War Games: Russia Takes Ukraine, China Takes Taiwan. US Response?

[swansont]

8 minutes ago, mistermack said:

Except that Russia set up Ukraine as a country in the first place. With the agreement that Russia would continue to have unfettered access to Crimea for it's Black Sea Fleet, and that Ukraine would remain neutral. 

This was all abandoned after an illegal coup, that was planned, organised and started by the CIA. These things have a habit of coming back to bite you. 

Surely you can provide citations for this.

How, exactly, did Russia "set up Ukraine as a country"? I thought that Ukraine seceded from the Soviet Union, along with Russia and Belarus.

[Sensei]

43 minutes ago, mistermack said:

Except that Russia set up Ukraine as a country in the first place.

Kyiv vs Moscow, since 996 A.D.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Sensei

[MigL]

More like Russia sprang forth from the Ukraine.

The original people, who settled/cultivated the area of present day Ukraine called themselves the KievanRus, where the 'rus' denoted their red-haired Nordic ancestry.

Kievan Rus' - Wikipedia

The steppes of present day Russia were the domain of the Mongol, or Golden, Horde in the South, and mostly barren Siberian wasteland to the North.

 

4 hours ago, zapatos said:

I'm glad the "point police" are still alive and well. I gave the downvote back because I don't think calling someone a "Mega twat" is an appropriate description of a person's behavior.

Well at least this time you chose toexplain instead of simply downvoting.
Much appreciated.

What kind of description is it to call someone's behaviour 'dick'-like, and then have that post magically disappear, so that my angry response is the only one visible, and I look bad ?

Edited March 1, 2022 by MigL

[zapatos]

22 minutes ago, MigL said:

Well at least this time you chose toexplain instead of simply downvoting.
Much appreciated.

What kind of description is it to call someone's behaviour 'dick'-like, and then have that post magically disappear, so that my angry response is the only one visible, and I look bad ?

Would you please leave me the fuck alone?

[koti]

Two stories which we probably won't hear on the news:
- Two gypsies stole a tank and cut out the catalytic converter.
- An old Grandma in a village gave poisonous food to a couple of russians and when they went to a wooden toilet outside she lit it on fire.

[TheVat]

4 hours ago, zapatos said:

I'm glad the "point police" are still alive and well. I gave the downvote back because I don't think calling someone a "Mega twat" is an appropriate description of a person's behavior.

I think resisting people handing out DV "tickets" is kind of the opposite of policing.  But you do inadvertently make my point, again, which is that an anonymous DV is one which is unclear as to what exactly is being critiqued or disapproved.  I don't want to make this a big bone of contention, since I like your posting persona and style at SFN, so I'll just leave it that the anti-DV position is only my own and reflects no ill will towards those who use it.  "Mega Twat" seemed pretty overheated, for sure.  

 

[beecee]

Hmmm, some interesting aspects to this thread...mega twat, dick like, leave me the fuck alone 🤭

Seriously though, I'm not that into the details of the history exactly, but really, Putin lost it with me, when he threatened nuclear might. The history is full of criminal nuts, Hitler, Idi Amin, Ghaddafi etc. IMO this potential scenario to WW3, can only be decided by continuing the world wide sanctions, and the Russian people, who are already protesting to increase those protests. Someone in government may then wake up before anyone presses any nuclear button and possibly disable this Putin nut. 

[TheVat]

2 hours ago, mistermack said:

Except that Russia set up Ukraine as a country in the first place. With the agreement that Russia would continue to have unfettered access to Crimea for it's Black Sea Fleet, and that Ukraine would remain neutral. 

This was all abandoned after an illegal coup, that was planned, organised and started by the CIA. These things have a habit of coming back to bite you. 

You mean the coup that removed a corrupt Putin puppet and mass murderer, Yanukovich, and replaced it with a functioning democracy in which a new president was elected in a landslide?  Yeah, damn those sneaky bastards at the CIA!  

As for the "she was asking for it" argument, I think Charon and Swanson addressed that pretty well.  

 

[Phi for All]

48 minutes ago, koti said:

Two stories which we probably won't hear on the news:
- Two gypsies stole a tank and cut out the catalytic converter.
- An old Grandma in a village gave poisonous food to a couple of russians and when they went to a wooden toilet outside she lit it on fire.

Love it.

The two stories I'm thinking about most right now? That Russian tank that swerved to crush that civilian vehicle, and how the tough old man survived while his fellow Ukrainians helped free him from the crushed wreckage. I'm juxtaposing that with a story I heard about what the Ukrainians are doing to Russian soldiers they've captured. They're encouraging them to phone their families and friends back in Russia. "Let them know that you're safe and unharmed, because your loved ones must all be freaking out that you were fighting and now you're captured, right?"

