MIND & CONSCIOUSNESS

[DrmDoc]

Greetings All,

If you’re up for a brief but insightful exchange of perspectives and, perhaps, withering criticism of same, then this is a discussion for you. Regardless of your IQ on the science and subject, I will make every effort to keep our brief discussion accessible to all knowledge levels.  Let’s begin with a couple of definitions on which we should all agree:

• Mind – the environment of cognitive activity within the brain that arises from brain function and is quantified by a brain’s capacity to integrate dichotomous sensory information with memory through a process that produces behaviors independent instinct.  Essentially, a mind enables proactive over reactive behaviors.
• Consciousness – the basic awareness suggested by an organism’s responses to stimuli.

Mind and consciousness are not qualities unique to humans but remain worthy of our continued interest, study, and discussion here because of the advantages these qualities uniquely provide humanity.  It may be a bit arrogant to suggest that your perspective may be a bit misguided and worthless if isn’t based on an understanding of brain function and its evolution, but don’t let this notion deter your contribution to this topic.  I’ve learned much myself by opposing staid and established ideas, as well as the status quo.

I’m student in a class that has lasted and will last my entire life.  As I march through the twilight of my remaining years, with considerably more behind me than ahead, I still have more to learn and questions new or opposing perspective could answer.   It’s my experience that exchanges in forums like this often reveal unique and interesting perspectives that have enhanced my own.  I don’t particularly trust everything I read or so-called experts, but I do trust my ability to investigate and discern for myself whatever a truth might be. 

For many years now, I’ve been investigating the extraordinary nature of mind and consciousness with particular interest in the unconscious mind in brain function. Quantifying the distinction between our conscious and unconscious mind, their remarkable nature, and how they emerge distinctly in brain function are incredibly clear from my perspective.  If this is your interest, I welcome your thoughts.

[zapatos]

54 minutes ago, DrmDoc said:

• Consciousness – the basic awareness suggested by an organism’s responses to stimuli.

 

I'm not sure why you think we should all agree to this definition. It is far from accepted that a tree is conscious even though it responds to stimuli.

[DrmDoc]

1 hour ago, zapatos said:

I'm not sure why you think we should all agree to this definition. It is far from accepted that a tree is conscious even though it responds to stimuli.

Your question appears to suggest a perspective of consciousness resigned to a human quality of expression.  Indeed, a tree's responses to stimuli may not equate to a human's level of consciousness but it's biological responses to stimuli does at the very least express a tree's biological awareness of that stimuli. Consciousness is only special when it produces a mind--trees do not produce a mind as I have defined.

Trees do not produce evidence of a mind because their responses are not known to produce behaviors independent of what we may ascribe to their intrinsic biological nature. For this discussion, consciousness isn't some grand quality but simply the level of awareness we observe through an organism's responses.  Generally, our observations of an organism's responses to stimuli may suggest either a biological/physical awareness or some measure of mental awareness.  You may not perceive a tree's response as evidence of consciousness because you may only be considering a mental perspective of consciousness. I welcome your further thoughts.  

Edited October 3, 2021 by DrmDoc
wording

[zapatos]

1 hour ago, DrmDoc said:

Your question appears to suggest a perspective of consciousness resigned to a human quality of expression.

That is not what I was suggesting. For example, consciousness is likely a trait of chimpanzees also. What I was suggesting was that your definition of consciousness was too broad as it included trees, and it is not generally agreed upon that trees are conscious.

1 hour ago, DrmDoc said:

Consciousness is only special when it produces a mind--trees do not produce a mind as I have defined.

If consciousness is simply a biological response to stimuli, I don't see how consciousness produces a mind. It is within the brain that the mind is produced. Consciousness (as you defined it) may be a component of the mind, but it did not produce it and I'm unsure consciousness even needs to exist for the mind to exist. For example, someone who is deprived of all sensory input can still be conscious.

[DrmDoc]

9 hours ago, zapatos said:

That is not what I was suggesting. For example, consciousness is likely a trait of chimpanzees also. What I was suggesting was that your definition of consciousness was too broad as it included trees, and it is not generally agreed upon that trees are conscious.

Indeed, the intent of my definition was to be broad because that quality isn't particularly special or unique to humans if one understands its emergence through biological systems.  Others may not generally perceive trees as conscious because of their understanding of that quality, which may be incomplete or limited by an expressly human view of that quality. 

