Unconditional bias justification

[Gwizzle39]

Have you ever noticed that when 2 children disagree more often than not the parents will also agree with their child and against the other child despite normally not being involved in the dispute.

 

Whilst we all like to think of ourselves as fair and just, our minds somehow have a way of overriding our rational thought process.

 

As a parent we inherit a maternal/paternal instinct that will help us nurture and develop our relationship with our child however on the flip side of that point we also develop a natural bias towards our offspring.

 

As society evolves it seems our biases are also evolving, if you compare the parenting techniques of the last 50 years we can notice a significant difference, whereas before if I child was sent home from school then they would receive a stern riposte with possibly even physical connotations but jump to modern times and whilst this is not accurate in all cases you will notice a big difference if a child is sent home from school quite often they will go unpunished and in some extreme cases the parents will even question the school/educator.

 

Personally I feel it is time to try and overcome our biases to make a more harmonious world in which our children can flourish it was Wordsworth who wrote to “err is to human” so just try and remember this simple technique the next time your child is involved in an altercation just ask yourself “is my child being an asshole” 

 

Gareth weekes 😁

[zapatos]

My children, wife, siblings and friends are all 'right' until sufficient evidence to the contrary is obtained.

[Phi for All]

2 hours ago, Gwizzle39 said:

Have you ever noticed that when 2 children disagree more often than not the parents will also agree with their child and against the other child despite normally not being involved in the dispute.

Are you saying this agreement is always for the same child? Because more often than not, there is a right and a wrong stance in disagreements between children. I would hope the parents know the difference between that and mere conflicting opinions. 

I think it was Russell Peters the comedian who pointed out that, if you have two kids and one of them falls down the stairs, your reaction as a parent depends which one it is. One of them will make you jump out of your chair and rush to make sure they're all right. If it's the other one, you shake your head and roll your eyes first before levering yourself out of the chair to saunter over and see what the hell they did this time. You love them both equally, but you know them well, too.

[Peterkin]

1 hour ago, Gwizzle39 said:

Have you ever noticed that when 2 children disagree more often than not the parents will also agree with their child and against the other child despite normally not being involved in the dispute.

Protection of one's own genetic investment from outsiders is a far older instinct than humans. OTOH, the same parent, as soon as the other child is gone, may take their own child to task for his part in the conflict, and very possibly impose some penalty. When arbitrating a dispute between two of their own offspring, parents can be impartial, fair, biased toward one or the other child, punitive or lenient, micro-managing or hands-off. Generally, their aim is to teach their children values and social skills that will serve them well in adult life. The philosophies, cultural norms, styles and levels of competence vary widely, but the intent is generally the same as for an elephant or stoat.  

1 hour ago, Gwizzle39 said:

As society evolves it seems our biases are also evolving,

Maybe so, but I don't believe this is happening in the same way in all societies. In the example of the child being sent home from school, there are very many factors, which have also changed over the decades: school policy, the reasons a child might be sent home, the parents' level of confidence in the system and in the teacher - and how much upheaval this kind of incident causes in a household. Your example would certainly have been true of the majority of people in European-derived cultures up to the middle of the last century or slightly beyond: trust in the system was high; there was an expectation of permanence, so that children were required to conform to existing norms.

(Even so, my grandfather, in 1930, had a teacher removed from his children's school for cruelty - not to them, but to their classmates of a different religion. He listened to his kids, believed them and investigated the situation. He also never, on principle, hit a woman, a subordinate, a child, a dog or a horse. What's usual is not universal; it's the exceptions that inspire change.)

An atmosphere of uncertainty and distrust began to manifest (in North America; I think Europe was already on a different path) in the 1970's. There followed a drawing-in, a circling of wagons around kin, congregation, community, world-view and growing suspicion of - if not outright hostility toward - outsiders.

1 hour ago, Gwizzle39 said:

try and remember this simple technique the next time your child is involved in an altercation just ask yourself “is my child being an asshole” 

For most people, that's far too self-reflexive a question ever to ask.

1 hour ago, Gwizzle39 said:

Personally I feel it is time to try and overcome our biases to make a more harmonious world in which our children can flourish

I do not see such a world on any horizon.    

Edited October 22, 2021 by Peterkin
afterthought

[beecee]

6 hours ago, Gwizzle39 said:

Have you ever noticed that when 2 children disagree more often than not the parents will also agree with their child and against the other child despite normally not being involved in the dispute.