These are the kinds of things Putin can't stand up to. Right isn't always in might's corner.

[geordief]

1 hour ago, koti said:

Two stories which we probably won't hear on the news:
- Two gypsies stole a tank and cut out the catalytic converter.
- An old Grandma in a village gave poisonous food to a couple of russians and when they went to a wooden toilet outside she lit it on fire.

My old girlfriend 's father from Bordeaux told me that during the War  as children  they used to go around stealing the saddles from the bikes of the German occupiers.

[zapatos]

Quote

A Ukrainian sailor has been arrested in Mallorca and faces charges of attempting to sink a yacht owned by Alexander Mikheev, the CEO of the Russian arms exporter Rosoboronexport and former head of the Russian helicopter federation. The boat is moored in the harbour of Port Adriano.

The unnamed man, who has been employed for the past 10 years as a mechanic on the Lady Anastasia, Mikheev’s 48-metre, £5m yacht, said he felt he had to do something after seeing footage of a Russian rocket attack on a block of flats in Kyiv, his home town. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/28/ukrainian-sailor-arrested-for-trying-to-sink-oligarchs-superyacht

[koti]

These war news someone compiled in Polish needed to be translated:

1. Russians asking for food in a country they are trying to occupy.
2. Elite Chechen soldiers obliterated in the fields in a few hours.
3. Gypsies who stole a a russian tank.
4. Polish hackers who play polish disco-polo on russian TV.
5. Russians asking Ukrainian police for fuel in Ukraine.
6. Kiev thugs beating up soldiers in an armored vehicle and passing them to the Ukrainian army.
7. Russians drowning a tank because they drove onto a wooden bridge.
8. Russians abandoning tanks and armored vehicles because the drove them into mud.
9. Wołodymyr Zełenski (Ukrainian president) cannot be evacuated becasue his balls do not fit through any door.
10. Russian tank wanted to refuel, Georgians informed them to f off and paddle away.
11. Ukrainian activists and LGBTQWERTY+ people beat up russian soldiers and took them into captivity.
12. Kadyrow, a big fan of Putin and leader of super-elite Chechens demands Ukraine to surrender with a deadline of February 31st.
13. Russian radio communications disrupted by hackers playing Barka-electro version.
14. Farmer taking a rocket launcher with his tractor.
15. Ukrainians pretending to be lost asking russians in russian for their location, receiving the location and killing the russians.
16. Russian armored brigade engaging in battle with a statue.
17. A russian saboteur marking positions for russian fire having his pants and underwear taken and being plastered to a tree with plastic foil where he awated Ukrainian police.
18. A Ukrainian carrying a mine into a field while smoking a cigarrete.
19. Russains being caught while driving aimlessly in an armoured vehicle around houses. When asked what theyre up to they replied: We don't want to fight, we need to burn the fuel.
20. The gypsies from number 3 put out for sale a catalytic converter they stole from that tank.
 

[SergUpstart]

1 hour ago, koti said:

19. Russains being caught while driving aimlessly in an armoured vehicle around houses. When asked what theyre up to they replied: We don't want to fight, we need to burn the fuel.

Why burn something that can be sold?

[iNow]

2 hours ago, SergUpstart said:

Why burn something that can be sold?

Sometimes symbolism and protest is worth more than rubles, especially today 

[iNow]

US has banned all Russian flights from entering the country, and in parallel Boeing announced an end to all maintenance and flight assistance for Russian airlines. 

[koti]

8 hours ago, SergUpstart said:

Why burn something that can be sold?

Because they would get court martial if it came out that they sold the fuel. Besides, who would they sell it to?

4 hours ago, iNow said:

US has banned all Russian flights from entering the country, and in parallel Boeing announced an end to all maintenance and flight assistance for Russian airlines. 

Putin is gone from the media probably sitting in one of his bunkers, I wonder if the oligarchs are talking with anyone in the US and the EU about a change of power in russia. The way these sanctions are going (severe and suprisingly united across the world) there are only two scenarios available, either Putin lives through this or he doesn’t. 

Edited March 2, 2022 by koti

[Sensei]

Modern Russian flight plan...

[dimreepr]

15 hours ago, Phi for All said:

Love it.

The two stories I'm thinking about most right now? That Russian tank that swerved to crush that civilian vehicle, and how the tough old man survived while his fellow Ukrainians helped free him from the crushed wreckage. I'm juxtaposing that with a story I heard about what the Ukrainians are doing to Russian soldiers they've captured. They're encouraging them to phone their families and friends back in Russia. "Let them know that you're safe and unharmed, because your loved ones must all be freaking out that you were fighting and now you're captured, right?"

These are the kinds of things Putin can't stand up to. Right isn't always in might's corner.

