Growing "true seed" ... [botany]

[Externet]

Some trees/plants are called 'true seed something' grow; as peaches, a seed from the supermarket bought peach will produce a 'true peach'.    Some others as avocado, apple, do not yield a fruit exact as its planted seed parent.

What is the botany 'category' or 'family' or 'genus' or its 'clasification' name for one or the other ?  As to know if one fruit produces exact same genetic fruit; or needs to be grafted ?

Which name here explains/defines it ? Example is for pear:

Scientific classification
Kingdom:	Plantae
Clade:	Tracheophytes
Clade:	Angiosperms
Clade:	Eudicots
Clade:	Rosids
Order:	Rosales
Family:	Rosaceae
Subfamily:	Amygdaloideae
Tribe:	Maleae
Subtribe:	Malinae
Genus:	Pyrus

[Peterkin]

Grafting is the practice of cutting the top off one plant and fusing it to the root of another plant. Most commercial fruit trees are grafted, because the one that bears abundant, tasty, attractive fruit is not very hardy or disease tolerant. So it's grafted onto the root of a distant relative that is tough, but doesn't produce good fruit. This has nothing to do with the seed, which is entirely from the scion, or fruiting part of the tree.  

Most commercial fruit is hybrid, which means it's a cross of two different varieties, that have been bred on purpose, for desirable characteristics. The seed of hybrids may be sterile, like a mule, or may germinate and resemble one of the parents, but rarely turns out like the fruit from which it came. That supermarket peach may give you a true peach - though not like the one you ate - or something quite different or no fruit at all.

That taxonomy of a pear tree doesn't specify whether it's self-pollinating or needs another pear tree near by to bear fruit. For man-made plant hybrids there are rules of classification according to their parentage. The root-stock of a grafted tree, obviously, has no part in its taxonomy. You can grow the same fruit-bearing tree with its own roots, and it will reproduce exactly the same way as the grafted ones.    

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by Peterkin
two mistakes

[Externet]

Thanks.

Let me check if I understood well.   There is no way to learn by the taxonomy of a certain plant, if its seed will produce an exact genetic copy with same hardiness or color or flavor.

That name I used in this post "true seed" characteristic am looking for, does not exist in the taxonomy/classification.  If I want to grow oranges; I cannot tell from its taxonomy if will have to be grafted or will produce same exact fruit from its seed.  I must learn from an experienced expert farmer.  Interesting.

None of the 8 names at top tell it ?

[Peterkin]

Not exactly. Natural taxonomy tells you it's a plant, woody, flowering, and which type of seed it produces. In nature, all seeds are "true seeds"; that is, they duplicate the  characteristics of the parent or parents within the accuracy of any DNA transmission. (Which means you could have 1. an exact copy of one parent, 2. a combination of the two parents, 3. some slight variation of that combination due to sequencing error or 3.  a mutation that's significantly different from the parent(s) #3. being the most likely)

Cultivated plants don't fit perfectly into the taxonomy table, because they have been artificially altered by human intervention. Hybrid varieties are therefore classified according to their parent species, plus X for cross. 'Heritage' or 'heirloom' varieties are cultivated plants that have not been altered for enough generations that they "breed true" - their seeds produce the same kind of plant as the parent. But since fruit trees can't be relied-on to bear the kind fruit of we want through natural reproduction, we humans take control, and propagate them artificially - effective yanking them right out of the evolutionary process.

Grafting has nothing to do with seed production: it's purely mechanical. To make sure that a fruit tree is the same as its parent, they literally use a part of the original tree to make a new tree. 

Quote

Grafting with vegetative material means you do not change the genetic identity of the variety at all. All trees belonging to one variety are genetically identical to each other, but unique and genetically distinct from any other variety.

You can often tell where a fruit tree has been grafted by scarring near the base of the trunk. If you buy a fruit sapling from a nursery, you can pretty much take for granted that it's been grafted: it's standard practice in horticulture.

Edited September 3, 2021 by Peterkin
to complete a sentence

[Externet]

Thanks.

The same type of question for 'determinate' and 'indeterminate'  Which I believe pertains to fruiting times.

 Is there anywhere in the taxonomy clasification list where to learn if a -say tomato- varietal is determinate or not ?

[Endy0816]

Plant genetics are weird. This may be of interest.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/F1_hybrid#In_plants

Edited September 3, 2021 by Endy0816

[Peterkin]

3 hours ago, Externet said:

Thanks.

The same type of question for 'determinate' and 'indeterminate'  Which I believe pertains to fruiting times.

 Is there anywhere in the taxonomy clasification list where to learn if a -say tomato- varietal is determinate or not ?

In tomatoes, those words refer to the growth habit of the plant itself. Determinate means it grows like a bush, up to a certain height - usually around 3' - and then stops growing upward and just makes more branches sideways. Indeterminate means it's essentially a vine: it  just keeps growing at the end of its central stalk and can reach 20' or more. Only, unlike other vines, tomatoes can't clutch on to supports, so they need to be tied to uprights. They can be trained, within certain limits, to grow horizontally on a support, so that you can trellis them like grapes. Tomatoes are further categorized by leaf shape, and as heirloom/heritage or hybrid by whether they can breed true. If you get an heirloom tomato variety and save a ripe fruit, you can use the seed from it to grow the same kind of plant.  The time of fruiting is when the plant reaches maturity and the weather conditions are right (generally: warm days and cool nights. The packet of seed usually say how many days to maturity (40-60)

The actual taxonomy stops at species: Solanum lycopersicum L. – garden tomato, but there are thousands of cultivars or varieties within the species.