anywhere?

It being extraterrestrial (maybe cometary?) material is still my working hypothesis, primarily because it currently doesn't fit other boxes either - but I will follow the evidence.

One suggestion, by the petrographic team, is that this could the burned/altered remains of part of an artificial satellite that re-entered, which might explain the 'collected' materials and lack of similarity to meteorites.  They suggested it based on the very high carbon content and that it might have started life as something made from graphite.  I am not sure if that explains the biological elements inside it, or the apparent metamorphic  assemblies that have been observed, though. 

 

In any case all of the above is why I'm now looking at what information can be gained from the biological element(s).

Edited August 25, 2021 by Bazil_SW

[studiot]

53 minutes ago, Bazil_SW said:

Yes, I hit the limit! Thanks for sharing and the shout out.  I've not read it all yet, but I remember the over / undershoot element from playing Frontier Elite on my Amiga 600 in the 90s 😂

We try to be helpful and encourage genuine members.

 

You say Birmingham ?

I don't know if there was any connection to this event

 

Winchcombe is not far from Bham.

[Bazil_SW]

2 minutes ago, studiot said:

We try to be helpful and encourage genuine members.

 

You say Birmingham ?

I don't know if there was any connection to this event

 

Winchcombe is not far from Bham.

 

Aye, Birmingham, UK.  That was a very interesting event but it took place about 7 months later.  Relatively speaking, it was an 'easy' win for the experts because the fireball was captured by a lot of cameras (UK Mon and general 'civilians') and pieces were found quickly afterwards and 'easily' confirmed as meteoritic chondrite, ableit a rare type - it ticked all the boxes.  The difficulty I've had, is my stuff doesn't! 

This team have an interesting piece of it (www.eaaro.org.uk) and when I spoke to their director about a month ago, he was really keen to investigate a chunk of my material, but I've not heard back since.

[joigus]

Number-one step should be dating the rock, I think.

For dating rocks in the order of billions y.o. a trusted method is based on ratios U/Pb in zircon crystals. If the rock is a meteoroid, it should be as old as the solar system.

https://www.amnh.org/learn-teach/curriculum-collections/earth-inside-and-out/zircon-chronology-dating-the-oldest-material-on-earth

[Bazil_SW]

10 minutes ago, joigus said:

Number-one step should be dating the rock, I think.

For dating rocks in the order of billions y.o. a trusted method is based on ratios U/Pb in zircon crystals. If the rock is a meteoroid, it should be as old as the solar system.

https://www.amnh.org/learn-teach/curriculum-collections/earth-inside-and-out/zircon-chronology-dating-the-oldest-material-on-earth

Yes I'm leaning that way.  I'll send the 2 Drs mentioned in the article an email, but again it sounds like a very specialized process, rather than something that can be bought 'over-the-counter'.  I'm hoping to get a radiocarbon dating, as more the conventional method, but even that is proving difficult, and whilst it might not work for very old stuff, if they can get a date from it at all, that tells me something (that it's almost certainly of terrestrial origin).  

[Bazil_SW]

Hello All,

I live in Birmingham, UK.  For the last year I've been investigating some unusual rocky material that fell from the sky as a fireball on 17th July 2020.  We heard it happen and 2 CCTV caught it.

 

The material is highly carbonaceous, low density (typ <1g/cm3), porous, and black on the inside, brown on the outside.  I've found the outside turns brown when cooling from red hot temperatures, by the formation of brown crystals.  It appears to contain a number of metamorphic assemblies such as Kyanite and Muscovite, possibly Epidote, and the bulk composition is as below. 

 

I've had a petrographic analysis done, some images below, but the general findings to date are:

 

- meteorite: The material has some meteoritic characteristics, but can not be a matched to any existing sample in the collections.  (Interestingly though it fell at the start of the Perseids and there are no confirmed cometary meteorites to compare it to)

- industrial waste / slag: confirmed by several academic experts of such materials that it's not

- volcanic: confirmed by several academic experts of such materials that it's not

- other: TBC, one suggestion was a piece of burned/altered artificial satellite that fell to earth

 

The further the investigation, I'd really like to to determine its ultimate origin and have been trying for:

 

- Triple oxygen isotope analysis

- Cosmic Ray Exposure analysis

- Radiocarbon or other suitable material dating analysis

 

With little joy.  Does anyone know who might be able to help with any of these?  In the UK, or anywhere in the world?

 

I have lots more images and info to share if needed.

 

Cheers!

 

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Some images and details for context

 

Some of the larger fragments

 

 

 

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Outside turns brown on cooling from red hot temperatures

 

 

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Close up of some surface crystals and a really odd feature, not seen to change over time

 

 

 

 

 

 

Close up of the first piece picked up the next morning, and some of the unusual features on it

 

 

White mushroom-like structures - numerous on the surface

 

 

Maroon Spheres - also numerous on the surface

 

 

 

Glassy extrusions and structures

 

 

 

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Possible Kyanaite and Muscrovite

 

 

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Bulk Composition

 

 

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Some thin slice images, 10x objective + 16x eyepiece

Some of the characteristics the petrographic analysis determined as 'meteorite-like' was the presence of chondrules, but these were found to be empty and expected to be filled with olivine, serpentine and other Mg-Fe silicates.  They also commented on the angular cooling textures (maybe Widmanstatten pattern?) observed and that cooling textures like these are observed in meteorites. however, they are formed in metal alloys, rather than silicates.

 

 

[Bazil_SW]

Something I forgot in the OP (there's so much!) was some oddities in a surface pocket of a fragment found in the garden.

They glinted in the light, at first I thought they were gold, but when I extracted them they structurally  lost shape.  SEM and EDX composition results show they're possibly biological?  Maybe interesting that there's no detectable nitrogen here either.

[swansont]

!

Moderator Note

Similar threads merged

 

[studiot]

@Bazil_SW

I looked at you two videos but could not determine very much.

In particular I could not determine the trajectory of your object.

Did you actually see it fall ?

(Some of the objects in the article I linked to were actually witnessed 'dropping out of the sky)

Can you say if it fell more or less straight down or if it came in at some flat trajectory angle or what ?