Melbourne copy cat riots:

[beecee]

For three days now Melbourne has been under attack from extreme right wing  ratbag elements that have caused much damage and plenty of disgust among normal Aussies. The core of these riots while having some legitimacy, have been hijacked by various extreme elements that have like leaches, jumped on the bandwagon, in a belief of achieving some sort of result or victory. In fact, thankfully the opposite has happened. 

The legitimate core involved tradies and members of the CMFEU union and a mandatory vaccination order. On the first day after trashing their head office, many were found not to be union members, plus the fact that the leaders of the union, do support mandatory vaccination, as also now required in many other industries and sections of the community...health care, airline, public servents...why the hell this section should be excempt is beyond me, particularly considering that a great portion of new cases of covid 19 are in that industry and on building sites. This has led to the shutdown of the industry for 2 weeks along with the mandatory vaccinations necessary. The union also now has said they will review any membership based on whether a member has been vaccinated.

Here are some photos of examples of the merging of the radical right ratbags and the copy cat Trumpism that has infected some in Australia.......The first photo shows the trashing of their union office headquarters...

The next is an example of utter  disrespect when they gathered on the steps of Melbourne's shrine of rememberence for all those killed in war...

And on top of all this Australia's east coast has yesterday expeienced a 5.8 magnitude earthquake with the epi-centre about 100 kms nor/east of Melbourne business district. Thankfully no loss of life and some minimal building damage. Don't smirk at the 5.8 magnitude, we aint that used to earthquakes in Australia!

Oh, and don't forget the conspiracy nuts......

Edited September 22, 2021 by beecee

[swansont]

!

Moderator Note

Moved to politics

 

[dimreepr]

What's a normal Australian? 

[CharonY]

Seem a bit disoriented (spatially and temporally) with all the re-elect Trump banners and such.

[Peterkin]

We have them, too. I've been admonished for mentioning this threat in a global context, so I won't, but as local threats go, it's quite bad enough.

https://www.nationalobserver.com/2021/09/19/analysis/shocking-anti-vaccine-protests-plagued-canadas-election-spawned-resurgent-far

Meanwhile, the most conservative and permissive administration in the country, the premier who has been loudly "open for business" as the Delta variant rampaged through his province, finally backed down - just a couple of months too late. 

 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/kenney-military-alberta-health-care-1.6181646

And the idjit is trying to cut nurses' salaries! What he actually wants is to privatize the provincial health care system - which was built up with public funds.

They're everywhere!

 

PS It's difficult for anyone with even the most tenuous hold on reality to reconcile the picture on that big flag with this picture.

[Phi for All]

People looking for change are a target for populists. It's a shame all that energy isn't being better focused. 

What are they thinking of? If the government was taking control, would vaccination be voluntary? Do they not have vaccs for rubella and hepatitis and tetanus, that claim far fewer lives each year? 

We all want to know what's going on. We all want less corruption from those we trust to lead us. We all want more control of the events happening right around us. It's natural for us to want these things and we're not getting them, so we look for what's jamming the system up. And everyone has a different idea of what's causing the problems, but nowadays they seem to be more adamant that they're right and others are wrong.

Poorly informed people can't focus their energy enough to affect anything.

[Sensei]

On 9/23/2021 at 12:11 AM, beecee said:

Oh, and don't forget the conspiracy nuts......

[dimreepr]

21 hours ago, Phi for All said:

Poorly informed people can't focus their energy enough to affect anything.

Indeed, we have to think critically about everything... 

[CharonY]

On 9/23/2021 at 8:44 AM, Peterkin said:

We have them, too. I've been admonished for mentioning this threat in a global context, so I won't, but as local threats go, it's quite bad enough.

There are different flavours of antivaxxers, though the international Trump-followers are a specific kind of xenophobes. Saskatchewan and I think Manitoba are in the same boat. There were also efforts to cut contact tracing, testing and isolation requirements. I.e. if we don't know that we are screwed no one can hold us accountable, right? Health officials have been at odds with the respective governments, with is always a bad sign.

Not to mention how burned out the folks on the ground are, and then folks protest near or even in front of hospitals. Even without the frankly insane pay cuts, who would want to continue working under these conditions?

[Peterkin]

36 minutes ago, CharonY said:

Even without the frankly insane pay cuts, who would want to continue working under these conditions?

