War Games: Russia Takes Ukraine, China Takes Taiwan. US Response?

[iNow]

2 hours ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

the willful ignorance of the average Russian isn't so impressive either. How smart do you have to be to recognize the continuous self contradictions of the state media, the ones now calling for retribution against Kiev for the murder of Dugina. (like they know the Ukraine government was behind it, because the Kremlin said so before even investigating)

Sounds like the average Trump voter in the US who believes Antifa stormed the US capitol on Jan6 and that immigrants are the reason they don’t have healthcare. 

[MigL]

28 minutes ago, mistermack said:

Because the USA, a country built on stolen lands, on the backs of slavery, never stops lecturing the world

Stick to the subject.
What country is invading, destroying and trying to annex another sovereign country, right now ?

The American President can go nearly everwhere in the world without fear of being targeted for assassination ( well, maybe not D Trump ).
Where can V Putin go ?
 

[mistermack]

1 minute ago, MigL said:

The American President can go nearly everwhere in the world without fear of being targeted for assassination

Yeh, right. 

[J.C.MacSwell]

2 minutes ago, iNow said:

Sounds like the average Trump voter in the US who believes Antifa stormed the US capitol on Jan6 and that immigrants are the reason they don’t have healthcare. 

Yeah. No. That's the fringe. The average Trump voter holds his nose and votes Trump (the guy who would back ANTIFA to the hilt if they were pro-Trump), due to their perception that the offered alternative is worse, despite how bad he is. Hopefully they find the guts to turf him out, lest the Dems underestimate the power of the stupidity, and continue to allow it to be matched on their side, and yield another coin toss election.

But as you like to inform everyone...that's off topic.

[iNow]

1 hour ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

The average Trump voter holds his nose and votes Trump

I don’t think you have a valid understanding of the population to whom I’m referring. At least not based on comments like these. 

[CharonY]

23 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

The average Trump voter holds his nose and votes Trump (the guy who would back ANTIFA to the hilt if they were pro-Trump), due to their perception that the offered alternative is worse, despite how bad he is.

Do you have data to that shows that it is true (aside from gut feeling, that is)? The primaries in which traditional conservatives (such as Cheney) are losing their seats to crazy pro-Trumpists suggest otherwise. 

[iNow]

7 minutes ago, CharonY said:

The primaries in which traditional conservatives (such as Cheney) are losing their seats to crazy pro-Trumpists suggest otherwise. 

In every single GOP primary thus far this year, about HALF of the candidates that Trump came out AGAINST have lost, and ALL of the candidates Trump came out FOR have won. 

[CharonY]

32 minutes ago, iNow said:

In every single GOP primary thus far this year, about HALF of the candidates that Trump came out AGAINST have lost, and ALL of the candidates Trump came out FOR have won. 

The voters really came out against traditional conservatism and really marched into, well whatever this is. 

[J.C.MacSwell]

51 minutes ago, CharonY said:

Do you have data to that shows that it is true (aside from gut feeling, that is)? The primaries in which traditional conservatives (such as Cheney) are losing their seats to crazy pro-Trumpists suggest otherwise. 

I have data that notes you haven't questioned the post I directed that at, and have a gut feeling you won't.

 

 

3 hours ago, iNow said:

Sounds like the average Trump voter in the US who believes Antifa stormed the US capitol on Jan6 and that immigrants are the reason they don’t have healthcare. 

 

[zapatos]

13 minutes ago, CharonY said:

The voters really came out against traditional conservatism and really marched into, well whatever this is. 

This is a continuous battle against the establishment, deep state government, and all things Democratic. They simply picked up the baton dropped by the Tea Party, who picked up the baton dropped by the New Gingrich cabal, who picked up the baton dropped by Goldwater/Reagan crowd, who picked up the baton dropped by McCarthyism, who picked up the baton dropped by America First. 

I imagine in 10 years MAGA will be gone and others will gleefully carry on the eternal battle.

[iNow]

10 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

I have data that notes you haven't questioned the post I directed that at, and have a gut feeling you won't.

Charon didn’t need to question me bc Charon knows the data and recognizes my claim was entirely fair and valid, but since you asked so passive aggressively nicely
 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/02/21/exclusive-trump-party-he-still-holds-loyalty-gop-voters/6765406002/

‘Most Trump voters embrace a version of events on Jan. 6 that has been debunked by independent fact checkers and law enforcement agencies.

Asked to describe what happened during the assault on the Capitol, 58% of Trump voters call it "mostly an antifa-inspired attack that only involved a few Trump supporters." That's more than double the 28% who call it "a rally of Trump supporters, some of whom attacked the Capitol."”

And to your actual point about all those voters just holding their noses over Trump: 

So sure. Feel free to nitpick my choice of word, but the core and thrust of my comment was absolutely valid. Unlike your stance that the moderate never trumpers have any sway right now in the country or even their party. 

But where we do agree is, yes. This is totally off-topic. I’ll simply repeat my point that those dumb Russian people buying the lies you mentioned? They remind me of a group right here in the US.

 

 

[MigL]

Before we get too carried away in this off-topic track, remember that almost half the voters elected D Trump in 2016, because a lot of them disliked H Clinton.
And a lot more voters came out for the 2020 election, not because they liked J Biden and the Democrat 'vision', but because they had come to detest D Trump's behaviour.
That seems to be the direction we are going in; not voting FOR someone we 'like', but against someone we 'dislike'.
But to compare your fellow citizens to what the Russians have done, and are doing ...
Should we also aim nuclear missiles at them ?

