War Games: Russia Takes Ukraine, China Takes Taiwan. US Response?

[geordief]

Wonder if it sank in Ukraine's territorial waters.

 

 

 

[MigL]

There was talk of Canada sending some Harpoon missiles, outfitted for coastal defense 

John Ivison: Ukraine asked us for missiles. We sent words | National Post

but I have no idea if that got lost in red tape, or if it actually happened.

[geordief]

1 minute ago, MigL said:

There was talk of Canada sending some Harpoon missiles, outfitted for coastal defense 

John Ivison: Ukraine asked us for missiles. We sent words | National Post

but I have no idea if that got lost in red tape, or if it actually happened.

You might send the Russians a few echo locators so you can be even handed about things.

[MSC]

Looks like Russia is threatening moving Nukes around if Finland and Sweden join NATO. 

Am I the only one who is unfazed by this? There are Nukes aimed everywhere already so what's a few more at this point? Move them around. Most likely all talks of using them are bluffs anyway. If it weren't a bluff, I think Kyiv would be a smoking radioactive crater by now.

[geordief]

15 minutes ago, MSC said:

Looks like Russia is threatening moving Nukes around if Finland and Sweden join NATO. 

Am I the only one who is unfazed by this? There are Nukes aimed everywhere already so what's a few more at this point? Move them around. Most likely all talks of using them are bluffs anyway. If it weren't a bluff, I think Kyiv would be a smoking radioactive crater by now.

I think I may be more worried about the idea  that there may have been nuclear  weapons on board the Moskva and that the Ukrainian  missile  had to somehow avoid hitting them directly.

 

I am only just learning  about this

Is it routine for the major militaries to carry nuclear weapons into war zones?

 

[TheVat]

Well, Russia has a lot of tactical nukes, the lower yield bombs that some in Russia seem to think are less morally reprehensible and could be used on a battlefield or to take out a hardened military target.  Putin and others have made some thinly veiled threats that such nukes might be used if they perceive a threat to Russia, say anything poised to cross its borders or flyovers by hostile aircraft or, for all I can tell, switching the dinner fork and the salad fork at Vlad's table setting.  As @MSC suggests, not much reason to be fazed by the latest bit of nuclear bluster directed at Finland, given that tactical nukes move around easily and there are already a couple thousand that can be lobbed most anyplace in Europe.  

It's not clear to me what was on the Moskva from media reports.

Edited April 15, 2022 by TheVat
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[iNow]

1 hour ago, TheVat said:

It's not clear to me what was on the Moskva from media reports.

Mostly it was Russian pride and reputation that sank. 

[J.C.MacSwell]

If Putin feels tactical nukes should be used in case of an existential threat to Russia he should aim one at his head and press the button.

[LaurieAG]

22 hours ago, beecee said:

I'll gladly and proudly stand by my judgement of this war criminal, based on the reasonable assessment of the evidence available.

JFK's murderer felt exactly the same way!

[SergUpstart]

6 hours ago, iNow said:

Mostly it was Russian pride and reputation that sank. 

Exactly. It is unclear what a cruiser armed with anti-ship missiles was doing there. There could be no corresponding combat mission for him there.

On 4/11/2022 at 11:01 PM, Phi for All said:

Fuck you, Putin!

If you hate, then you have already been defeated - Confucius

[swansont]

12 hours ago, geordief said:

Wonder if it sank in Ukraine's territorial waters.

It was being towed, and some time had passed, so probably not. But reports are that the Russians have moved their fleet away not closer than 80 nautical miles to Ukrainian territory. Presumably to prevent further "accidents"

[SergUpstart]

The United States should stop all official contacts with Taiwan, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said at a briefing on Friday.

 

Xi Jinping's ultimatum?????

[J.C.MacSwell]

5 minutes ago, SergUpstart said:

The United States should stop all official contacts with Taiwan, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said at a briefing on Friday.

After all...it worked out so well for Hong Kong.

[dimreepr]

I wonder what happens, when Putin starts to lose because of western supply of arm's; it's a fine balance of allowing Putin to win enough to avoid him going to war with NATO. 

[swansont]

14 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

I wonder what happens, when Putin starts to lose because of western supply of arm's; it's a fine balance of allowing Putin to win enough to avoid him going to war with NATO. 

 

There's no balance here. NATO will certainly defend if attacked but aren't going to attack otherwise, so there's nothing else that have to do to avoid war. They don't have to concede anything to Putin.

From what we've seen in Ukraine, Putin's not going to win against NATO, whose members have better weapons and more (possibly even better-trained) personnel.

[J.C.MacSwell]

31 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

I wonder what happens, when Putin starts to lose because of western supply of arm's; it's a fine balance of allowing Putin to win enough to avoid him going to war with NATO. 

