Does freewill exist ? Is it biblical ? Or is there is something else ?

[Arikel88]

We have freewill God lets us decide to do good or bad and our purpose in life is when we make that decision. it's easy to not know that purpose because we are different. But freewill God gives it but he also gives us the law and the law is not wrong and niether is freewill just soceity itself is wrong and we have forgotten what is the normal back in those days. Society mistakes and thinks G-d is against freewill but gave freewill the right to choose and they have invented freewill is voting, paying taxes, and civics duties.

No people those things are the mistake modern society makes because they think they have evolved in such A way they surpass all of Israel back in those day but truth G-d is fair and gave us all. We have lost what is important love because human society is wrong and it's foundation is false and invented by masons.

G-d created it all the rocks, the atmosphere, everything has been giving and from all that we have built buildings and empires everything we have built has come from him modern world is our work and act but we do not acknowledge them we take the glory and everything for we are sinful. The concept of government we have created but we emulated it from G-d and his kingdom the order G-d has it first, the structure he establish since the dawn of the universe.

We have created rights but we cannot use our rights agaisnt G-d and say he has violated them or civic manner say our freedom and establishment of our democracy hits against G-d and his kingdom. For he has the kingdom and the law. The law of his word and we do not have that for G-d gave us words but we are babylon the law is only his. Nor it belongs to hebrew people, eunuchs, or angels it only belongs to him to judge.

Our own system is flaw because we copy from each empire that has been establish Babylon, Rome, Greece, Britian, and Nazi Germany. Each has given its concept of right and law and all have copied each other and failed. Because again bible has establish that G-d and his system works and we with our notion of democracy and rights have copied on Rome and Babylon and they are wrong.

The most important things that because we have technology which has help us after world war 2 we think we have surpass it all and enter the digitla world and we circumvalent our promblems of family, corruption, and normal things we had before the 1950's and think we are gods. And we want to be eternal and to be like powerful like G-d because it is what we have always been thinking because all of it is copy. When we are original and have the right system like he does everything works but our government and system does not because we are with flaws and our own boundaries aren't the solutions they are A reminder that we will never have A perfect system thus our rights and belief in them cannot be the truth.

The freewill is revealed that there is A difference from freewill with G-d on accepting the right and wrong and succeeding in that way and from freewill from our modern concept which has failed and clashes with G-d's law which is right and truth and unless we do not use our rights against G-d freewill is that what we make only A lie and it existence false.

Freewill from that point of view is that of society and since society has masonry in it and all foundations of masonery is babylon and Dagon it compells people to make G-d like unfair despotism but you cannot apply that to G-d for he is G-d and he is God of Gods those words are just feeble people who make laws copying the old empires and fallacy arrives in it's policy.

There is A way government can follow G-d's politics but that will be another day. But people and society will always collapse confronting and using thier rights and saying there is no freewill when you have to one understand things from G-d's point of view understand what serveth the law, how the law is completed thru love and how faith as A tool helps you make A better realtionship with G-d.

When you find the truth and love in his way that G-d establish thru Jesus Christ you understand A secret way which freewill co-exist with G-d and love is what that bound unites it and makes freewill work but not under modern society but thru G-d mosaic law and know that is true freewill has been given to you but from the stance of modern world and republics establish go into error. I will explain more but have did A lot.

[zapatos]

Is "G-d" a god? Which god are we talking about here? Is this from a particular Christian sect? I've never seen any reference to a god named "G-d" so would like some clarification.

[Arikel88]

G-d you zapatos if your so check every letter you know it is how Judaism writes G-d's name and no sect or are you calling hebrews sects ?

Want verses here ;D.

 

We start from the beggining when Adam was giving the power to name the animals G-d gave him freewill to choose Genesis 2:20.
20 The man gave names to all livestock and to the birds of the heavens and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper fit for him.


Here G-d gives Adam gives him ability to think for himself and he decide the animals name.


