Covid vaccination reaction figures.

[studiot]

For those that might be interested.

In the area covered by our local district hospital they have now administerd about 245,000 covid vaccinations, mostly Pfizer with some AZ and lately some Moderna.

In they started this in January 2020 and since then there have been 3 anaphalactic like reactions, none with serious lasting effects.

Of these one proved to be actually an epileptic episode, that would likely have happened anyway and nothing to do with the vaccination.

The other two were promptly and successfully dealt with by the attendant medical staff.

[PhilGeis]

Doesn't change the conclusion of very rare reaction - but -an overly favorable summary.  Adverse reactions are not reported in this way.

Three should be reported as those observe not absolute.  Reactions may have been experienced beyond surveillance.  

"Likely would have happened", "nothing to do" and "promptly and successfully treated" are overly-favorable speculation.

[studiot]

2 hours ago, PhilGeis said:

Doesn't change the conclusion of very rare reaction - but -an overly favorable summary.  Adverse reactions are not reported in this way.

Three should be reported as those observe not absolute.  Reactions may have been experienced beyond surveillance.  

"Likely would have happened", "nothing to do" and "promptly and successfully treated" are overly-favorable speculation.

 

Thank you for response, which was even briefer than my original post.

Since you wre the only one interested enough to respond at all +1.

However you have jumped to some unjustifiable conclusions in your response, particularly as to the source of my information and the phrase

"promptly and successfully treated" , which was indeed absolute and correct, rather than an overly-favourable speculation.

 

[swansont]

On 11/20/2021 at 4:51 PM, studiot said:

For those that might be interested.

In the area covered by our local district hospital they have now administerd about 245,000 covid vaccinations, mostly Pfizer with some AZ and lately some Moderna.

In they started this in January 2020 and since then there have been 3 anaphalactic like reactions, none with serious lasting effects.

Of these one proved to be actually an epileptic episode, that would likely have happened anyway and nothing to do with the vaccination.

The other two were promptly and successfully dealt with by the attendant medical staff.

Do you know if these reactions were occurring in the span of time the recipients are waiting after the shot (15 min was my experience); it sounds like that, given the “prompt attention”

If so, PhilGeis’s “beyond surveillance” objection is moot; these numbers would not be anecdotal, since everyone is being observed.

[studiot]

51 minutes ago, swansont said:

Do you know if these reactions were occurring in the span of time the recipients are waiting after the shot (15 min was my experience); it sounds like that, given the “prompt attention”

If so, PhilGeis’s “beyond surveillance” objection is moot; these numbers would not be anecdotal, since everyone is being observed.

Thank you for your response.

Yes I can confirm that all three incidents were pretty immediate following rhe shot.

(Isn't that what happens in anaphalaxis as opposed to any old reaction ?)

UK innoculation staff are all trained to watch for and be able to deal with any reaction followng the origninal Dumfries case.

Of course I should have specified adverse reaction, after all we all hope to have some (favourable) response to the shot.

I had no personally detectable response to my first two shots, but on the most recent third (booster) i had no response before I went to bed the night of the shot but has a slightly sore area on my arm at the innoculation site the following morning. This faded over the following couple of days.

 

The actual reports are numerically exact but not gained from the covid monitoring programme but from the hospital's own incident (of any sort) monitoring programme.
Every reportable incident is reviewed, categorized and catalogued for any appropriate follow up action.

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by studiot

[PhilGeis]

Everyone was observed while present, beyio

1 hour ago, swansont said:

Do you know if these reactions were occurring in the span of time the recipients are waiting after the shot (15 min was my experience); it sounds like that, given the “prompt attention”

If so, PhilGeis’s “beyond surveillance” objection is moot; these numbers would not be anecdotal, since everyone is being observed.

Everyone was observed for a time - beyond surveillance addressed time.  Adverse reaction may not be within time of survelliance.

1 hour ago, studiot said:

 

Thank you for response, which was even briefer than my original post.

Since you wre the only one interested enough to respond at all +1.

However you have jumped to some unjustifiable conclusions in your response, particularly as to the source of my information and the phrase

"promptly and successfully treated" , which was indeed absolute and correct, rather than an overly-favourable speculation.

 

I jumped to no conclusion.  Prompt and successful is subjectiuve and would not be appropriate description for reporting adverse reaction to FDA.

[studiot]

9 minutes ago, PhilGeis said:

I jumped to no conclusion.  Prompt and successful is subjectiuve and would not be appropriate description for reporting adverse reaction to FDA.

There's an unjustifed jump to a conclusion right there.