 

9 hours ago, zapatos said:

If consciousness is simply a biological response to stimuli, I don't see how consciousness produces a mind. It is within the brain that the mind is produced. Consciousness (as you defined it) may be a component of the mind, but it did not produce it and I'm unsure consciousness even needs to exist for the mind to exist. For example, someone who is deprived of all sensory input can still be conscious.

To refine my perspective further, which is an intent of this discussion, an organism must initially have a biological system in place that generates a physiological system from which measures of consciousness can emerge.  Our brain is a product of our biological evolution and its physiological functions produce responses to stimuli that we interpret as evidence of mental awareness.  Indeed, a mental level of awareness is an attribute of consciousness, but it's not the only measure of that quality's emergence in a organism.  Stripped to its most basic level, consciousness is merely the measure of awareness an organism expresses. The question of whether chimpanzees are aware is answered by their responses to stimuli. Whether or not chimpanzees possess humanlike awareness is suggested by their humanlike responses to human equivalent stimuli.

The question of how consciousness produces a mind is answerable by the biological components and attributes of consciousness.  In humans, the biological system we've evolved to generate a physiological system that produces consciousness is homestasis.    Essentially, homestasis is an internal system of checks and balances in the brain that maintain system stability.  Maintaining system stability in our brain is what generates and powers our responses.

In the simplest of terms, stimuli that creates an imbalance in brain function generates our responses to those stimuli.  In the brain, the transference of sensory stimuli requires energy, which relies on and expend brain nutrients. The nutrient imbalances this stimuli causes in the brain initiates those biological processes to restore its functional balance.  Our mental awareness and acuity are responses to the continual measures of stimuli our brain experiences. Mind is a product of how brain integrates its awareness responses to the stimuli it experiences.  

[DrmDoc]

Greetings,

In previous discussions, I alluded to  an "attribute" of consciousness. To further refine, consciousness describes the observable attributes of an organism's awareness suggested by that organism's responses to stimuli.  Some of us may view consciousness as an esoteric, abstract quality of little to no scientific gravitas.  Contrary to that view, these "observable attributes" places consciousness firmly within the realm of science. Mind emerges from consciousness and, I ask, how well do you understand your mind and yourself with little to no concept of either?

We can categorize evidence of consciousness, if human equivalent, by two primary and observable attributes of awareness comparable to humans:  Sensory awareness and mental awareness.  Sensory awareness is evident by an organism's behavioral responses to stimuli and mental awareness is suggested by behaviors that infer a thought process.  Behaviors that infer a though process are evidence that an organism possesses a mind.

Although humans possess a mind, many of us have no knowledge or interest in how that quality evolved or how it emerges through brain function.  Perhaps that's a good thing because we all routinely titter on the edge of rampant insanity due to the basic biological nature of our mind's emerge in brain function (see homeostasis).  Maintaining mental stability is thrust upon an emerging mind from the moment of birth and, perhaps, invitro.  It requires surprisingly little to unbalance a mind as imbalance is continually driven by the stimuli we experience every waking moment of life.  A balanced mind is a quiet mind and mine, like most others, is very noisy.  

If there are no further inquiries or contrary arguments thus far, I would like to proceed to a discuss of the unconscious mind in my next post.  There is disappointingly very little popularly understood about the unconscious that is true, precise, or rooted in empirical science. The unconscious mind and how it manifests is made remarkably clear by how it emerges in brain function.  That clear perspective of the unconscious mind is suggested by our examination of brain activity amid the unconscious state of brain function.  If permitted, we can explore this further in my next post.  I welcome your continued interest.

[DrmDoc]

Greetings,

The greatest mysteries aren’t those that lay at our oceans’ deepest depths or beyond the furthest edge of our universe but in fathoming the seemingly infinite potential of our unconscious mind.  We all exist in an Eden of ignorance considering the level of our current understanding and perception of the unconscious mind.   We do not understand the true nature of the unconscious clearly and what we do understand is merely whimsy and conjecture without a firm foundation in brain function.

Most of what is understood in science about our unconscious mind is based on behavioral studies and observations.  To be clear, these studies and observations merely reveal expressions of the unconscious rather than its construct in brain function which, if understood, would explain how those expressions emerge as specific behaviors.  So, what is the unconscious mind?

In earlier comments, I described mind as the environment of cognitive activity in within the brain that arises from brain function.  As I have described so many times before in this science forum, our brain function produces just two distinctive states of cognitive activity—conscious and unconscious.  The conscious state is that level of awareness you are engaging now by reading my comments here as I have written them.  The unconscious state is that level of your awareness that perceives all the noises and influences beyond your current reading space that has, until now, escaped your notice or, in other words, escaped your conscious awareness.

