Making jelly (that's jello in USA I believe)

[geordief]

What are the conditions that favour the set of ,eg blackcurrant jelly?

I assume the proportion of pectin to fluid volume is one of them.

What about temperature....is that fixed?

And does continuing the  boil after the liquid is starting to  set  cause the set to deteriorate?(how fine is that judgement?)

 

Any other parameters?

[studiot]

49 minutes ago, geordief said:

What are the conditions that favour the set of ,eg blackcurrant jelly?

I assume the proportion of pectin to fluid volume is one of them.

What about temperature....is that fixed?

And does continuing the  boil after the liquid is starting to  set  cause the set to deteriorate?(how fine is that judgement?)

 

Any other parameters?

 

This food technology course looks to answer your questions.

http://ecoursesonline.iasri.res.in/mod/page/view.php?id=4025

 

The link starts at lesson 27 "jams jellies and pickles."

[exchemist]

44 minutes ago, geordief said:

What are the conditions that favour the set of ,eg blackcurrant jelly?

I assume the proportion of pectin to fluid volume is one of them.

What about temperature....is that fixed?

And does continuing the  boil after the liquid is starting to  set  cause the set to deteriorate?(how fine is that judgement?)

 

Any other parameters?

Pectin alone allows jam to set, but that is not really jelly. For jelly, my understanding is you need to add gelatin. Temperature is crucial. Jelly melts. To get it to set, you need it to cool. If it's boiling it will never set. But when making jam, you need to reach a certain temperature to release the pectin before you cool it, which is when it then sets.  That may be what you have in mind.

I'm not an expert on jam, but I do make a ham and parsley terrine, with gelatin, which one buys in sheets that are dissolved in warm stock before being poured over the terrine mixture. But then you need to pop it in the frdige for some hours to allow the gel to form.  

[Peterkin]

I've never added gelatin to a fruit jelly - the kind you put in a jar and spread on bread.  Extra pectin is a must, though: what occurs naturally in fruits is enough for marmalade and some jams, but not jelly. Lots of pectin (recipes are available for exact proportion to different fruits on line), lots of sugar and long, tedious cooking.

It's jelly in American, too. Jello is the brand-turned-generic name for dessert jelly, the kind that stands up by itself. That requires gelatin (from animal integuments) or agar-agar, the vegetarian version (from algae).  

[zapatos]

Quote

Jelly: Jelly is made with strained fruit juice. There are no pieces of fruit in jelly.

Jam: Jam is made with mashed fruit.

Preserves: Preserves have whole fruit or large pieces of fruit. Some fruits such as blackberries or raspberries will not stay whole during the processing so there may not be much difference between raspberry jam and raspberry preserve.

Fruit spreads (only fruit): These are 100% fruit with no sugar added. If needed, a sweet fruit juice such as white grape juice or apple juice may be added. Because of the sugar in the fruit we cannot call these products sugarless. These spreads offer the most amount of pure fruit flavor.

Butters: Butters are made from pureed fruit. They are not as sweet as preserves, jams, or jellies but offer a full fruit flavor. Butters are cooked for over 6 hours ,at a low temperature, allowing the product to thicken. Butters tend to be dark because of the exposure to air during the cooking. These are also available with no sugar added.

 

https://www.mvfarmmarket.com/blogs/news/16861488-whats-the-difference-between-jams-jellies-preserves-spreads-and-butters

We've been making jelly, jam and butter since as long as I can remember. Varies by year but this year alone we've made both apple and peach butter, wild grape jelly, and jams from strawberries, blackberries, raspberries, plums, and probably some I cannot remember.

The ONLY ingredients that ever go into jellies and jams when we make them is fruit, sugar, lemon juice and dairy butter. A batch will typically be 1 c. smashed fruit or juice, 1 c. sugar, 1 tbsp lemon juice, and 1 pat of butter. Boil until it is the right consistency (about 6-7 minutes but varies based on water content of fruit). 

That's it. Getting the right consistency is a matter of experience and a little bit of luck. If when cooled it turns out too thick we just add a little bit of apple juice, and if it is too thin we just boil again for a short while.

Edited September 21, 2021 by zapatos

[Phi for All]

And the title is incorrect, btw. Jello in the USA has NOTHING to do with jellies, jams, or butters. It's a gelatin dessert eaten by itself with a spoon, sometimes with whole fruit or veg inside. It's stiffer/wigglier than any jelly, has less sugar, and you don't spread it on anything. OTOH, you can eat half a cup of it for about 80 calories.

[geordief]

12 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

And the title is incorrect, btw. Jello in the USA has NOTHING to do with jellies, jams, or butters. It's a gelatin dessert eaten by itself with a spoon, sometimes with whole fruit or veg inside. It's stiffer/wigglier than any jelly, has less sugar, and you don't spread it on anything. OTOH, you can eat half a cup of it for about 80 calories.

I can't edit it now.

