War Games: Russia Takes Ukraine, China Takes Taiwan. US Response?

[empleat]

5 minutes ago, iNow said:

Agreed. You should do better when expressing yourself. 

Sarcasms OK... Lol imagine being that insensitive in grave situation like this! I would feel that first hand as I Am from EU, if it came to that. Or maybe you don't care about people dying... Try to imagine 3rd degree burns, not sure what yield would be used on a city of 1 million people! If it were also only to force negotiations... I experienced 9/10 pain multiple times, if you knew how it feels haha...

[iNow]

I wasn’t being sarcastic 

[empleat]

3 minutes ago, iNow said:

I wasn’t being sarcastic 

What do you not understand???

[beecee]

8 hours ago, iNow said:

Then they need do little more than wait along the border with Belarus where he's about to meet (has already met?) with Russia to discuss options

https://nypost.com/2022/02/28/specially-trained-russian-mercenaries-sent-to-kill-zelensky-report/

 

Is/was he at the meeting?

Edited February 28, 2022 by beecee

[Phi for All]

1 hour ago, empleat said:

What do you not understand???

2 hours ago, empleat said:

Just wonder how come no one tells putin some 200 IQ genius, or something...

I don't understand what this means.

2 hours ago, empleat said:

If it was true indeed you wouldn't be laughing (which you don't know)... 

If what was true? Why do you think zapatos was laughing when he asked you if you feel better? 

2 hours ago, empleat said:

Also many people can suffer either way...

Either way? Which two ways were you talking about?

 

I couldn't follow what you were talking about in that post. And the rant before that was very long and covered MANY points. When you're trying to make a point, it's best to come to it quickly, and focus on one at a time.

[empleat]

13 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

I don't understand what this means.

I was referring to an old discussion. I don't know if you were part of it. But other people know! I don't want to unnecessarily mention it, because it is depressing as hell - the ultimate worst think that could happen! Because if anyone who is superrational thinker knew about it, pain would motivate him to try change it by any means necessary! It is similar to aliens, people would rather join than compete... Einstein said: "nations are infantile disease of mankind" - couldn't agree more... But maybe Putin really thinks he will go to heaven, or it is identity politics - I don't know...

[J.C.MacSwell]

1 hour ago, beecee said:

https://nypost.com/2022/02/28/specially-trained-russian-mercenaries-sent-to-kill-zelensky-report/

 

Is/was he at the meeting?

No. He wasn't part of the delegation.

[Genady]

6 minutes ago, empleat said:

I was referring to an old discussion. I don't know if you were part of it. But other people know! I don't want to unnecessarily mention it, because it is depressing as hell - the ultimate worst think that could happen! Because if anyone who is superrational thinker knew about it, pain would motivate him to try change it by any means necessary! It is similar to aliens, people would rather join than compete... Einstein said: "nations are infantile disease of mankind" - couldn't agree more... But maybe Putin really thinks he will go to heaven, or it is identity politics - I don't know...

Einstein said that nationalism is a disease. He didn't say nations. 

[iNow]

44 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

No. He wasn't part of the delegation.

Thanks for confirming. I was curious 

[Alex_Krycek]

8 hours ago, Sensei said:

...he orders the murder of members of the non-violent opposition even in his own country..

Only because they step out of line one at a time.

Impossible to quell such non-violent opposition when the entire population does it simultaneously (and is willing to die for it). 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Alex_Krycek

[beecee]

1 hour ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

No. He wasn't part of the delegation.

 

56 minutes ago, iNow said:

Thanks for confirming. I was curious 

Ditto.

[SergUpstart]

Residents of Montenegro came out to demonstrate in support of Russia. The homeless of Yugoslavia 1999 are fresh in their memory.

 

[Alex_Krycek]

Glad to see the Snake Island troops may yet be alive.

Would have been a reckless move by their commander if he decided to go out in a blaze of glory.

Escape / evasion would have been the right COA.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Alex_Krycek

[mistermack]

On 2/28/2022 at 1:52 AM, TheVat said:

Zelenskyy is a man of courage, leadership, and grace under pressure.   I don't say such things about politicians very often.  I predict people will be quoting "I need ammunition, I don't need a ride," for many years to come.

No he's not, he's a twat. Three or four weeks ago, if I'd been leader of Ukraine, I'd have done a deal not to join NATO. What would it have cost? NATO membership was not even on the cards, for decades. The Germans said that publicly, and everybody knew it. 

A deal that costs nothing, and he turned it down? He's a moron. Everyone knew this was coming, and he had a simple choice to make. On what parallel universe could this be described as the best choice? 

What would the world be like today, if he'd done the deal? Nobody would have been killed, nobody would have fled, streets and shops would be normal, planes would be flying in and out as normal, cash machines would be working, and fuel in this country would be it's usual price.

He's a mega twat.

[Alex_Krycek]

6 minutes ago, mistermack said:

No he's not, he's a twat. Three or four weeks ago, if I'd been leader of Ukraine, I'd have done a deal not to join NATO. What would it have cost? NATO membership was not even on the cards, for decades. The Germans said that publicly, and everybody knew it. 

A deal that costs nothing, and he turned it down? He's a moron. Everyone knew this was coming, and he had a simple choice to make. On what parallel universe could this be described as the best choice? 

What would the world be like today, if he'd done the deal? Nobody would have been killed, nobody would have fled, streets and shops would be normal, planes would be flying in and out as normal, cash machines would be working, and fuel in this country would be it's usual price.

He's a mega twat.