There is difference from the freewill Hebrew people back in the days of Noah and Moses when the law was directed to G-d’s people they had freewill to decide. Their decision is under the law because they did not know other religions or ways they were narrowminded but still the decision from good and evil existed. Did the errors of their fathers before them I mean the fall of Adam stopped them making decisions in their life. Israel did what they want based still of need of surviving. Killing, eating, proceating needs of humanity but no matter what the error of Adam did not take freewill from them.


Romans 7:19 “For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.”


Ezekiel 18:20 “The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.”


Psalm 110:2 “Your people will volunteer freely in the day of Your power; In holy array, from the womb of the dawn, Your youth are to You as the dew.”


From the day pagans evolved into modern world and establish their own way. Even thou they seperated from their pagan worhsip Rome forced them to mix their deities and influence with christianism and robbed the followers of Christ of Jesus and they painted him white. Named the G-d of Israel to Zeus and change their panteon.


Hebrew law or mosaic law reminds people to obey but G-d has taken prophets to save and do the will of G-d in wars, missions, and choosing good and evil. They break the law in disobeying G-d, prophets like Jeremiah who chose G-d disobey tradition and his father and told Israel their errors and love for the temple forgotten the temple inside they are made of. Kick Jeremiah out of their circle rejected from society he continued, we have Elijah who many don’t talk about but he change the words of G-d and sentence Jezabel but G-d only wanted to punish Jezabel but Elijah added her family as punishment. G-d was angry at Elijah but forgave him. Still G-d’s plan was only Jezabel but he made an exception for Elijah and freewill existed and changed yes G-d allows it.


People can change their course in life but what is the promblem from today. Is how the Greek way of thinking of liberalism was popular in the time of Jesus.


James 2:12 “So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.”


2 Corinthians 3:17 “Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.”


And Greeks influence the time of jesus that people like Luke wrote his book in the bible and later Catholic church not knowing fully Hebrew culture copied things from greeks and influence the bible. Remember they were not G-d’s people but A country that stoled and wrote their intrepretation of G-d and took Jesus as an emblema that is not real.


Greek theology is freedom and rationalist thought, Hebrew people is Law and Relation with the one G-d. Greeks have influence the modernworld and gives them right, the western world copies Greek and Roman culture and their diffinity in their laws have given the modern topic freewill. So freewill clashes with freewill in the old times. That is why everything has to do with predestination, Calvanism go ahead and read see all our versions of choosing good and evil have consequences but still you decide your future.


There are 2 fields :indeterminism and determinism explain modern freewill and both give notion of control. Indeterminism means free acts are not determine in other words what you do with works does not foretold your future and the path you have chosen. Determinism says everything you do has already decided your future and you have no career. Nothing can change your destiny but G-d can.


Matthew 12:37 “For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”


God’s general sovereignty- says god is in charge of everything but doesn’t control everything
God’s specific sovereignty- says that He not only has ordained everything, but He also controls everything.


Proverbs 16:9 “The mind of the man plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps.


Proverbs 3:5-6“Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight.”

[Peterkin]

31 minutes ago, Arikel88 said:

We have freewill God lets us decide to do good or bad and our purpose in life is when we make that decision.

Only because God doesn't understand about evolution or psychology, which are recent discoveries. If he thinks that human decision-making is free and unhampered, he's not alone in that delusion.  If it makes him feel good to think he invented and gifted it to people, humour the poor old guy.

[Arikel88]

They are philosophy but word none the less that explain we were given choice we use those words but still the meaning that we have freedom and God gave us this for he is God and we do not understand all his powers he gave A choice to do good or bad. The word we are given is in hebrew and in hebrew those terms do not exist but still we know God loves us and for his shows the universe he does not force because love is unconditional and not by force shows real love and worship and he wants us to be real followers.

 

We have freewill not based on power, innocence, good, or evil we have freewill because of our innate conscience of who is G-d and he exists thus giving us our purpose.

[zapatos]

13 minutes ago, Arikel88 said:

G-d you zapatos if your so check every letter you know it is how Judaism writes G-d's name and no sect or are you calling hebrews sects ?

