War Games: Russia Takes Ukraine, China Takes Taiwan. US Response?

[Sensei]

5 minutes ago, TheVat said:

I liked Thomas Friedman's observation that a major invasion like this has no historical precedent because people didn't use to have smartphones -- acts of brutality, troop locations, etc are now less likely to be concealed in the fog of war.

The positions of Russian soldiers, flying planes, flying helicopters, flying missiles halfway to their targets, drones, are monitored by Western countries from satellites in real time and immediately transmitted to the Ukrainians..

That's how Qaddafi dictator was assassinated.. His convoy was observed by NATO from the sky and information about position and direction transmitted to rebel forces..

 

Edited February 26, 2022 by Sensei

[iNow]

3 minutes ago, mistermack said:

Yes, I am unfamiliar with the mind-reading technology. 

Anyway, the west had their choice, and they made it.

Good chat. Thanks for the exchange. 

1 minute ago, Sensei said:

immediately transmitted to the Ukrainians..

But not to civilians and onlookers around the whole world, which I suspect is closer to thevats point

[Sensei]

6 minutes ago, iNow said:

But not to civilians and onlookers around the whole world, which I suspect is closer to thevats point

App for Android/iOS to spread information about Russian troop movements? Just read GPS location and spread to the cloud..

[Phi for All]

On 2/24/2022 at 1:25 AM, Sensei said:

Putin's daughters will be RAPED and MURDERED.... and their children too... No one in his family in the XXII century will survive due to his current actions..

!

Moderator Note

If the rest of us are going to benefit from your perspective on this matter, you need to understand that posting barbarous responses to barbarous actions doesn't inspire meaningful discussion, and comments like this break many rules. If I suspend you for this, how can we learn from your perspective? Please feel free to post reasonable comments, but no more of this, Sensei.

 

[iNow]

17 minutes ago, Sensei said:

App for Android/iOS to spread information about Russian troop movements? Just read GPS location and spread to the cloud..

Exactly, the source of which being the very smartphones TheVat mentioned. Confused why this is confusing. 

[Sensei]

13 minutes ago, iNow said:

Exactly, the source of which being the very smartphones TheVat mentioned. Confused why this is confusing. 

In what ways is this confusing? And for whom? I just suggested creating a specialized application that the all people will install and it will do all this automatically and collect data of Russian soldiers movements..

 

Edited February 26, 2022 by Sensei

[TheVat]

57 minutes ago, iNow said:

 

But not to civilians and onlookers around the whole world, which I suspect is closer to thevats point

Yep.  @Sensei perhaps it is helpful to post Friedman's article.  (I think nonsubscribers get the first three paragraphs free, then 4 free articles if they give an email address)

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/25/opinion/putin-russia-ukraine.html

ETA - posted a freebie link, two posts down, in a Daily Kos article.

 

BTW, many thanks to @Alex_Krycek for posting Rachel Maddow's refreshingly clearheaded summation of the situation.  I don't watch cable news, so I only see her when someone links to a segment, and never regret clicking.  

 

Edited February 26, 2022 by TheVat
Add

[zapatos]

44 minutes ago, mistermack said:

Yes, I am unfamiliar with the mind-reading technology. 

Wow. Swing and a miss.

[TheVat]

Found a freebie link to Friedman....

https://www.dailykos.com/story/2022/2/25/2082461/-I-m-not-usually-impressed-by-Tom-Friedman-but-he-may-have-a-point-or-two-about-Ukraine-and-Russia

(Note that the link at the top of this article gives you free "subscribers friend" access to the original article)

A few paragraphs, to keep our esteemed mods happy...

 

The seven most dangerous words in journalism are: “The world will never be the same.” In over four decades of reporting, I have rarely dared use that phrase. But I’m going there now in the wake of Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine.

Our world is not going to be the same again because this war has no historical parallel. It is a raw, 18th-century-style land grab by a superpower — but in a 21st-century globalized world. This is the first war that will be covered on TikTok by super-empowered individuals armed only with smartphones, so acts of brutality will be documented and broadcast worldwide without any editors or filters. On the first day of the war, we saw invading Russian tank units unexpectedly being exposed by Google maps, because Google wanted to alert drivers that the Russian armor was causing traffic jams.

You have never seen this play before.

Yes, the Russian attempt to seize Ukraine is a throwback to earlier centuries — before the democracy revolutions in America and France — when a European monarch or Russian czar could simply decide that he wanted more territory, that the time was ripe to grab it, and so he did. And everyone in the region knew he would devour as much as he could and there was no global community to stop him.

In acting this way today, though, Putin is not only aiming to unilaterally rewrite the rules of the international system that have been in place since World War II — that no nation can just devour the nation next door — he is also out to alter that balance of power that he feels was imposed on Russia after the Cold War.

