War Games: Russia Takes Ukraine, China Takes Taiwan. US Response?

[geordief]

16 minutes ago, TheVat said:

Yes.  Plus one.  There are good reasons extrajudicial killings (that is, outside of a battlefield and outside of a criminal court) violate international law.  And, as your hypotheticals illustrate, one good reason is based in the Law of Unintended Consequences.  Not only in terms of who fills the power void in that country, but also in the global erosion of liberal democracy, rule of law, and fair play.   You may have understated the chaos and ruin that could come from an open season on heads of state.  

So I was quite wrong in my post just 3 places above?

https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/126218-war-games-russia-takes-ukraine-china-takes-taiwan-us-response/?do=findComment&comment=1206165

 

Eg Targeting Hitler personally  would have been very inadvisable  (and illegal) even though we were then at war with Germany and he was their commander in chief?

 

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by geordief

[TheVat]

48 minutes ago, geordief said:

So I was quite wrong in my post just 3 places above?

https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/126218-war-games-russia-takes-ukraine-china-takes-taiwan-us-response/?do=findComment&comment=1206165

 

Eg Targeting Hitler personally  would have been very inadvisable  (and illegal) even though we were then at war with Germany and he was their commander in chief?

 

 

I am not quite the expert in international law, so there is no future for me telling anyone they are wrong about the legalities.  But it is what I've gleaned - that EJK of heads of state, in recent decades anyway, is viewed as illegal and not a lot of flex on that.  Apparently there is some flex where terrorist leaders are concerned, when they are defined as stateless.  E.g. just because Pakistan harbors you, doesn't mean you have the same protection as the president of Pakistan.   Even in situations where a head of state is indicted as a war criminal, they would still have to be extradited (or abducted, depending on one's allegiances) to Switzerland and stand trial.  

As I said before, throwing out international law and conventions, no matter how tempting, seems a path to chaos and ruin, with a world run by authoritarian warlords.  I thought Phi, a couple posts above mine on the previous page, painted a plausible picture.

[geordief]

13 minutes ago, TheVat said:

I am not quite the expert in international law, so there is no future for me telling anyone they are wrong about the legalities.  But it is what I've gleaned - that EJK of heads of state, in recent decades anyway, is viewed as illegal and not a lot of flex on that.  Apparently there is some flex where terrorist leaders are concerned, when they are defined as stateless.  E.g. just because Pakistan harbors you, doesn't mean you have the same protection as the president of Pakistan.   Even in situations where a head of state is indicted as a war criminal, they would still have to be extradited (or abducted, depending on one's allegiances) to Switzerland and stand trial.  

As I said before, throwing out international law and conventions, no matter how tempting, seems a path to chaos and ruin, with a world run by authoritarian warlords.  I thought Phi, a couple posts above mine on the previous page, painted a plausible picture.

I am not even sure it would be that tempting  an option  even if it was feasible (though Castro apparently was targeted several times  by the CIA)

 

I mean ,had Hitler been  taken out of the equation in the  failed attempt to kill him by German officers  it is maybe very arguable that the Wehmakt might have   fought more intelligently without his  unhinged interference in an area he was not an expert in.

 

After all ,towards the end he apparently  accused the German people of being unworthy of his ambitions 

 

Some leader ,an asset to his supposed enemies.

 

[CharonY]

4 hours ago, geordief said:

I am not even sure it would be that tempting  an option  even if it was feasible (though Castro apparently was targeted several times  by the CIA)

 

I mean ,had Hitler been  taken out of the equation in the  failed attempt to kill him by German officers  it is maybe very arguable that the Wehmakt might have   fought more intelligently without his  unhinged interference in an area he was not an expert in.

 

After all ,towards the end he apparently  accused the German people of being unworthy of his ambitions 

 

Some leader ,an asset to his supposed enemies.

 

With the exception of an Polish attempt all assassination attempts on Hitler were IIRC conducted by Germans and in the later years increasingly as an attempt to save Germany. The big issue is of course that alternative  history speculations are just that. It is unclear what the result would be. One might even speculate on wildly successful eugenics (and genocide) plans throughout the world  (which were heavily promoted and were very popular in the USA and Canada) without the horrors of the holocaust laid bare.

Hitler wasn't an outlier, he just happened to be the one getting into power.

As Phi mentioned, what if nazis in the US became more influential? America First was coined by US Nazis, afterwards, who rapidly lost influence once the US entered the war.

 

[beecee]

9 hours ago, geordief said:

We are not at war with Russia.If we were , the  assassination of its leader would not  as far as I know be a war crime or similar.

 

 

We were at war with Germany and so the assassination  of Hitler would have just been part of the war.

 

As we are not at war with Russia an assassination  attempt by a Nato country  would be both stupid and also  very probably used  as a casus belli (just what we all need)

 

In my previous posts re taking this war criminal out, I always preferred it be done by one of his confidants, close assoccciates or a normal Joe Blow Russian citizen.

[SergUpstart]

3 hours ago, beecee said:

In my previous posts re taking this war criminal out, I always preferred it be done by one of his confidants, close assoccciates or a normal Joe Blow Russian citizen.

Do you want Kadyrov instead of Putin?? I'm not

[Phi for All]

3 hours ago, SergUpstart said:

Do you want Kadyrov instead of Putin?? I'm not

Whataboutist arguments are hollow and feeble, especially this one. You're basically saying, "Better the devil you know...". Are devils all that Russia has to offer its people?