I'm not sure Kenney and his ilk aren't counting on the collapse of their public health care system to raze it to the ground and institute a private one. They're cynical enough - but are they evil enough? And do they not realize that their own voter base is dying off?  Far righters do tend to myopia.

49 minutes ago, CharonY said:

There are different flavours of antivaxxers, though the international Trump-followers are a specific kind of xenophobes.

Not so much anymore; to garble a metaphor, the various wings of the nut-factory are gathering under a single flag:

Quote

Nonetheless, it was possible to discern certain dynamics that appear to play important roles in this process of interactivity and transnational collaboration. For one, it is important to note that this development is not entirely based on new ideas or concepts. Rather, some old concepts and visions, probably most importantly the notion that it is necessary to start civil unrest, have been globalized by the movement.

It's so easy to generate and harness fear to the requirements of domination.

Quote

The principal actors of the anti-lockdown movement have either been or rubbed elbows with some significant haters on the scene. Vancouver neo-Nazi Brian Ruhe, who at one point organized a mock book burning, was involved in its earliest iteration. Quebec’s far-right conspiracy streamer Alexis Cossette-Trudel, a big name among France’s QAnon following, is an important mouthpiece of the francophone anti-lockdown movement. Neo-Nazi Paul Fromm is a fixture at rallies in both Ontario and in Kelowna, B.C. Antimask activist Chris Saccoccia’s social-media feeds feature Holocaust denial and racist posts.

The second quote is from an editorial, but I think he makes a sound observation.

[CharonY]

2 hours ago, Peterkin said:

Not so much anymore; to garble a metaphor, the various wings of the nut-factory are gathering under a single flag:

The big groups, yes. But there are also holdouts among certain marginalized groups for a variety of reasons. Those folks tend not to join in those demonstrations, though.

[Peterkin]

They'll be rolled up later - and hardly matter anyway, in the global scheme of power.

[beecee]

On 9/24/2021 at 3:07 AM, Phi for All said:

What are they thinking of? If the government was taking control, would vaccination be voluntary? Do they not have vaccs for rubella and hepatitis and tetanus, that claim far fewer lives each year? 

And even as a baby with whooping cough and mumps vaccinations. In fact in many instances in some states, unvaccinated toddlers are refused entry to kindagartens, and all social welfare is refused for their parents.

On 9/24/2021 at 12:06 AM, dimreepr said:

What's a normal Australian? 

Certainly not one that took part in the destructive riots of this mob in question. The initial core were tradies concerned with mandatory vaccinations, yet these same mandatory vaccinations are near part and parcel already with other government and private concerns...then the ratbags got wind of it and decided to turn it into the riot of which it was. Even the tradies own union, the CMFEU, a left leaning union are at odds with the small section of members fighting against mandatory vaccination. The other point of course being that new cases in Melbourne, had more then 50% found on building sites. This has now led to the closing down of the building industry for 2 weeks, whereas before they had remained open during this current lockdown. And more recent news now has one of those confirmed protestors, having covid, and serious enough to now be in hospital. This is raising fears of a possible super spreading event. Many protestors presumably are now having sleepless nights.

The biggest criticism of these riots, are that our police force are taking too much of a softly softly approach, [as on the first day] and consequently has led now to a more harder line with the use of batons, rubber bullets, and many arrests over the following couple of days. The disgraceful actions of this rabble and the justification of more force, has been highlighted with health care workers being assaulted in vaccination clinics during their march, reporters having bottles of urine tipped over them,  and the desecration of the shrine of rememberence. Any support this mob did have, has quickly drained away.

Edited September 24, 2021 by beecee

[beecee]

On 9/25/2021 at 12:21 AM, dimreepr said:

Indeed, we have to think critically about everything... 

And nothing creates critical thinking, better then contracting the covid19 virus...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-24/melbourne-tradie-with-covid-slams-protesters-urges-vaccination/100489814

Melbourne construction worker Nathan Chellia was on the phone to contact tracers when he collapsed at home, just one day after being diagnosed with COVID-19.

Key points:

• Nathan Challia wants protesters to learn from his mistake and get vaccinated
• The Melbourne tradie spent two weeks in intensive care in hospital with COVID-19
• He says people involved in this week's wild protests must stop spreading the virus

"I was pretty much unconscious," Mr Chellia said.