Any attempt at a fine balance is almost directly costing more and more lives of Ukrainian civilians, Ukrainian military personnel, and possibly ultimately more Russian troops as well.

[beecee]

4 hours ago, LaurieAG said:

JFK's murderer felt exactly the same way!

There's about as much wisdom in that remark, as the many remarks Pauline Hansen has made. 

For our Northern hemisphere friends, Pauline Hansen is an Australian  fish n chip shop owner, turned xenophobic politician, about the same ilk as America's (Alaska) Sara Palin, perhaps a rung or two lower morally speaking.

A closer analogy in actual fact was the number of times Hitler's own military and others tried unsuccessful attempts to get rid of him. Maybe some reasonable Russian military personel will likewise try and hopefully with more success at getting rid of this crazy murdering son of a bitch, that is responsible for invading another country, waging war, war crimes such as rape and murder, and the use of unlawful weapons by all reports.

5 hours ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

If Putin feels tactical nukes should be used in case of an existential threat to Russia he should aim one at his head and press the button.

Whether or not this is an empty threat, it still goes to show the mentality of this raving looney. 

 

Moves such as the following might force his hand one way or the other.....

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/finland-sweden-move-ahead-nato-membership-84057499

Finland, Sweden move ahead toward possible NATO membership

European Union nations Finland and Sweden have reached important stages on their way to possible NATO membership

[dimreepr]

22 minutes ago, swansont said:

From what we've seen in Ukraine, Putin's not going to win against NATO, whose members have better weapons and more (possibly even better-trained) personnel.

Indeed, But we've also seen his determination to win, something, at any cost...

28 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Any attempt at a fine balance is almost directly costing more and more lives of Ukrainian civilians, Ukrainian military personnel, and possibly ultimately more Russian troops as well.

The needs of the many, is always a fine balance; the needs of the one is no corollary.

[beecee]

3 hours ago, SergUpstart said:

If you hate, then you have already been defeated - Confucius

Some humans (if they can be described as that) are indistinguishable from the evil they perform/undertake. eg: Idi Amin; Adolf Hitler; Putin. They deserve nothing more than hate. 

[dimreepr]

5 minutes ago, beecee said:

Some humans (if they can be described as that) are indistinguishable from the evil they perform/undertake. eg: Idi Amin; Adolf Hitler; Putin. They deserve nothing more than hate. 

The point Confucius is trying to make is, if we just hate instead of trying to understand; then we all lose...

[iNow]

4 hours ago, SergUpstart said:

Exactly. It is unclear what a cruiser armed with anti-ship missiles was doing there. There could be no corresponding combat mission for him there.

That's not what I was saying. Unsure why you think we're in agreement. Putin saying it sank due to an accident is like when people said it wasn't covid that killed the diabetic, but their diabetes. Well... they were doing fine until that covid hit, much like the ship was doing fine until that missile hit. 

15 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

The point Confucius is trying to make is, if we just hate instead of trying to understand; then we all lose...

It doesn't matter whether or not someone hates Putin, and this thread isn't about the finer intricacies of hate versus love. It's about stopping unwarranted slaughter of innocents and anyone who dares call themselves Ukrainian. 

[zapatos]

5 hours ago, SergUpstart said:

It is unclear what a cruiser armed with anti-ship missiles was doing there. There could be no corresponding combat mission for him there.

The cruiser performed multiple roles. In addition to anti-ship missiles, it was armed with torpedos, canon, and most importantly in the Black Sea, surface to air missiles to provide air cover for the rest of the fleet.

With the loss of the Moskva and the inability of Russia to bring in a replacement due to Turkey closing the Turkish Straits to the belligerents, Russia's Black Sea fleet cannot operate as freely as they have been doing.

One description I saw described the loss by saying the Black Sea changed from Russia's backyard swimming pool to a room with no exits.

[TheVat]

The stamp graphic is doubly clever in that it also has the colors of the composition roughly in the same motif as the country's flag.

[geordief]

4 hours ago, zapatos said:

The cruiser performed multiple roles. In addition to anti-ship missiles, it was armed with torpedos, canon, and most importantly in the Black Sea, surface to air missiles to provide air cover for the rest of the fleet.

With the loss of the Moskva and the inability of Russia to bring in a replacement due to Turkey closing the Turkish Straits to the belligerents, Russia's Black Sea fleet cannot operate as freely as they have been doing.

One description I saw described the loss by saying the Black Sea changed from Russia's backyard swimming pool to a room with no exits.

Pissing in the bath?

[J.C.MacSwell]

1 hour ago, TheVat said:

The stamp graphic is doubly clever in that it also has the colors of the composition roughly in the same motif as the country's flag.

They need a second stamp, almost identical except with the ship on it's side starting to go down.