That balance — or imbalance in Putin’s view — was the humiliating equivalent of the Versailles Treaty’s impositions on Germany after World War I. In Russia’s case, it meant Moscow having to swallow NATO’s expansion not only to include the old Eastern European countries that had been part of the Soviet Union’s sphere of influence, like Poland, but even, in principle, states that were part of the Soviet Union itself, like Ukraine.

I see many people citing Robert Kagan’s fine book “The Jungle Grows Back” as a kind of shorthand for the return of this nasty and brutish style of geopolitics that Putin’s invasion manifests. But that picture is incomplete. Because this is not 1945 or 1989. We may be back in the jungle — but today the jungle is wired. It is wired together more intimately than ever before by telecommunications; satellites; trade; the internet; road, rail and air networks; financial markets; and supply chains. So while the drama of war is playing out within the borders of Ukraine, the risks and repercussions of Putin’s invasion are being felt across the globe — even in China, which has good cause to worry about its friend in the Kremlin.

Welcome to World War Wired — the first war in a totally interconnected world. This will be the Cossacks meet the World Wide Web. Like I said, you haven’t been here before....

 

[Sensei]

"Take the bodies of Russian soldiers to Russia: Ukraine has appealed to the Red Cross"

https://uacrisis.org/en/take-the-bodies-of-russian

 

No.

 

The bodies of the dead Russian soldiers should be transferred to Poland, and pictures will be taken there, and autopsy. And catalogued for all to see created on the Internet. The families of the Russians will be able to identify their children, fathers in these photos, and then fly to Poland to pick up the bodies from the morgue. One by one.

 

Otherwise, the bodies will be cremated to destroy the evidence, without the identification for which they have already prepared:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/02/23/russia-deploys-mobile-crematorium-follow-troops-battle/

 

Edited February 26, 2022 by Sensei

[StringJunky]

1 hour ago, TheVat said:

Found a freebie link to Friedman....

https://www.dailykos.com/story/2022/2/25/2082461/-I-m-not-usually-impressed-by-Tom-Friedman-but-he-may-have-a-point-or-two-about-Ukraine-and-Russia

(Note that the link at the top of this article gives you free "subscribers friend" access to the original article)

A few paragraphs, to keep our esteemed mods happy...

 

The seven most dangerous words in journalism are: “The world will never be the same.” In over four decades of reporting, I have rarely dared use that phrase. But I’m going there now in the wake of Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine.

Our world is not going to be the same again because this war has no historical parallel. It is a raw, 18th-century-style land grab by a superpower — but in a 21st-century globalized world. This is the first war that will be covered on TikTok by super-empowered individuals armed only with smartphones, so acts of brutality will be documented and broadcast worldwide without any editors or filters. On the first day of the war, we saw invading Russian tank units unexpectedly being exposed by Google maps, because Google wanted to alert drivers that the Russian armor was causing traffic jams.

You have never seen this play before.

Yes, the Russian attempt to seize Ukraine is a throwback to earlier centuries — before the democracy revolutions in America and France — when a European monarch or Russian czar could simply decide that he wanted more territory, that the time was ripe to grab it, and so he did. And everyone in the region knew he would devour as much as he could and there was no global community to stop him.

In acting this way today, though, Putin is not only aiming to unilaterally rewrite the rules of the international system that have been in place since World War II — that no nation can just devour the nation next door — he is also out to alter that balance of power that he feels was imposed on Russia after the Cold War.

That balance — or imbalance in Putin’s view — was the humiliating equivalent of the Versailles Treaty’s impositions on Germany after World War I. In Russia’s case, it meant Moscow having to swallow NATO’s expansion not only to include the old Eastern European countries that had been part of the Soviet Union’s sphere of influence, like Poland, but even, in principle, states that were part of the Soviet Union itself, like Ukraine.

I see many people citing Robert Kagan’s fine book “The Jungle Grows Back” as a kind of shorthand for the return of this nasty and brutish style of geopolitics that Putin’s invasion manifests. But that picture is incomplete. Because this is not 1945 or 1989. We may be back in the jungle — but today the jungle is wired. It is wired together more intimately than ever before by telecommunications; satellites; trade; the internet; road, rail and air networks; financial markets; and supply chains. So while the drama of war is playing out within the borders of Ukraine, the risks and repercussions of Putin’s invasion are being felt across the globe — even in China, which has good cause to worry about its friend in the Kremlin.

Welcome to World War Wired — the first war in a totally interconnected world. This will be the Cossacks meet the World Wide Web. Like I said, you haven’t been here before....

 

All the world's a stage... 

[Sensei]

11 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

All the world's a stage... 

Modern version:

All the world's a game play field...