"The Department of Health had to call an ambulance and take me to hospital."

The father of two would go on to spend the next 14 days in intensive care in Melbourne's Northern Hospital, where he could barely eat or drink.

His throat was so closed, even simply sipping water would cause him to choke.

At one point, Mr Chellia was asked by his doctors to contact his loved ones and make final arrangements in case "something happens".

He told them that if he needed to be placed on a ventilator for more than 24 hours, they should let him die.

"I had headaches, vomiting, bleeding from my mouth. I was pretty much half-dead," he said.

"And I realised then that I had made a silly mistake because I hadn't had a vaccine."

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

The protests continued yesterday with police out numbering protestors now, and the bleating cry of police brutality from those arrested. No mention of course of the health workers who were assaulted a couple of days previously, nor the assault of reporters, or the damage to many vehicles in their so called protest "freedom of choice"  cries.

Thankfully, the hardline now taken by government and police is standing firm, and the only results of their forlorn protests, is delay in ending these lockdowns.

Criticism of the government is valid though in its delay in getting the required number of vaccines, probably in part due to the high rate of success Australia initially had in containing this virus last year. We are a victim of our own success it could be said. 

Meanwhile other states such as Queensland, Northern Territory, Tasmania, and Western Australia, remain virtually free of this "delta" variant, due to border closures. Thankfully vaccination numbers are now approaching the 70% mark when borders will be reopen.

Edited September 25, 2021 by beecee

[beecee]

Meanwhile, in the Premier State of NSW..................

Unvaccinated residents across New South Wales are likely to be restricted from sporting events, pubs and restaurants until 90 per cent of the population has received both jabs.

The state government is finalising its road map for 80 per cent, which is expected to be revealed this week, but some ministers divided over when unvaccinated residents should get freedoms.

The first restrictions are set to ease for the fully vaccinated on October 11, when NSW is predicted to hit the 70 per cent mark double-dose milestone.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

 

[dimreepr]

15 hours ago, beecee said:

And nothing creates critical thinking, better then contracting the covid19 virus...

Way to miss the point; for instance, asking why they'd rather face that abstract threat over your abstract threat, seems more productive than just condemning their choice. 

13 hours ago, beecee said:

Meanwhile, in the Premier State of NSW..................

Unvaccinated residents across New South Wales are likely to be restricted from sporting events, pubs and restaurants until 90 per cent of the population has received both jabs.

The state government is finalising its road map for 80 per cent, which is expected to be revealed this week, but some ministers divided over when unvaccinated residents should get freedoms.

The first restrictions are set to ease for the fully vaccinated on October 11, when NSW is predicted to hit the 70 per cent mark double-dose milestone.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

 

You can lead a horse to water...

[TheVat]

Antivax = superstitious death cult.   

A brief take on the issue.  When you have people who are unable to grasp why we no longer suffer (or rarely suffer)  from typhus,  polio,  smallpox,  tetanus,  diphtheria, pneumococcal, rubella, meningococcal,  etc,  then you are looking at minds in the powerful grip of a cult.  

[StringJunky]

1 hour ago, TheVat said:

Antivax = superstitious death cult.   

A brief take on the issue.  When you have people who are unable to grasp why we no longer suffer (or rarely suffer)  from typhus,  polio,  smallpox,  tetanus,  diphtheria, pneumococcal, rubella, meningococcal,  etc,  then you are looking at minds in the powerful grip of a cult.  

Let's have them circulating again.... and start all over again, until it's forgotten again and...

[beecee]

8 hours ago, dimreepr said:

Way to miss the point; for instance, asking why they'd rather face that abstract threat over your abstract threat, seems more productive than just condemning their choice. 

Actually now two known rioters from the rabble are now known to be infected, both in hospital, and presumably both regretting their stupidity and starting to think critically, if they survive that is. https://www.9news.com.au/national/melbourne-protests-second-person-tests-positive-to-covid19/18309d32-2bd0-4012-b2bf-596dc5e18759

"A second person who took to the streets of Melbourne CBD to protest last week has been confirmed as having COVID-19.

The discovery comes after a person who was hospitalised with the virus on Thursday was found to have participated in the illegal demonstration on Wednesday.