 

I can't tell what you are saying. Can you please say it a different way?

4 minutes ago, Arikel88 said:

we have freedom and God gave us this

How do you know that?

[Arikel88]

What O-O what do yo mean ? I said it.

 

Because G-d is not A G-d of Force if so everythign would of being decided and you will not choose instead no one would have entered in sin but be in paradise. But for we have made error we all have choice to be abptized and saved or not be saved.

[zapatos]

1 minute ago, Arikel88 said:

What O-O what do yo mean ?

I'm afraid your English skills may not be sufficient to communicate on this site. 

[Arikel88]

Perhaps Zapatos your question was wrong and what you refering was not really understable to others. Don't think everyone thinks like you or in humble words like me either please explain for I do not wish to be banned for disagreeing with you.

 

People understand what I wrote here but you understand but you wish to talk to me in A personal level. Let time pass and you will see I have abundance of knowledge biblical and 22 years beings A christian and above my 40's

[zapatos]

Which part of the following did you not understand? I'll try to rephrase the questions.

"I can't tell what you are saying. Can you please say it a different way?"

21 minutes ago, Arikel88 said:

What O-O what do yo mean ?

What does the term "O-O" mean? I don't know how to respond to your question because I do not know what you are talking about.

[iNow]

13 minutes ago, Arikel88 said:

I do not wish to be banned for disagreeing with you.

When it happens (which all available evidence thus far indicates as the most likely outcome), that definitely won’t be the reason. 

[beecee]

1 hour ago, Arikel88 said:

Perhaps Zapatos your question was wrong and what you refering was not really understable to others. Don't think everyone thinks like you or in humble words like me either please explain for I do not wish to be banned for disagreeing with you.

People understand what I wrote here but you understand but you wish to talk to me in A personal level. Let time pass and you will see I have abundance of knowledge biblical and 22 years beings A christian and above my 40's

You won't be banned for disagreeing with anyone. You are at a science forum, and while certainly this is in the religious section, the scientists here, and others like myself, have every right to question your "absolute claims"  specifically when they are not supported by evidence.

The bible is simply an obscure book, mostly based on myth, written in an obscure age, by obscure men. If you want yes answers with no questions asked re your claim,  then your best bet is to go to a forum where similar unscientific beliefs are the norm...Freewill is imho, simply a product of evolution that enables reasonably advanced Apes to make decisions, reason, chose, and act independantly. Others might argue that in reality we do not have freewill, as that and us, are governed by the laws of physics. Also the quantum world and/or determinism may have some effect on what some may determine as freewill.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40509-014-0008-4

"Quantum theory and determinism usually do not go together. A natural combination is quantum theory and randomness. ... But I feel that we should not give up the idea that the Universe is governed by a deterministic law. Quantum theory is correct, but determinism is correct too".

https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s40509-014-0008-4.pdf

 Abstract:

Historically, appearance of the quantum theory led to a prevailing view that Nature is indeterministic. The arguments for the indeterminism and proposals for indeterministic and deterministic approaches are reviewed. These include collapse theories, Bohmian Mechanics and the many-worlds interpretation. It is argued that ontic interpretations of the quantum wave function provide simpler and clearer physical explanation and that the manyworlds interpretation is the most attractive since it provides a deterministic and local theory for our physical Universe explaining the illusion of randomness and nonlocality in the world we experience.

6 Conclusions:

"In this paper, I reviewed the interpretations and the fundamental aspects of quantum mechanics, arguing that, contrary to a popular view, quantum theory can be considered as a deterministic theory describing Nature. The theory has two parts. The first part is physical, mathematical, the one to which I attach the words “ontological” or “ontic” (without attributing a distinction between them). It is a counterpart of the theory of particles and fields in classical physics. This is the part of a theory about what is in the physical Universe. Although I discussed several approaches, I find by far the best option to take the wave function of the Universe, and only it, as the ontology of the theory. Major part of the paper explains why I have this view. I also review numerous recent works on the subject pointing in this direction. The theory of the wave function is a deterministic theory without action at a distance. It is the theory about what is, irrespectively of us. Even quantum observables, like momentum, energy, spin, etc. which are frequently considered to be the starting point of quantum mechanics, are not considered ontological in this approach. Thus, various uncertainty relations between quantum variables do not lead to indeterminism".

