Cancel Culture-Split from: Jordan Peterson's ideas on politis

[Peterkin]

55 minutes ago, iNow said:

Death threats. The ultimate cancel culture. 

Doesn't sound PC to me!

As for the statistical difference between old people and young on their attitude to inclusive/civil public discourse, it's not quite as simple as that looks. What it really means is that people who are old now were young and middle-aged when they advocated for or pushed back against the modification of language to reflect a wider acceptance of differences - and that generation is still divided along the same line - while people who are young adults now have grown up with the changed norm and take it for granted. They don't make offensive ethnic jokes or call damaged war veterans 'cripple', simply because in their formative years, that was no longer an approved attitude. But some of the reactionary old have still not gotten over losing.      

Edited November 12, 2021 by Peterkin

[CharonY]

47 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

What it really means is that people who are old now were young and middle-aged when they advocated for or pushed back against the modification of language to reflect a wider acceptance of differences - and that generation is still divided along the same line - while people who are young adults now have grown up with the changed norm and take it for granted.

I do not see a contradiction here. That could be a reason for the data that we see and is quintessentially why old folks complain about stuff. Things seem to be different than they are used to (whether it is the case or not) and it makes them angry. 

[Peterkin]

21 minutes ago, CharonY said:

Things seem to be different than they are used to (whether it is the case or not) and it makes them angry. 

It makes one faction of them angry: the ones who are still fighting for their lost privilege, and they're not done fighting. It wouldn't be a significant distinction - it wouldn't even matter what old people think - except that the anti-PC faction is less willing to withdraw from the fray. As time passes and the old PC leaders hand over the reins to their younger lieutenants, the intransigent faction doesn't. Battles progress from arguing in civil court over offensive language on stage, to social media hounding of people who disagree, threats of violence, overt violence, and the tactics are not the same on both sides. Biden, Trump and Sanders are the same age, but not of the same generational mind-set, and the armies they recruited don't fight by the same rules. 

Maybe none of that has any part in shaping cancel culture, or whatever this fashion is. But I'm pretty sure it doesn't just break down along a generational divide, and isn't due to people merely resenting change. It's deeper, more complicated and more dangerous than polls show. 

[MigL]

Oh, I see.
Old people are not allowed to voice their view of the world.
They are simply  angry old men/women who resist change.
A young person would say they are almost 'delusional'.
How is that for youth privilege ?

Again, does a person's subjective world view only count when you agree with it ???

[CharonY]

1 hour ago, MigL said:

Oh, I see.
Old people are not allowed to voice their view of the world.
They are simply  angry old men/women who resist change.
A young person would say they are almost 'delusional'.
How is that for youth privilege ?

Again, does a person's subjective world view only count when you agree with it ???

Well, going back to the actual point of the article, despite the rift between younger and older folks, overall there is actually little evidence that the perspectives on "woke" matters is noticeably different from the rest of the population. I.e. even if older folks are more concerned, about PC being overboard, the actual proportion of folks agreeing with what seems to be PC notions is actually low and with regard to language use, the popularity of these fall around 30-10%. 

In other words, folks, regardless whether being college graduates or not, are more concerned about things being too PC rather than agreeing with PC notions. Thus, the worry does not seem to align with the actual existing elements folks are worrying about.

This, btw. is in line with what we have experienced in the other thread. Folks being worried about the use of alternative pronouns are far outweighed by actual experiences (in college) regarding requests for the use of these pronouns. College graduates agree more than those without a degree that cancel culture is a bit issue (more than 50% compared to ~40%). So at least this poll does throw a wrench in the notion that the university is overrun by indoctrinated "SJWs". But then if they are not it, who is?

[Peterkin]

55 minutes ago, MigL said:

Old people are not allowed to voice their view of the world.

According to whom? Who or what is stopping them? Nobody can: they own the media.

56 minutes ago, MigL said:

They are simply  angry old men/women who resist change.

Some are. Some are angry old change-makers. Some don't care one way or the other. Some used to care, but don't anymore. Old people are not all the same.

58 minutes ago, MigL said:

A young person would say they are almost 'delusional'.

Which young person would say that?

59 minutes ago, MigL said:

How is that for youth privilege ?

It isn't, and there isn't any. Does this group look young?  

59 minutes ago, MigL said:

Again, does a person's subjective world view only count when you agree with it ???

Most people's never count at all.

[MigL]

I just substituted old people for people who demand others use preferred pronouns.
I used similar arguments as have been used to defend the demanding of preferred pronoun use.
There is such a thing as age discrimination, you know 😄 .

And old people die in greater numbers than the general population 😁 .

[Peterkin]

57 minutes ago, MigL said:

I just substituted old people for people who demand others use preferred pronouns.

I'm sure you had a reason.

[MigL]

As you probably did for that reply ...

[beecee]

19 hours ago, CharonY said:

That could be a reason for the data that we see and is quintessentially why old folks complain about stuff. Things seem to be different than they are used to (whether it is the case or not) and it makes them angry. 

Don't knock us old bastards! We're there, you young ones have yet to get there!!!😉

I suppose in some instances and with some older people, changes annoy them. It annoys me for example, when I see kids today in front of the TV, staring at a mobile phone, or playing some type of Internet game. In my day I was (risking my life)out riding billy carts down the hill of the street I lived in, exploring old military installations, tunnels etc around the cliffs of Sydney, ( again risking our lives) making rafts out of timber and old corrugated Iron and sailing on some swamp in some of the undeveloped (at that time) areas on the outskirts of Sydney and playing pirates, and building bon fires and letting off crackers on Empire night, including blowing up the occasional letter box with some big bungers, ahhh memories!!! but gee we had great fun!!! 😄

[CharonY]

2 hours ago, beecee said:

on't knock us old bastards! We're there, you young ones have yet to get there!!!

Don't quote me, but I feel you. Even in the almost two decades in academia (in different capacities) the culture in labs has changed and what you can expect from new students (or even how they interact with you). Some is rather innocuous but requires some recalibration, which can get annoying until you are used to it. But cellphones, god, at least put them down when I am in front of you and directly talk to you!

[swansont]

So, not "cancel culture" but another example of political buzzword-pimping (from https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/11/15/most-republicans-oppose-teaching-kids-about-lingering-effects-racism/ )

Things like this, or migrant caravans, or whatever the manufactured outrage du jour is, gets played up in the media - especially right-wing media - whenever the base needs to be riled up

 

 

 

So hey, if you are getting backlash from something you said or did? Blame cancel culture to deflect the controversy away from yourself. Attack anyone trying to hold you accountable for your actions or words.

 

[iNow]

Benghazi!! 

[TheVat]

Haha!   And when all else fails, reference MS-13.  Whatever your critic stands for,  make sure it includes rolling out the red carpet for Salvadoran murder gangs.   And make sure your nearest Murdoch owned media outlet runs a continuous feed of MS-13 horror stories. 

 

[dimreepr]

24 minutes ago, TheVat said:

Haha!   And when all else fails, reference MS-13.  Whatever your critic stands for,  make sure it includes rolling out the red carpet for Salvadoran murder gangs.   And make sure your nearest Murdoch owned media outlet runs a continuous feed of MS-13 horror stories. 

 

We're only free to be me...

[TheVat]

Thank you, Yoda!