COVID-19 Commander Jeroen Weimar said a man in his 30s in Geelong had since tested positive to COVID-19 after attending the protests in Melbourne CBD on Tuesday".

8 hours ago, dimreepr said:

You can lead a horse to water...

As I said, many industries including teaching, health, airline, hardware, and now building industry, are making it mandatory for their employees to get vaccinated, irrespective of any 80 or 90% vaccination rates. That also may force some to think critically about their stupidity.

4 hours ago, TheVat said:

Antivax = superstitious death cult.   

A brief take on the issue.  When you have people who are unable to grasp why we no longer suffer (or rarely suffer)  from typhus,  polio,  smallpox,  tetanus,  diphtheria, pneumococcal, rubella, meningococcal,  etc,  then you are looking at minds in the powerful grip of a cult.  

 Well said.

A scenario I took extreme umbrage at was the following woman...I won't call her a mother, far too kind.

Edited September 26, 2021 by beecee

[Peterkin]

1 hour ago, beecee said:

A scenario I took extreme umbrage at was the following woman...I won't call her a mother, far too kind.

That's a priceless picture! The woman is yelling something angry; she doesn't seem to notice her child is crying, even as she clutches the stupid sign she can't read yet. Is that the father behind her, saying "Can't you see the kid wants to get sick?"

[CharonY]

8 hours ago, TheVat said:

Antivax = superstitious death cult.   

A brief take on the issue.  When you have people who are unable to grasp why we no longer suffer (or rarely suffer)  from typhus,  polio,  smallpox,  tetanus,  diphtheria, pneumococcal, rubella, meningococcal,  etc,  then you are looking at minds in the powerful grip of a cult.  

I mean, there is a reason why quite a few diseases that were close to be eradicated making a comeback. I am wondering whether the increasing politicization of vaccines may lead to even accelerated spread of this diseases in the future.

[beecee]

3 hours ago, CharonY said:

I mean, there is a reason why quite a few diseases that were close to be eradicated making a comeback. I am wondering whether the increasing politicization of vaccines may lead to even accelerated spread of this diseases in the future.

Let's bloody hope not!

I remember before I flew to Panama in 1974, having vaccinations for Yellow Fever, Smallpox, Typhoid and Cholera.

[Eiot]

canadians also vote for the Monarchy just like the other saxons (the 3 out of 4 english speaking countries are monarchic), canadians vote for the oligarchs, canadians depend entirely on the import. Canadians are spoiled workaholics , they dont care about political or social activism. They are greedy and glad to inflate the rental prices for their shitty box-shaped canadian houses. A nation of useless, greedy managers.

[Phi for All]

2 hours ago, Eiot said:

canadians also vote for the Monarchy just like the other saxons (the 3 out of 4 english speaking countries are monarchic), canadians vote for the oligarchs, canadians depend entirely on the import. Canadians are spoiled workaholics , they dont care about political or social activism. They are greedy and glad to inflate the rental prices for their shitty box-shaped canadian houses. A nation of useless, greedy managers.

!

Moderator Note

We don't appreciate opinions that require blanket condemnation of whole groups of people. They're meaningless and waste time and brain cells, in addition to being racist and bigoted. We're a science discussion forum, so thinking is important. Don't bother responding to this modnote, just do better.

 

[beecee]

On 9/27/2021 at 6:29 AM, beecee said:

Actually now two known rioters from the rabble are now known to be infected, both in hospital, and presumably both regretting their stupidity and starting to think critically, if they survive that is. https://www.9news.com.au/national/melbourne-protests-second-person-tests-positive-to-covid19/18309d32-2bd0-4012-b2bf-596dc5e18759

It seems like the fear of these rioters creating a super spreading event is approaching reality. Besides the two referenced above, the offices of the CFMEU are being sanitised as we speak, with a serious outbreak at those premises and the Secretary of the Union testing positive, as well as three other officials. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/sep/29/cfmeu-blames-protests-for-covid-outbreak-at-victorian-headquarters 

If there is anything good to come out of all this, it is the fact that the further it goes on, the more the science and science modelling is being proven correct. 

 

 

The state of Victoria's health workers are now bracing for an expected challenge, with numbers of recorded infections, jumping from 950 to 1438 over a 24 hour period.