[J.C.MacSwell]

2 hours ago, iNow said:

 

But where we do agree is, yes. This is totally off-topic. I’ll simply repeat my point that those dumb Russian people buying the lies you mentioned? They remind me of a group right here in the US.

 

 

Okay. Fair enough and you have supported your point. The link backs it up.

I apologise to both yourself and CY.

[SergUpstart]

Here is another call for the genocide of Russians.This is the Ambassador of Ukraine to Kazakhstan Petar Vrublevski. He says that it is necessary to kill as many Russians as possible: "The more Russians we kill now, the less our children will have to kill."

https://srbin.info/en/svet/sto-vise-rusa-ubijemo-manje-ce-morati-nasa-deca-moskva-reagovala-na/

The Ambassador of Ukraine to Kazakhstan, Pyotr Vrublevsky, was summoned to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Republic after his statements made in an interview with Kazakh blogger Dias Kuzairov. "The Kazakh side expressed its position on the unacceptability and incompatibility of such statements with the activities of the ambassador of a foreign state. Such actions should not damage friendly relations between states," the Kazakh Foreign Ministry said in a statement.

Edited August 23, 2022 by SergUpstart

[swansont]

1 hour ago, SergUpstart said:

Here is another call for the genocide of Russians.

Killing invading soldiers in time of war is not genocide.

 

[TheVat]

The ambassador to Kazakhstan?  Wow, they really had to do some digging there.  Maybe they should get a sound-bite from Borat, too.

Re the Gingrich/Tea/Trump devolution, the one positive about many US voters is that they are fickle.  Dangle a different set of shiny car keys in front of them and Trump will be forgotten.  And, as Zapatos noted, the eternal battle will go on, driven always by the tension between oligarchy and democracy.  And the dismal trend of running on "owning" some opposition rather than real problem solving with innovative policy.   

[swansont]

I should point out that forced adoption of children taken in occupation, which Russia has done, IS an example of genocide.

See article 6(e)

https://www.icc-cpi.int/sites/default/files/RS-Eng.pdf

[TheVat]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/08/22/alexander-dugin-daughter-car-bombing-distrust-official-narrative/

 

 

First, Dugin is far less important than some people are suggesting. He’s not “Putin’s brain.” There is no evidence that Dugin has ever met Putin in person, much less offered him regular advice, and I am yet to be convinced that the Russian president spends his leisure time poring over turgid political tracts. Putin didn’t have to read Dugin’s writings to come up with plans to annex Crimea or undermine Ukrainian statehood — both of those ideas have long been widespread among certain members of the Russian elite. Putin has his own brain.

Second, killing Dugin will likely have zero direct effect on Russia’s war against Ukraine. Staging such an attack in Putin’s backyard might boost Ukrainian morale a bit. But that seems like a lot of risk for the sake of eliminating someone who plays no actual role in the conduct of the war. Dugin, it is worth noting, has no government position; his only function is as a propagandist — and Russia is oversupplied with those. (Both Dugin and his daughter have indulged in genocidal rhetoric against Ukrainians — which, sadly, places them solidly in the mainstream of Russian public discourse today.)

And that brings us to the most important point — that we shouldn’t take Kremlin statements at face value. Russia is a paranoid dictatorship prosecuting one of the most brazen acts of international aggression in decades. In 2014, Putin wholeheartedly denied that his troops were seizing control of Crimea until the operation was finished; today, six months after the start of the invasion, it remains a crime to state the truth that Russia is waging “war” in Ukraine. Dictatorships, by their nature, do not deal in truths. Any information released by the Russian authorities should be treated less as a description of reality than as a political tool.

https://archive.ph/XIeh4 

Non-PW version of above

 

 

[SergUpstart]

9 hours ago, swansont said:

Killing invading soldiers in time of war is not genocide.

I repeat the quote from Pyotr Vrublevsky's words "The more Russians we know, the less our children will have to kill." There is not a word about soldiers in it, only about Russians.

[J.C.MacSwell]

2 hours ago, SergUpstart said:

I repeat the quote from Pyotr Vrublevsky's words "The more Russians we know, the less our children will have to kill." There is not a word about soldiers in it, only about Russians.

kill...not know

Regrettable public statement by an ambassador, even with all the civilian deaths and casualties suffered by Ukrainians, and military deaths and casualties suffered by Ukrainians, none of whom chose to be attacked in the illegal manner they have been...and even knowing the number of Russian body bags filled with naive Russian soldiers might eventually affect the wars outcome.

[SergUpstart]

9 hours ago, swansont said:

I should point out that forced adoption of children taken in occupation, which Russia has done, IS an example of genocide.

Then the ban on education in Russian should also be considered genocide.

[zapatos]

17 minutes ago, SergUpstart said:

Then the ban on education in Russian should also be considered genocide.

Can you please explain why?

[mistermack]

6 hours ago, zapatos said:

Can you please explain why?

Both are fake news.

[swansont]

15 hours ago, SergUpstart said:

I repeat the quote from Pyotr Vrublevsky's words "The more Russians we know, the less our children will have to kill." There is not a word about soldiers in it, only about Russians.

Pretty lame argument. I think the context of there being an invasion, and that Russian invaders are being killed, is something that doesn’t need to be stated

 

[iNow]

Moving away from dumb posts and distractions…

 

US has just committed another $3 Billion in military aid to hel Ukraine defend themselves against the illegal Russian attempt to kill their people and steal their land.