Baloney.  A tyrant's hunger is never satiated.  

[J.C.MacSwell]

14 minutes ago, mistermack said:

No he's not, he's a twat. Three or four weeks ago, if I'd been leader of Ukraine, I'd have done a deal not to join NATO. What would it have cost? NATO membership was not even on the cards, for decades. The Germans said that publicly, and everybody knew it. 

A deal that costs nothing, and he turned it down? He's a moron. Everyone knew this was coming, and he had a simple choice to make. On what parallel universe could this be described as the best choice? 

What would the world be like today, if he'd done the deal? Nobody would have been killed, nobody would have fled, streets and shops would be normal, planes would be flying in and out as normal, cash machines would be working, and fuel in this country would be it's usual price.

He's a mega twat.

“My good friends, for the second time in our history, a British prime minister has returned from Germany bringing peace with honour. I believe it is peace for our time. We thank you from the bottom of our hearts. Go home and get a nice quiet sleep.”

Neville Chamberlain Sept 30, 1938

[mistermack]

3 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

“My good friends, for the second time in our history,

If you check your history, you'll find that Hitler was raging after Chamberlain left, he felt he had been out-manoevered. Chamberlain bought precious time because Britain was woefully unprepared. 

You're just buying in to the simplistic history, there's real politics behind the headlines and spin. 

[SergUpstart]

56 minutes ago, mistermack said:

No he's not, he's a twat.

Putin is an idiot. When I wrote that there would be no war, I thought he was not an idiot. Now, because of his idiocy, Russia can repeat the fate of the USSR after the State Emergency Committee.

[TheVat]

1 hour ago, mistermack said:

No he's not, he's a twat. Three or four weeks ago, if I'd been leader of Ukraine, I'd have done a deal not to join NATO. What would it have cost? NATO membership was not even on the cards, for decades. The Germans said that publicly, and everybody knew it. 

A deal that costs nothing, and he turned it down? He's a moron. Everyone knew this was coming, and he had a simple choice to make. On what parallel universe could this be described as the best choice? 

What would the world be like today, if he'd done the deal? Nobody would have been killed, nobody would have fled, streets and shops would be normal, planes would be flying in and out as normal, cash machines would be working, and fuel in this country would be it's usual price.

He's a mega twat.

Thanks for your frankness.  Though I disagree, I cancelled one of your downvotes because I do not object to you having a different interpretation.  I don't believe that Zelenskyy affirming a non-NATO stance would have protected his country from invasion.  Putin has long held Ukraine to belong to Russia, and when his puppet was removed in 2014 by the Maidan Revolution, he began looking into schemes to restore Ukraine to the empire.  

I'll leave it there for now.  

[zapatos]

44 minutes ago, TheVat said:

Though I disagree, I cancelled one of your downvotes because I do not object to you having a different interpretation.

I'm glad the "point police" are still alive and well. I gave the downvote back because I don't think calling someone a "Mega twat" is an appropriate description of a person's behavior.

Edited March 1, 2022 by zapatos

[Phi for All]

2 hours ago, mistermack said:

He's a mega twat.

!

Moderator Note

Our policy of not attacking people extends to all people. Focus on ideas and actions, please.

 

[mistermack]

47 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

!

Moderator Note

Our policy of not attacking people extends to all people. Focus on ideas and actions, please.

 

Fair enough, although I have the feeling that if I said the same about Putin or Donald Trump or Boris Johnson I wouldn't get the same reaction. But maybe I'm wrong. 

Why I think that Zelenskyy's decision-making has been ludicrous, is that the idea of joining NATO was presumably to protect Ukraine from aggression from Russia. And yet he took the course that he KNEW 100% would lead to an invasion. It's like jumping off a cliff, to prevent the possibility of falling. 

People might claim that Putin would have invaded anyway. I really don't believe that's true. If that was the case, he would have just invaded without warning, and not have given Ukraine the chance of taking a deal.  If he was determined to invade, what could he possibly gain by offering a deal that he knew he was going to ignore?

[swansont]

20 minutes ago, mistermack said:

And yet he took the course that he KNEW 100% would lead to an invasion.

What course was that? This sounds a lot like "She was just asking for it, dressed like that"

[CharonY]

38 minutes ago, swansont said:

What course was that? This sounds a lot like "She was just asking for it, dressed like that"

Moreover, Russia already invaded Ukraine a few times. They annexed Crimea, have an ongoing war in Donbas. Integrating Ukraine into Russia either fully or as a puppet state is part of an overall strategy. NATO membership would put a stop to these ambitions, which ultimately is why the the issue might have escalated. 

Of course you one might argue that if Ukraine decided to fully join Russia's sphere of influence, then the invasion likely could have been prevented, which is basically just blackmailing on a massive scale.

1 hour ago, mistermack said:

Why I think that Zelenskyy's decision-making has been ludicrous, is that the idea of joining NATO was presumably to protect Ukraine from aggression from Russia. And yet he took the course that he KNEW 100% would lead to an invasion. It's like jumping off a cliff, to prevent the possibility of falling.

It is rather that Russia put a gun to their head and that stop struggling and do as we want. 

[mistermack]

25 minutes ago, CharonY said:

which is basically just blackmailing on a massive scale.

Except that Russia set up Ukraine as a country in the first place. With the agreement that Russia would continue to have unfettered access to Crimea for it's Black Sea Fleet, and that Ukraine would remain neutral. 

This was all abandoned after an illegal coup, that was planned, organised and started by the CIA. These things have a habit of coming back to bite you.