Indeed +1, forgiving your brother's is a lesson, force can't teach...

I love this one...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/28/ukrainian-sailor-arrested-for-trying-to-sink-oligarchs-superyacht

Quote

The unnamed man, who has been employed for the past 10 years as a mechanic on the Lady Anastasia, Mikheev’s 48-metre, £5m yacht

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by dimreepr

[swansont]

13 hours ago, SergUpstart said:

Why burn something that can be sold?

Also burn is possibly a colloquialism for "use up"

Use up the fuel, so they can abandon the vehicle without it being an obvious dereliction of duty

[iNow]

6 hours ago, koti said:

either Putin lives through this or he doesn’t

Energy supply is the thing to watch here, IMO. If EU countries (esp. Germany) can hold strong and survive lack of Russian oil and gas, then Putin crumbles. If, however, domestic protests cause EU governments to cave and start buying Russian O&G again due to price concerns of their citizens, then Putin survives.

Amplifying this risk: Russian trolls have become very good at stirring up “grassroots” protests in other countries that could push this more quickly (aka: astroturfing).

Suppressing this risk: US and other countries releasing 60 Million barrels of O&G from strategic petroleum reserves and showing a willingness to release more. 

6 hours ago, koti said:

I wonder if the oligarchs are talking with anyone in the US and the EU about a change of power in russia

Almost certainly. Seizures of super yachts, private jets, and luxury apartments are already happening. Nobody likes it when people start messing with and taking away their toys, especially the ultra wealthy. 

[dimreepr]

14 minutes ago, iNow said:

Energy supply is the thing to watch here, IMO. If EU countries (esp. Germany) can hold strong and survive lack of Russian oil and gas, then Putin crumbles. If, however, domestic protests cause EU governments to cave and start buying Russian O&G again due to price concerns of their citizens, then Putin survives.

But, another nail in the coffin???

One day, 'the Putin' will die and all his promises, will be forgotten... 

[MigL]

Regarding energy policy, INow, a Couple of missteps by J Biden ...

Israel has an abundant supply of natural gas from off-shore wells, and is already supplying gas to Egypt and Jordan. They have capacity to spare, and plans were in the works to build the Med East pipeline to Europe. Until J Biden vetoed it earlier this year.

Canada wanted to build a pipeline to the Eastern seaboard, where gas could be liquified and shipped to Europe. Again J Biden vetoed their construction.

They might not have helped in the short term, but would spare Europeans from having to deal with the devil ( V Putin ), and keep enriching him and his cronies.
Might still be time to revisit those vetoes.

On another note, if Belarus sends in troops to support the Russian invasion, does that give other countries 'wiggle room' to send in troops to supprt Ukrainian resistance ?

[iNow]

2 hours ago, MigL said:

Might still be time to revisit those vetoes.

Or, you know, move on to renewables and away from O&G entirely before Kansas and Alberta become coastal states. 

[J.C.MacSwell]

6 hours ago, iNow said:

Or, you know, move on to renewables and away from O&G entirely before Kansas and Alberta become coastal states. 

And in the mean burn Russian fossil fuels...because they don't contribute to global warming.

[koti]

13 hours ago, MigL said:

On another note, if Belarus sends in troops to support the Russian invasion, does that give other countries 'wiggle room' to send in troops to supprt Ukrainian resistance ?

"Anonymous" published that Belarusan partisans set on fire the main control station at Baronivichi train station to prevent russian tanks and equipement from coming to Ukraine. I just spoke to Sergiej, a native russian friend of mine who builds expensive high end flashlights for a living. He's pissed at Putin beyond anything, his business (he sold mostly to the US to veterans, retired forces, police) is gone in an instant, he asked me for help to ship remaining pending orders from Poland somehow, I will help him if I can. He's thinking of packing up his lab into a truck and leaving but having a russain passport he's most likely to fail to leave. 

On another note, I'd like to share my thoughts on this nightmare as its unfolding. I remember Nancy Pelosi rubbing her hands instead of clapping while Biden was giving a speach, students waving hands in US colleges instead of clapping to prevent "trauma" to "sensitive" people, safe spaces, the whole thread here on the forum about JP, etc. I think that Putin was counting on facing the hand waving and safe space rhetoric people in the US and the EU when he was making a decision to attack Ukraine, fortunately he was very wrong. Biden looks like he's going to start to decompose any day now, purely from a PR point of view which is extremely important right now he's not doing a good job, Kamala Harris would be a better front person for the US right now. The good thing is that the world seems to be united, I’m seeing people who have extremely different stances starting to talk to each other and its a great thing pollitically at least here in Europe. China seeing whats happening will think more than twice before they put their hands on Taiwan. 

Edited March 3, 2022 by koti