 

[J.C.MacSwell]

39 minutes ago, Sensei said:

"Take the bodies of Russian soldiers to Russia: Ukraine has appealed to the Red Cross"

https://uacrisis.org/en/take-the-bodies-of-russian

 

No.

 

The bodies of the dead Russian soldiers should be transferred to Poland, and pictures will be taken there, and autopsy. And catalogued for all to see created on the Internet. The families of the Russians will be able to identify their children, fathers in these photos, and then fly to Poland to pick up the bodies from the morgue. One by one.

 

Otherwise, the bodies will be cremated to destroy the evidence, without the identification for which they have already prepared:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/02/23/russia-deploys-mobile-crematorium-follow-troops-battle/

 

 Sad that we have to hope for a sizeable Russian body count to help deter the Russians, even while we likely care more for them than Putin does, and while the hoped for effect is so indirect given the lack of political power of the Russian people.

[StringJunky]

1 minute ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

 Sad that we have to hope for a sizeable Russian body count to help deter the Russians, even while we likely care more for them than Putin does, and while the hoped for effect is so indirect given the lack of political power of the Russian people.

 It's a tough one, It's shame to see two countries people so closely related coming to this.

[geordief]

6 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

 Sad that we have to hope for a sizeable Russian body count to help deter the Russians, even while we likely care more for them than Putin does, and while the hoped for effect is so indirect given the lack of political power of the Russian people.

Well I  hope for a 100% to 0% body count in favour of the Ukranians with that 100% being zero from here  on in because  the  hostilities would have ceased for whatever  reason.

 

In the real world I hope the Russians get a bloody  nose and  join the queue of the rest of us finding our place in the world.

[J.C.MacSwell]

24 minutes ago, geordief said:

In the real world I hope the Russians get a bloody  nose and  join the queue of the rest of us finding our place in the world.

I find myself there as well, while hoping somehow sanctions can become strong enough for immediate effect.

[TheVat]

If victories were won on the basis of sense of humor, Ukraine would win handily.  Not only did they elect a comedian as president, but they really know how to welcome invaders...

https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1497570787557097476?s=20&t=OiOQpwFS3bBuDVqkvvuNcg

Edited February 26, 2022 by TheVat
twitter link melborp

[MigL]

V Putin does not want neighboring former Soviet states to be successful, as Ukraine was ( slowly ) on its way to become.
It looks bad on his failed government, that the largest country in the world, with all of its natural resources, has an economy equivalent to Spain, and its people are suffering.

He has destabilized Kazakhstan, Georgia and Belarus already, a successful, pro-Western Ukranian state on the Russian border might give the Russian people the idea that it is their Government's fault, and it's time for a change.

[J.C.MacSwell]

Partial removal of Russian access to Swift:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/eu-russia-swift-sanctions-1.6366084

Better than getting bogged down in debate for all or none. Please keep them coming.

[MigL]

4 hours ago, MigL said:

He has destabilized Kazakhstan, Georgia and Belarus already

I forgot to mention Chechnya.

[Sensei]

12 hours ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

 Sad that we have to hope for a sizeable Russian body count to help deter the Russians, even while we likely care more for them than Putin does, and while the hoped for effect is so indirect given the lack of political power of the Russian people.

Otherwise, they would be catalogued as "dead during training", and then immediately cremated...

 ..and their deaths would only be remembered by family members in the far east, without any reliable communication with the modern world....

 

So..

Don't let them die, on the order of mass murderer.. and being vaporized..

Use them after death... against the one who caused their death...

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Sensei

[Alex_Krycek]

Putin orders nuclear deterrence forces on high alert

Sigh...

[iNow]

3 minutes ago, Alex_Krycek said:

Putin orders nuclear deterrence forces on high alert

Sigh...

There’s also an agreement for Russian and Belarusian forces to meet negotiators from Ukraine along the border. May be an attempt to sow confusion. 

US is delivering an additional $350M in military aid including ammunition and surface to air missiles, bringing total military aid provided to Ukraine over past year to over $1B

Germany has also reversed their longtime policy not to share military equipment with countries in active war zones and is shipping heavy equipment to support Ukraine defense now. 

[Alex_Krycek]

2 minutes ago, iNow said:

There’s also an agreement for Russian and Belarusian forces to meet negotiators from Ukraine along the border. May be an attempt to sow confusion. 

Has any negotiation been agreed?  The last I saw, Zelensky rejected the idea of a negotiation taking place in Belarus, saying any other country would be acceptable.

[iNow]

5 minutes ago, Alex_Krycek said:

Has any negotiation been agreed?  The last I saw, Zelensky rejected the idea of a negotiation taking place in Belarus, saying any other country would be acceptable.

It’s on the border, not within the country. News only just broke about 10 minutes ago so still trying to learn more.