[zapatos]

10 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

And the title is incorrect, btw. Jello in the USA has NOTHING to do with jellies, jams, or butters. It's a gelatin dessert eaten by itself with a spoon, sometimes with whole fruit or veg inside. It's stiffer/wigglier than any jelly, has less sugar, and you don't spread it on anything. OTOH, you can eat half a cup of it for about 80 calories.

Whoever thought of putting veggies in Jello should have been whipped. It's innocuous enough plain and as it is sweet it will certainly pass for dessert to a kid. But when you put shredded carrots or other such nonsense in it the eating experience goes from meh to bleh.

[geordief]

28 minutes ago, zapatos said:

Whoever thought of putting veggies in Jello should have been whipped. It's innocuous enough plain and as it is sweet it will certainly pass for dessert to a kid. But when you put shredded carrots or other such nonsense in it the eating experience goes from meh to bleh.

Cream whipped?

[zapatos]

1 hour ago, geordief said:

Cream whipped?

That helps! Now you've added some tasty fat to the mix! 😄

Another popular version is the Jello shot! Just add a little vodka!

[Phi for All]

1 hour ago, zapatos said:

Whoever thought of putting veggies in Jello should have been whipped. It's innocuous enough plain and as it is sweet it will certainly pass for dessert to a kid. But when you put shredded carrots or other such nonsense in it the eating experience goes from meh to bleh.

I can't remember which aunt used to shred cabbage & carrots into an orange Jello mold for reunions, but she's dead now, so it's clearly something to avoid.

I'm with you though, a Jello purist. You can get the fruit flavors many other places, but the texture of Jello was unique growing up. Even grapes or berries or pineapple meant you had to chew rather than reduce the gelated solid to a liquid using friction, heat, and pressure from your tongue. Proper Jello isn't eaten, it's sucked until you can drink it. 

[exchemist]

2 hours ago, Phi for All said:

And the title is incorrect, btw. Jello in the USA has NOTHING to do with jellies, jams, or butters. It's a gelatin dessert eaten by itself with a spoon, sometimes with whole fruit or veg inside. It's stiffer/wigglier than any jelly, has less sugar, and you don't spread it on anything. OTOH, you can eat half a cup of it for about 80 calories.

Yes, that's what I assumed he meant by "jelly": the kids' dessert type thing.

But I take @zapatos's point that you can make a fruit jelly, i.e. a stiff jam from strained fruit, with added pectin, i.e. without adding gelatin. 

Edited September 21, 2021 by exchemist

[zapatos]

8 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

Proper Jello isn't eaten, it's sucked until you can drink it. 

LOL! Kids are the same everywhere. I hadn't thought about it in years but I remember sucking Jello through my teeth. 😃

Speaking of kids...

I didn't realize it as a kid but finally saw it as a parent; jokes are sort of free floating entities that hover around kids of a certain age.

I remember my older son coming home with a joke he heard in the second grade, and it was the same joke I had told when I was in the second grade. Then my younger son gets to second grade, and he comes home from school to tell the same joke! All through grade school as my boys were growing up I would first hear a joke from my older son that I heard as a kid, followed two years later by my younger son telling the same joke.

It made me wonder how those jokes managed to stay with a certain age of kids over the years.

[Phi for All]

4 hours ago, exchemist said:

Pectin alone allows jam to set, but that is not really jelly. For jelly, my understanding is you need to add gelatin. Temperature is crucial. Jelly melts. To get it to set, you need it to cool. If it's boiling it will never set.

My mother used to make jelly this way and it was tasty as well as having a pleasing texture. But in between her limited canning seasons, she bought a store brand jelly that was so stiff it ripped the bread when you tried to spread it. It tasted of grapes and children's tears.

51 minutes ago, zapatos said:

LOL! Kids are the same everywhere. I hadn't thought about it in years but I remember sucking Jello through my teeth. 😃

Ah, I forgot about how teeth can break down Jello viscosity!

51 minutes ago, zapatos said:

Speaking of kids...

I didn't realize it as a kid but finally saw it as a parent; jokes are sort of free floating entities that hover around kids of a certain age.

I remember my older son coming home with a joke he heard in the second grade, and it was the same joke I had told when I was in the second grade. Then my younger son gets to second grade, and he comes home from school to tell the same joke! All through grade school as my boys were growing up I would first hear a joke from my older son that I heard as a kid, followed two years later by my younger son telling the same joke.

It made me wonder how those jokes managed to stay with a certain age of kids over the years.

The culprit is one of your school's second grade teachers! I remember my eighth grade English teacher drawing a couple of stick figures holding a circle with a dot in the middle of it between them. She asked me what it was, and when I couldn't guess she said it was "two men walking abreast". 

Of course, this calls for my only jelly joke. In the midst of the Y2K panic in 1999, the KY Jelly company announced it was Y2K compliant. They called it Y2KY Jelly, and it allowed you to put all four digits in your date....

[geordief]

17 minutes ago, zapatos said:

 All through grade school as my boys were growing up I would first hear a joke from my older son that I heard as a kid, followed two years later by my younger son telling the same joke.

It made me wonder how those jokes managed to stay with a certain age of kids over the years.

They were preserved in aspic.

