War Games: Russia Takes Ukraine, China Takes Taiwan. US Response?

[Alex_Krycek]

On 4/12/2022 at 2:28 AM, SergUpstart said:

On April 3, 2022, Filatov posted on the social network Facebook, where he published a call for the murder of Russians around the world: "Now we have the full moral right, calmly and with a completely clear mind, to kill these non-humans all over the world, an unlimited amount of time and in the largest possible quantities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borys_Filatov

This is certainly not genocide, but it is a call for genocide

What-about-ism. 

Classy.

[Phi for All]

12 minutes ago, SergUpstart said:

Le Pen said that if she wins the election, France will withdraw from NATO

It's no secret she loves Putin. Her party borrowed 9M Euros from a Russian bank to fund local elections in 2014: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/apr/08/vladimir-putin-viktor-orban-eu-marine-le-pen

Quote

Le Pen’s links to Putin are more blatant than most. In October 2014, her party borrowed €9m (£7.5m) from a Russian bank to fund its campaign for local elections. Her promo material for this current contest, admittedly printed before the invasion, features a smiling picture of her with the butcher of Moscow.

If she could withdraw from NATO, she'd be forced to buy weapons from Russian arms dealers to plug the gaps in French defense. Like Boris in the UK, Le Pen seems to want to ruin publicly funded programs in favor of capitalist opportunities for the wealthy. As an American, it looks all too familiar. Russian will certainly use international hackers to pollute the French elections with praise for Le Putin.

[Genady]

One might be out, one or more could be in.

"Finland will take a decision about whether to apply to join the U.S.-led NATO alliance in the next few weeks, Prime Minister Sanna Marin said on Wednesday, underlining a shift in security perspectives since Russia's invasion of Ukraine."

Finland to make decision on NATO entry in coming weeks, not months | Reuters 

[MSC]

1 hour ago, Phi for All said:

If she could withdraw from NATO, she'd be forced to buy weapons from Russian arms dealers to plug the gaps in French defense. Like Boris in the UK, Le Pen seems to want to ruin publicly funded programs in favor of capitalist opportunities for the wealthy. As an American, it looks all too familiar. Russian will certainly use international hackers to pollute the French elections with praise for Le Putin.

I'd love to see her try and do that! (Sarcasm)

Nothing could be a worse move for the French people. From a geopolitical standpoint, it would be a logistical and military nightmare. Weapons from Russia to France would have to go through NATO territory, they would be switching sides only to immediately step into being completely surrounded by NATO and the EU. If France were hit with even half of the sanctions currently being applied to Russia, it would be chaos. 

Even if Putin were on the right side of history (which he most certainly isn't), this would be such an imbecillic move. 

Does she actually have much of a chance at taking power in France Phi? I'm not really that informed on French politics tbh.

7 minutes ago, Genady said:

One might be out, one or more could be in.

Cue Russia claiming Finland is run by Neo-Nazis and talk of sending Russian "Peacekeepers" into Finland on a "Special military operation". The use of "Special" here, denotes what you must be, in order think anyone is going to buy that crock of shit a second time, when it didn't work the first time. Just a little bit "Special". 

[TheVat]

Yeah, I have trouble picturing the French parliament signing off on a NATO exit.  Even with a LePutin admin.  

The sanctions - someone said they are "piecemeal," - I would say slow and uphill is more descriptive.  You have to herd cats, basically, to really turn off the Russian oil/gas spigot.  But if we can get there, with good cooperation between all the allies, then it will be game over for Russia.  The crumble may be too slow for some, but it will happen.  

[Phi for All]

1 hour ago, MSC said:

Does she actually have much of a chance at taking power in France Phi? I'm not really that informed on French politics tbh.

The latest I've heard is that she and Macron are on course to have a runoff election. She's less than 5% behind him at this point. 