[dimreepr]

15 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

Whataboutist arguments are hollow and feeble, especially this one. You're basically saying, "Better the devil you know...". Are devils all that Russia has to offer its people?

Indeed, if we pay more attention to their culture, we might start to understand their reason's for choosing the devil they know... 

[J.C.MacSwell]

8 hours ago, dimreepr said:

Indeed, if we pay more attention to their culture, we might start to understand their reason's for choosing the devil they know... 

Easier choice to make with the equivalent of a gun held to your head than, say, having to rely on the burden of having free will.

[geordief]

8 hours ago, dimreepr said:

Indeed, if we pay more attention to their culture, we might start to understand their reason's for choosing the devil they know... 

It is hard enough to understand the culture we are born into without shouldering the responsibility  of understanding  the train wreck that is the Russo Soviet counterpart.

 

It is hard to imagine they have had much of a free choice  up to now

Maybe they would like to share their misery around.

 

 

Edited April 27, 2022 by geordief

[StringJunky]

2 hours ago, geordief said:

Maybe they would like to share their misery around.

That's what it boils down to, any useful resources should be pointed at the problem to avoid that misery .

Edited April 28, 2022 by StringJunky

[MSC]

Russia cuts off Gas supplies to Poland and Bulgaria, claiming others could be next.

This fuckin guy. Now he's weaponising energy demands and trying to divide NATO on their consensus to give more aid to Ukraine. 

Edit: Link takes you to NBC. Just for clarity.

Edited April 28, 2022 by MSC

[iNow]

25 minutes ago, MSC said:

. Now he's weaponising energy demands and trying to divide NATO on their consensus to give more aid to Ukraine. 

Good. Convince the world to maybe after 40 years of delaying to move more rapidly off the fuels that are warming the planet

[MSC]

15 minutes ago, iNow said:

Good. Convince the world to maybe after 40 years of delaying to move more rapidly off the fuels that are warming the planet

My thoughts exactly 😆 

[SergUpstart]

40 minutes ago, MSC said:

This fuckin guy. Now he's weaponising energy demands and trying to divide NATO on their consensus to give more aid to Ukraine. 

These countries refused to pay for gas in rubles. No payment, you will not get gas, it is not free to supply

[iNow]

1 minute ago, SergUpstart said:

These countries refused to pay for gas in rubles. No payment, you will not get gas, it is not free to supply

Yeah, because the only option remaining if not paying is rubles is “free” 🙄

[MSC]

39 minutes ago, SergUpstart said:

These countries refused to pay for gas in rubles. No payment, you will not get gas, it is not free to supply

Contracts were signed ages ago to pay in other currencies. Contracts are a bitch huh? Doesn't it suck when people have written evidence of what your promises are?

[SergUpstart]

1 hour ago, MSC said:

Contracts were signed ages ago to pay in other currencies.

Circumstances have changed. These currencies have become unreliable.

[Endy0816]

36 minutes ago, SergUpstart said:

Circumstances have changed. These currencies have become unreliable.

 

They're trying to increase demand for the Ruble, which is understandable, but even countries can't break contracts willy-nilly.

You don't want your customers concluding you may change your terms at any time.

[SergUpstart]

2 hours ago, Endy0816 said:

You don't want your customers concluding you may change your terms at any time.

Do you not want your customers to pay you to accounts that are already blocked or may be blocked at any time?

5 hours ago, iNow said:

Yeah, because the only option remaining if not paying is rubles is “free” 🙄

They can pay in yuan, gold bars or barter goods. Offer

[Endy0816]

39 minutes ago, SergUpstart said:

Do you not want your customers to pay you to accounts that are already blocked or may be blocked at any time?

They can pay in yuan, gold bars or barter goods. Offer

I wouldn't have invaded to begin with. The strategic Crimean port had already been obtained. Trying to take/keep unwilling territory is a losing proposition in this day and age.

 

[SergUpstart]

12 minutes ago, Endy0816 said:

. The strategic Crimean port had already been obtained. Trying to take/keep unwilling territory is a losing proposition in this day and age.

That is why Russia has withdrawn troops from the Kiev, Sumi and Chernihiv regions. But Donetsk and Luhansk regions are already undesirable territory for Ukraine.

In addition, today there is a question of a fair solution to the problem of Transnistria. Today, Moldovan President Maia Sandu announced the possibility of Moldova's reunification with Romania if the majority of citizens speak out for it. But the absolute majority of the inhabitants of Transnistria will be against it. Therefore, when Moldova is recreated with Romania, the independence of Transnistria should be recognized.

Edited April 28, 2022 by SergUpstart

[iNow]

8 hours ago, SergUpstart said:

That is why Russia has withdrawn troops from the Kiev, Sumi and Chernihiv regions. But Donetsk and Luhansk regions are already undesirable territory for Ukraine.

Except just today they bombed Kyiv. Liar. 

[SergUpstart]

18 minutes ago, iNow said:

Except just today they bombed Kyiv.

Three non-nuclear missiles bombed the whole of Kiev. ha-ha

They hit the Artem plant with three missiles. A military factory, a legitimate target.

[StringJunky]

43 minutes ago, SergUpstart said:

Three non-nuclear missiles bombed the whole of Kiev. ha-ha

They hit the Artem plant with three missiles. A military factory, a legitimate target.

Wow! Fucking Hell! A first, Russia actually hit a legitimate target for the first time in two months.