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

personally, I havn't got a bloody clue as to where freewill comes from, but am inclined to accept that it is simply a product of evolution.

 

[studiot]

5 hours ago, beecee said:

You won't be banned for disagreeing with anyone. You are at a science forum, and while certainly this is in the religious section, the scientists here, and others like myself, have every right to question your "absolute claims"  specifically when they are not supported by evidence.

etc

+1 for a genuine and very reasonable attempt to address the topic.

[Arikel88]

What they are eyes o-o saying what do you mean ? becuase different way I do not know how you mean to say different way ? Sorry but different way is that there are many ways but not sure what way you are saying so please be more simple in that explanation.

[iNow]

Who are you even talking too, bot?

[swansont]

12 hours ago, Arikel88 said:

We have freewill God lets us decide to do good or bad and our purpose in life is when we make that decision. it's easy to not know that purpose because we are different. But freewill God gives it but he also gives us the law and the law is not wrong and niether is freewill just soceity itself is wrong and we have forgotten what is the normal back in those days. Society mistakes and thinks G-d is against freewill but gave freewill the right to choose and they have invented freewill is voting, paying taxes, and civics duties.

No people those things are the mistake modern society makes because they think they have evolved in such A way they surpass all of Israel back in those day but truth G-d is fair and gave us all. We have lost what is important love because human society is wrong and it's foundation is false and invented by masons.

G-d created it all the rocks, the atmosphere, everything has been giving and from all that we have built buildings and empires everything we have built has come from him modern world is our work and act but we do not acknowledge them we take the glory and everything for we are sinful. The concept of government we have created but we emulated it from G-d and his kingdom the order G-d has it first, the structure he establish since the dawn of the universe.

We have created rights but we cannot use our rights agaisnt G-d and say he has violated them or civic manner say our freedom and establishment of our democracy hits against G-d and his kingdom. For he has the kingdom and the law. The law of his word and we do not have that for G-d gave us words but we are babylon the law is only his. Nor it belongs to hebrew people, eunuchs, or angels it only belongs to him to judge.

!

Moderator Note

Discuss freewill as you wish, but you need to do it without proselytizing.

 

 

[zapatos]

2 hours ago, Arikel88 said:

I do not know how you mean to say different way ?

And that is why I suggested your level of english may not allow you to communicate successfully on this site.

[Bufofrog]

14 hours ago, zapatos said:

I can't tell what you are saying.

I think what he is doing is because in the Torah the writing is in consonants only, so when he uses the English word God he only uses the consonants.  Why he is doing that is beyond me.

[zapatos]

2 hours ago, Bufofrog said:

I think what he is doing is because in the Torah the writing is in consonants only, so when he uses the English word God he only uses the consonants.  Why he is doing that is beyond me.

Thanks. Learned something new today!

[Arikel88]

I'm no bot just A very vivid writter with very vast amount of knowledge and understanding. Know we have freewill some deny it but to deny that we can choose is to deny the very thing we are and that is to be human. We human can make our own destiny did freewill exist before creation ? yes it was the devil and he is an example one that I do not like but still he coveted the lord's power and wish to be on his throne that is only he's. He was without flaw and yet he went to error and paid the price no being human isn't the cause of freewill, the devil choosed to do wrong because he thought and thinking of your conscience is what makes us think we were not made like the devil but we have something he does not salvation ! Really your thought you process and what you use with eyes are all part of human recognition in this world but never believed what your eyes say but what your heart says for he put good in your heart and is what gives us the tools to be on the path he wants.

 

Proverbs 3:5-6“Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight.”

Edited December 4, 2021 by Arikel88

[swansont]

!

Moderator Note

Can’t say you weren’t warned

Don’t bring this up again