My impression of the French is that they won't let their ultra-rich take back undue control, but Le Pen's politics are much like Trump's, in that they're designed to erode democratic principals and make it easier to divide the electorate in other ways. I enjoyed watching participation in their election process while visiting because so many of their citizens are political. They've always had a strong left and right so compromise left them with politicians like Macron. It's a real shame to see that tilt so dramatically that they'd put Le Putin in the presidency. And she wouldn't care about what the EU says about leaving NATO and buying Russian arms, because she'll probably start organizing FREXIT as soon as she can.

[MigL]

France actually withdrew from the NATO command structure for a period of almost 2 decades, but remained an ally.
They are now again fully in, but more than any other member state, have chosen a 'go it alone' policy to weapon systems and development.
They are in fact, the only NATO country, other than the US, to have their own nuclear deterrent, and the ability to deliver; the 'Force de Frappe'.
Others like the UK and Germany have US nukes, which they have the means to deliver, but require US permission

[beecee]

4 hours ago, Phi for All said:

They've always had a strong left and right so compromise left them with politicians like Macron.

He certainly pulls no punches and says it as it is...With relation to the Australia/French submarine deal, that our PM scuttled in favour of an alliance under AUKUS,  when asked by a reporter whether he thought our PM was a liar, replied, "I don't think; I know"  https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2021/nov/01/i-dont-think-i-know-macron-accuses-scott-morrison-of-lying-about-submarine-contract-video

Edited April 13, 2022 by beecee

[iNow]

$800 Million more in US aid approved today, including weapons systems specifically designed for fights like these (javelins, howitzers, etc) and should be there within a week 

Edited April 13, 2022 by iNow

[beecee]

7 hours ago, MigL said:

This is a thread where we are discussing an on-going war that has killed thousands and displaced millions from their homes.

( Ukrainian- Russian squabble ).

Bingo!!! And  the war continues, and innocent Ukrainians are being murdered, and raped, and tortured and war crimes continue to be commited, and Putin continues to defy the sanctions and other supposed deterrent actions, and thumbs his nose at NATO and the west.

If this continues much longer, what will be left of Ukraine? What will its people be returning to? They are the only certainties. While stronger extra actions are still no guarentee to get a favourable result, neither are the current actions achieving much in the way of stopping the Russian/Putin genocide.

7 minutes ago, iNow said:

$800 Million more in US aid approved today, including weapons systems specifically designed for fights like these (javelins, howitzers, etc) and should be there within a week 

Let's hope it makes an extra difference. 

[LaurieAG]

20 hours ago, beecee said:

I asked you a question previously, thus, Why would you object to taking out a maniac, that may have/could have potentially started a nuclear war?

You use may with have to say that it is possible that something happened in the past, but you do not know whether it happened or not. Could have means that something was possible in the past, but it did not happen.

I would not 'take anybody out' on the basis of what I thought may have, might have or could have happened in the past as that's exactly what maniacs do. Surely we have justice systems for that sort of stuff or do you think you are Judge, jury and executioner?

There's a biblical proverb "Judge not lest ye be judged" for those who think they are, If you judge or condemn someone else you stand to be judged or condemned according to the same standard. 

[beecee]

2 hours ago, LaurieAG said:

You use may with have to say that it is possible that something happened in the past, but you do not know whether it happened or not. Could have means that something was possible in the past, but it did not happen.

I would not 'take anybody out' on the basis of what I thought may have, might have or could have happened in the past as that's exactly what maniacs do. Surely we have justice systems for that sort of stuff or do you think you are Judge, jury and executioner?

There's a biblical proverb "Judge not lest ye be judged" for those who think they are, If you judge or condemn someone else you stand to be judged or condemned according to the same standard. 

I'm certainly not going to get into any debate with you about some off topic grammar or phrases I chose to use, and in what manner they were used. It is known though without too much doubt, that Putin is a crazed war criminal, of that we can be certain.  And while any result or outcome is unknown with the justified taking out of this war criminal, the present sanctions and such are still not having the desired effect either...Innocent Ukrainians are still being killed, women are being raped and murdered etc etc. Or do you go along with the Putin line that it is all faked news? 

I'll gladly and proudly stand by my judgement of this war criminal, based on the reasonable assessment of the evidence available.