Some authorities will use the term subconscious synonymously in reference to the unconscious mind.  Don’t be deceived by these individuals because they don’t know what the hell they’re talking about.  Subconscious is not an observable or testable state of brain function and, therefore, subconscious is not a mind relative to brain function.  Subconscious describes a mental influence or operative nature rather than the mind itself (e.g., our unconscious mind operates subconsciously).

Previously, I referenced hemostasis as the biological basis and system for brain function that produces a mind.  Within that system, the delivery of stimuli creates an imbalance that produces responses to restore that balance.  Within the brain, the delivery of sensory stimuli requires and uses energy, which generates biological responses to restore the energy used persistent with that stimulus.  Conscious awareness is a response to sensory stimuli that has reached those areas of our brain that generates and mediates our conscious responses.  To be clear, all sensory stimulus reaches the brain; however, not all stimuli to the brain generates a conscious cognitive response. 

What we perceive and respond to consciously is unconsciously filtered and merely the smallest fraction of what our brain intakes from one micro moment to the next.  Our unconscious brain function experiences everything and filters what reaches our conscious response system.  At this moment, your conscious perceptions are merely a pinpoint on a mountain of sensory data that has not reached your conscious awareness—your unconscious mind has filtered and retains that data.

In my next post, if interest persist, I will attempt to be more specific on how the unconscious mind is likely distinguishable through thalamic processes in the brain function.  I welcome thoughts.

[Goude]

Well, I wonder if conscientiousness has anything to do with the brain. If you want to expand the nature of awareness and mind look at this video, if not, it's OK.

 

https://youtu.be/WnoIf2NwaRY

Edited November 19, 2021 by Goude

[mistermack]

3 hours ago, Goude said:

Well, I wonder if conscientiousness has anything to do with the brain.

Makes me wonder why we need a brain at all then. Seems funny that people lose conscientiousness when they get hit on the head though. Maybe that's what happened to Trump. 

[Goude]

3 hours ago, mistermack said:

Makes me wonder why we need a brain at all then. Seems funny that people lose conscientiousness when they get hit on the head though. Maybe that's what happened to Trump. 

Me too. But I guess consciousness has to come in somewhere, so the brain is willing.

[DrmDoc]

Greetings,

Unless otherwise inspired, this will be my last entry on this topic.  After a revelation of sorts, I’ve hesitated to engage further discussions of this nature.  My hesitancy involved a critical understanding of what homeostasis--the driving force of brain function--truly suggests about the basic nature of mind and consciousness, generally, and humanity overall.

If you’ll recall from my prior comments, homeostasis infers a system of brain function where maintaining functional stability is the primary progenitor of all behavioral expressions and responses.  In greater context, our actions and reactions, thoughts and feelings emerge from a biological system balancing on what seems a razor’s edge of stability with afferent stimuli balanced against efferent responses within the brain.  The manifest expression and nature of mind and consciousness are essentially a balance between extremes ultimately suggesting that we do not function without instability. 

If you truly understand the significance of that last suggestion, you’d probably understand why I’m hesitant to engage further discussion on this subject.  However, I said I would discuss the nature of our unconscious mind in brain function in my previous post and so I shall.  Our conscious mind is merely a product of unconscious processes, which means that our consciously perceived and recognized behaviors emerge from processes that occur below or beyond the threshold of our conscious awareness.  In the brain, those processes begin when afferent stimuli enter the thalamus. 

The thalamus isn’t well understood or recognized, in my opinion, for its prominent place in our brain’s evolution.  In my model of that evolution, the thalamus emerges as the first iteration of our contemporary brain with a right and left hemispheric configuration.  It was a proto-brain where all stimuli initially arrived and from where all efferent responses ultimately issued when at its functional pinnacle.  Presently, even without its congenital cortical connections, research suggests our thalamus would serve its evolved function sufficiently to viably sustain life. 

It’s likely that the thalamus is where our instinctive, reflexive behavioral responses originate. Our unconscious mind, accordingly, appears to be more reflexive and doesn’t appear to engage a thought process.  If true, this would suggest that the unconscious mind doesn’t quite conform to my initial definition of “Mind” at the beginning of this discussion; wherein, its expressions and responses should appear to emerge from a thought process that produces behaviors independent of instinct.  What isn’t very clear to most of us is that our unconscious mind does indeed provide evidence of a thought process as suggested by the most active state of unconscious brain function—REM sleep.

I will end my discussion here but will remain available for your further thoughts and critique if interest persists.