Edited September 21, 2021 by geordief

[Peterkin]

1 hour ago, geordief said:

They were preserved in aspic.

🤣Now, that's a good way to present shredded vegetables!

Meat, OTOH, not so much. I've made head cheese and pork aspic, a long time ago when my parents had a farm. Didn't like it - not the making nor the eating.

BTW - don't use pineapple in your jelly; it won't set.

[geordief]

5 hours ago, studiot said:

 

This food technology course looks to answer your questions.

http://ecoursesonline.iasri.res.in/mod/page/view.php?id=4025

 

The link starts at lesson 27 "jams jellies and pickles."

Thanks,plenty there.

[iNow]

5 hours ago, zapatos said:

Whoever thought of putting veggies in Jello should have been whipped.

My in laws do this every holiday (or did until we began hosting). Shredded carrots and mandarin oranges are common. Not horrible honestly, but my wife’s grandmother does this and also adds marshmallows. Not at all a fan, but where I really draw the line is when they put miracle whip and black walnuts into a bowl of sliced apples (a bit like a Waldorf salad which is also hate). I gag every time I try it, and I’ll eat damned near anything. 😂 

4 hours ago, zapatos said:

Another popular version is the Jello shot! Just add a little vodka!

Years of experience and massive college parties with my roommates confirms it’s much better done with Everclear (a high ACV grain alcohol with little if any flavor for my friends across ponds). 

Edited September 22, 2021 by iNow

[TheVat]

Grapes embedded in jello are okay,  but I'd join in the condemnation of vegetables in jello.   I've been subjected to celery slices in jello,  which should be classed as a felony.   Jello is perfect and complete just as it is.   As Peterkin warns,  just don't add proteases like bromelain because they'll break internal peptide bonds in the collagen.   And who needs pineapple in there anyway?   BTW,  anyone noticed that pineapple can sting the throat a bit?  That's a tiny bit of proteolysis going on,  from the bromelain.   

[zapatos]

16 minutes ago, iNow said:

Years of experience and massive college parties with my roommates confirms it’s much better done with Everclear (a high ACV grain alcohol with little if any flavor for my friends across ponds). 

In my experience Everclear leads to a propensity for bad behavior and projectile vomiting. I get nauseated just thinking about that devil's brew!

[StringJunky]

11 hours ago, zapatos said:

In my experience Everclear leads to a propensity for bad behavior and projectile vomiting. I get nauseated just thinking about that devil's brew!

I'm like that with vodka, so Everclear would probably be worse.

[Phi for All]

11 hours ago, TheVat said:

Grapes embedded in jello are okay,  but I'd join in the condemnation of vegetables in jello.   I've been subjected to celery slices in jello,  which should be classed as a felony.

I normally enjoy pairing bitter and sweet, but I find nothing redeemable about this combo. It sounds absolutely vile.

12 hours ago, TheVat said:

As Peterkin warns,  just don't add proteases like bromelain because they'll break internal peptide bonds in the collagen.   And who needs pineapple in there anyway?

My mom used to put canned fruit cocktail (Depression-era folks LOVE canned food) in jello. Iirc, it had pineapple in it, so they must have done something to it in processing. I don't remember her having any trouble with the Jello setting up properly.

 

[zapatos]

33 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

My mom used to put canned fruit cocktail (Depression-era folks LOVE canned food) in jello. Iirc, it had pineapple in it, so they must have done something to it in processing. I don't remember her having any trouble with the Jello setting up properly.

That was such a disappointment! You're all excited for the Jello and BAM, you see all that crap in there and suddenly you're hoping you can find some chocolate chip cookies. 

Which reminds me...

While I LOVE soup at my current age, when I was a kid it was such a disappointment when you had it for dinner. You're thinking meat, mashed potatoes, gravy, mac 'n cheese, and suddenly your mother say "The vegetable soup is ready!' What a letdown. 

[Phi for All]

46 minutes ago, zapatos said:

While I LOVE soup at my current age, when I was a kid it was such a disappointment when you had it for dinner. You're thinking meat, mashed potatoes, gravy, mac 'n cheese, and suddenly your mother say "The vegetable soup is ready!' What a letdown. 

Not sure either of my folks would have allowed a meatless meal on their dining table. But mom did have a recipe for beef and barley soup that she must have gotten from the Depression. She'd shred a small part of a cooked roast and then MINCE the beef to slivers. Good soup with lots of veg, one of my favorites, but the beef was practically an illusion. 

[Peterkin]

1 hour ago, Phi for All said:

My mom used to put canned fruit cocktail (Depression-era folks LOVE canned food) in jello. Iirc, it had pineapple in it, so they must have done something to it in processing. I don't remember her having any trouble with the Jello setting up properly.

I used to have that in the hospital cafeteria. We never made anything but clear red and orange - never green! - jello at home, though we occasionally had the canned fruit cocktail. I don't remember it tasting of any particular fruit, except the cloudy pear juice and the one half maraschino cherry we fought over. I think they cooked the hell out of it, denaturing the enzymes.