 

The "may have/could have" that you are having trouble with,  apply to that ever real possibility that he may have/could have potentially started a nuclear war.

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by beecee

[StringJunky]

12 hours ago, iNow said:

$800 Million more in US aid approved today, including weapons systems specifically designed for fights like these (javelins, howitzers, etc) and should be there within a week 

I read a few days ago, Ukraine were going to get anti-ship missiles, then one is on fire yesterday; coincidence?

Russia has stated it will attack weapons imports from NATO, butI  imagine that's been a Russian priority anyway, and they are just saying it now.

[Prometheus]

Ukraine claim it was hit by a Neptune missile which is one of their own latest developments. Ukraine has quite the expertise in rocketry so it wouldn't be a surprise.

[swansont]

12 hours ago, beecee said:

While stronger extra actions are still no guarentee to get a favourable result, neither are the current actions achieving much in the way of stopping the Russian/Putin genocide.

I don't think that it's reasonable to expect anything to happen instantaneously, or nearly so.

As Russia runs out of its stockpiled spare parts, things will get much worse. A war of attrition favored the Russians at the outset. But the asymmetric losses in the field and sanctions look to make that a non-viable strategy. 

37 minutes ago, Prometheus said:

Ukraine claim it was hit by a Neptune missile which is one of their own latest developments. Ukraine has quite the expertise in rocketry so it wouldn't be a surprise.

The Kremlin no doubt will write this off as a routine oxidation evolution, and it is quite normal to evacuate the crew when this event is occurring.

[iNow]

Map of what happened in Bucha compiled by the NYT as told by local officials, coroners, and witnesses who've helped uncover details of many civilian executions committed by Russian troops while there. 

 

"Man who went out for bread," and "family of four" tell the real story here, IMO. 

"Mother shot next to daughter." 

1 hour ago, StringJunky said:

Russia has stated it will attack weapons imports from NATO, butI  imagine that's been a Russian priority anyway, and they are just saying it now.

Maybe someone should start a thread regarding the bad "optics" of Russian stating it's military priorities and how they agree with the decision but think they should've kept it quiet.

[MigL]

1 hour ago, iNow said:

Maybe someone should start a thread regarding the bad "optics" of Russian stating it's military priorities and how they agree with the decision but think they should've kept it quiet.

Did you start drinking early this morning ?
Now you want to compare what is expected of J Biden with what we already know V Putin is capable of ?

[iNow]

Don't be such a snowflake. It was a joke. /pokingsticks

[MigL]

Next time iclude some emojis, so I can tell.
You have a weird sense of humor 😃😄 .
( "And that's how we do it", to quote Jayden Smith )

[MSC]

2 hours ago, swansont said:

don't think that it's reasonable to expect anything to happen instantaneously, or nearly so.

While the world is a fast and busy place, the political process is slow and strangled in red tape.

[beecee]

8 hours ago, swansont said:

I don't think that it's reasonable to expect anything to happen instantaneously, or nearly so.

As Russia runs out of its stockpiled spare parts, things will get much worse. A war of attrition favored the Russians at the outset. But the asymmetric losses in the field and sanctions look to make that a non-viable strategy. 

I am sometimes an impatient old bastard. Let's all hope though, (for the sake of the innocent Ukrainians) that it does come more sooner then later.

[geordief]

Russia has a deployed a  new submarine corps in the Sea of Azos

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-61101906

[beecee]

9 hours ago, StringJunky said:

I read a few days ago, Ukraine were going to get anti-ship missiles, then one is on fire yesterday; coincidence?

https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1514694135004999689

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/14/russia-moskva-cruiser-sunk-stormy-seas-defense-ministry

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by beecee

[Genady]

You know that "Moskva" is "Moscow" in Russian, right?

[beecee]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/29/ukrainian-soldier-russian-warship-medal-snake-island

Ukraine gives medal to soldier who told Russian officer to ‘go fuck yourself’

Roman Hrybov, released in a prisoner swap, made remark over radio as warship approached on first day of invasion

3 minutes ago, Genady said:

You know that "Moskva" is "Moscow" in Russian, right?

I do now! 😉