Not at all.

6 hours ago, Gwizzle39 said:

As society evolves it seems our biases are also evolving, if you compare the parenting techniques of the last 50 years we can notice a significant difference, whereas before if I child was sent home from school then they would receive a stern riposte with possibly even physical connotations but jump to modern times and whilst this is not accurate in all cases you will notice a big difference if a child is sent home from school quite often they will go unpunished and in some extreme cases the parents will even question the school/educator.

 

I was sent home from school once. My old man after listening to my factual account of what happened, took me back to the Principal, relayed the story, found out I was telling the truth, and profusley apologised to my Father and myself. The next day I took justice into my own hands and gave the other student who was the culprit a black eye. I was then rightly punished with four of the best. (or was that six?) 

4 hours ago, Peterkin said:

there was an expectation of permanence, so that children were required to conform to existing norms.

A reasonable request I suggest, with relation to the type of school a student attends.

4 hours ago, Peterkin said:

(Even so, my grandfather, in 1930, had a teacher removed from his children's school for cruelty - not to them, but to their classmates of a different religion. He listened to his kids, believed them and investigated the situation. He also never, on principle, hit a woman, a subordinate, a child, a dog or a horse. What's usual is not universal; it's the exceptions that inspire change.)

Yes some teacher's can be cruel and that is to be abhorred. But let me say that having attended a Catholic school all my life, where corporal punishment was given when required, and still having regular old boys reunions, ( still 9 of us regularly attending) none of us had anything but praise and gratitude for the Christian Brothers/teachers that we encountered, including the liberal ( yet justified) amounts of corporal punishment administered. We were at times little arseholes!

4 hours ago, Peterkin said:

For most people, that's far too self-reflexive a question ever to ask.  

Not necessarilly. Decent parents in all respects, can also raise little arseholes that turn out a dredge and drain on society. By the same token parents that are a dredge and drain on society, can have children that turn out as upstanding citizens of society...first person that comes to mind is Anne Sullivan, the teacher and mentor of Helen Keller, and incidently the subject of an incredible movie.

Edited October 22, 2021 by beecee

[Peterkin]

18 minutes ago, beecee said:

Yes some teacher's can be cruel and that is to be abhorred. But let me say that having attended a Catholic school all my life, where corporal punishment was given when required, and still having regular old boys reunions, ( still 9 of us regularly attending) none of us had anything but praise and gratitude for the Christian Brothers/teachers that we encountered, including the liberal ( yet justified) amounts of corporal punishment administered. We were at times little arseholes!

Some forms of corporal punishment was generally accepted in boys' schools in those days, but in girls' schools, even at the elementary level, they did no more than a light rap on the hand with a pointer. Even if a female teacher had been empowered to hit students, a man certainly would not have been. That priest made the Protestant students kneel outside in the unheated hall during religious studies - in a public school, where he was a guest teacher. (My two older aunts were Catholic.)    

[beecee]

1 minute ago, Peterkin said:

Some forms of corporal punishment was generally accepted in boys' schools in those days, but in girls' schools, even at the elementary level, they did no more than a light rap on the hand with a pointer. Even if a female teacher had been empowered to hit students, a man certainly would not have been. That priest made the Protestant students kneel outside in the unheated hall during religious studies - in a public school, where he was a guest teacher. (My two older aunts were Catholic.)    

Only ever had one experience where I needed to be rough with a couple of girls...I was around 14 years old and my 10 year old sister was being monstered by two other older girls, for whatever reasons I don't know. She (my sister) had her hair in plaits and one of each older girl had a plait and were dragging her along the grass. I didn't hit them, but very roughly threw them away and onto the grass. Can't really comment too much on corporal punishment for school girls in my era.

[Peterkin]

1 hour ago, beecee said:

Can't really comment too much on corporal punishment for school girls in my era.

That's okay; it was about parental intervention, anyway, not siblings taking sides. However, it is quite natural for a brother or sister to defend younger siblings, especially if they're outclassed in a fight, regardless of whether the little brother or sister was in the right. You stop the fight first, ask questions later. When you do talk to the kid, it's also quite natural and common for the older sibling to give the younger one advice on how to avoid, handle, survive, and if possible win a conflict with peers. It's bias, but it's one most people can't (and don't want to) get over. Loyalty begets loyalty: you want siblings to be on your side, as you are on theirs, no matter what.