Who or what the hell is FDA and what does reporting the FDA have to do with the price of bacon ?

[swansont]

9 hours ago, PhilGeis said:

Everyone was observed for a time - beyond surveillance addressed time.  Adverse reaction may not be within time of survelliance.

The protocol suggests that this is the likely result. 

[PhilGeis]

What does FDA have to do with this?  It approves the vaccine and monitors and potentially responds to  adverse repot data - https://vaers.hhs.gov/  .  It would find comments such as -prob would happened anyway - and prompt and successful treatment -  pretty poor.

Any report would include qualification of those monitoring, whether active or passive, period through which monitoring was effected, voluntary reports from vaccinated after monitoring, specifics of reactions observed, how treated, criteria by which resolution was determined, etc.

What protocol that?  In any case, relevant protocols do not suggest - they are methodology.   Clearly there are can be post release reactions - https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/moderna/reactogenicity.html

 

 

[studiot]

37 minutes ago, PhilGeis said:

What does FDA have to do with this?  It approves the vaccine and monitors and potentially responds to  adverse repot data

 

Outside the USA ?

[PhilGeis]

Poor surveillance reports anywhere - are poor reports.

What was origin?

[studiot]

1 hour ago, PhilGeis said:

Poor surveillance reports anywhere - are poor reports.

What was origin?

I consider jumping to conclusions without ascertaining the facts, to be pretty poor Science.

 

[swansont]

On 11/23/2021 at 6:59 AM, PhilGeis said:

What protocol that? 

Having people wait 15 minutes before leaving. That suggests that adverse reactions like anaphylaxis are expected to be pretty much immediate.

On 11/23/2021 at 6:59 AM, PhilGeis said:

In any case, relevant protocols do not suggest - they are methodology.   Clearly there are can be post release reactions - https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/moderna/reactogenicity.html

Those are side effects, which AFAIK are not anaphylactic-like reactions.

[PhilGeis]

Waiting 15 minutes is conventional and is driven by the majority of reactions observed and the practical aspect of maintaining folks cooperation. but certainly does not indicate absence of subsequent reactions, including a anaphylaxis.   "Symptoms of anaphylaxis often occur within 15-30 minutes of vaccination, though it can sometimes take several hours for symptoms to appear."

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/clinical-considerations/managing-anaphylaxis.html

Where any reported subsequently?  Was there a means of reporting >established for the vaccinated after exit?  What was protocol for treatment -  epinephrine? antihistamine?  What was "successfully treated"? Recall anaphylaxis may manifest in those appearing to recover.  How long did those folks stick around? 

 

 

 

 

[beecee]

Had the Moderna booster shot today after previous two Astra Zenaca shots.....As per previous injections, no reactions.

Edited December 16, 2021 by beecee

[exchemist]

On 11/28/2021 at 8:26 AM, PhilGeis said:

Waiting 15 minutes is conventional and is driven by the majority of reactions observed and the practical aspect of maintaining folks cooperation. but certainly does not indicate absence of subsequent reactions, including a anaphylaxis.   "Symptoms of anaphylaxis often occur within 15-30 minutes of vaccination, though it can sometimes take several hours for symptoms to appear."

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/clinical-considerations/managing-anaphylaxis.html

Where any reported subsequently?  Was there a means of reporting >established for the vaccinated after exit?  What was protocol for treatment -  epinephrine? antihistamine?  What was "successfully treated"? Recall anaphylaxis may manifest in those appearing to recover.  How long did those folks stick around? 

 

 

 

 

There may be some misunderstanding here. @studiot is talking about the UK, where I am also located. So the US FDA is not relevant.

Here, we have a National Health Service. If someone were to suffer an anaphylactic reaction, after going home from a vaccination, any medical treatment they received would come from the NHS, who would rapidly ascertain that the patient had just had a Covid vaccination.

So there is no doubt that the NHS,  having administered tens of millions of vaccinations, would know by now if such events were significant. We do know, from the campaign, about various rare side effects of the different vaccines. Everyone has been on the lookout for them and has been reporting them. There is no way that a serious and dramatic effect like anaphylaxis would somehow have been missed. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by exchemist

[studiot]

5 hours ago, beecee said:

Had the Moderna booster shot today after previous two Astra Zenaca shots.....As per previous injections, no reactions.

Thank for telling us. +1

 

2 hours ago, exchemist said:

There may be some misunderstanding here. @studiot is talking about the UK, where I am also located. So the US FDA is not relevant.

We should all do what we can to progress the situation, even if it is just swapping data.

I'm glad someone reads my posts properly. +1