War Games: Russia Takes Ukraine, China Takes Taiwan. US Response?

[TheVat]

Perhaps some more indication that sanctions are working:

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-business-europe-economy-foreign-debt-572b9a32691739fb6322fba4c301d9f1

BOSTON (AP) — The credit ratings agency Standard & Poor’s has downgraded its assessment of Russia’s ability to repay foreign debt, signaling rising prospects that Moscow will soon default on external loans for the first time in more than a century.

S&P Global Ratings issued the downgrade to “selective default” late Friday after Russia arranged to make foreign bond payments in rubles on Monday when they were due in dollars. It said it didn’t expect Russia to be able to convert the rubles into dollars within the 30-day grace period allowed.

S&P said in a statement that its decision was based partly on its opinion that sanctions on Russia over its invasion of Ukraine “are likely to be further increased in the coming weeks, hampering Russia’s willingness and technical abilities to honor the terms and conditions of its obligations to foreign debtholders.”

[SergUpstart]

2 hours ago, mistermack said:

I WOULD surrender if I was in charge of Mariupol right now. But then, if I was in charge of the Russian invasion, I would never have attacked it any way. 

From a purely military point of view, I would also not storm Mariupol. I would leave this city surrounded by small forces, and I would throw most of the troops bypassing the Donbass group from the south. My opinion is that here Putin repeated Stalin's mistake with regard to Stalingrad. In 1943, it was not necessary to storm the encircled army of Paulus, and the troops involved in the assault should have been thrown into the offensive on Rostov-on-Don. If it
had been possible to cut off the entire army group South Manstein, then the war would have ended a year earlier. The Soviet Army would have reached Paris, not just Berlin.

Although maybe I don't know something. Perhaps there is something very valuable for Russia in Mariupol. What can explain such a strong desire of Ukraine to evacuate someone valuable from Mariupol? They have already lost 5 helicopters in these hopeless attempts. Last night there was an incident with a Ukrainian cargo ship under the flag of Malta trying to break into Mariupol. He was stopped only by fire to kill after not responding to warning shots.

[joigus]

Now that Mistermark has left for a couple of weeks,

There's still an echo of bells lingering in the air, sounding,

Chamberlain, Chamberlain...,

 

The politics of throwing the dog a bone.

It's not like it hasn't been practiced before,

It's not like we're clueless about the horrours it brought.

Megalomania is easy to diagnose, and we know the profile very well.

Putin is a shameless narcisist, and that's plain to see. He plays dominant male primate to a tee.

[beecee]

22 hours ago, zapatos said:

One of the reasons to add sanctions piecemeal instead of all at once is psychological. You are showing Putin and the Russian people that no matter how bad things are, they can continue to get worse.

That is a point, but still the reality exists that atrocities appear to be happening everyday with hundreds dying everyday. My suggestion, hopefully could stop that...hopefully!!

On another note, I am flabergasted at the twists and turns in the arguments being put in this thread, and the attempted justifications of those atrocities by some. Christ almighty, the situation is as plain as day!!! A narcissistic meglomaniac ratbag has invaded a neighbouring country. To attempt to justify that, is wrong in the extreme.

[SergUpstart]

On 4/9/2022 at 3:36 AM, StringJunky said:

Just noticed Russian Tochka missiles used in the railway massacre are green and the Ukrainian version is grey.

Here is the decisive proof of whose rocket arrived at the station in Kramatorsk (its serial number)

Earlier , Ukrainian militants used missiles from the same series with the following numbers:

Alchevsk - Sh91565 (February, 2015)
Logvinovo - Sh91566 (February, 2015)
Berdyansk - Sh915611 (2022)
Melitopol - Sh915516 (2022)

[Genady]

30 minutes ago, SergUpstart said:

Here is the decisive proof of whose rocket arrived at the station in Kramatorsk (its serial number)

Earlier , Ukrainian militants used missiles from the same series with the following numbers:

Alchevsk - Sh91565 (February, 2015)
Logvinovo - Sh91566 (February, 2015)
Berdyansk - Sh915611 (2022)
Melitopol - Sh915516 (2022)

How do we know that this is the same missile in the picture? How do we know that the other numbers are true?

[J.C.MacSwell]

4 minutes ago, Genady said:

How do we know that this is the same missile in the picture? How do we know that the other numbers are true?

How could it be so clean and untarnished if it hadn't sped through the air toward that train station?

[iNow]

It’s almost certainly not. He doesn’t care that the info comes from people who intentionally disinform people as part of their war strategy nor that the rest of the world who know more than him flatly disagree with his conclusion. 

Edited April 10, 2022 by iNow

[dimreepr]

For the rational among us, war is not a game...

[TheVat]

53 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

How could it be so clean and untarnished if it hadn't sped through the air toward that train station?

Plus one, and a belly laugh.  Admittedly, I was already chuckling over Sergei's use of the phrase "decisive proof." 

[Alex_Krycek]

In case it hasn't been established yet, thought I'd point out the obvious that what Russia is doing clearly qualifies as genocide:

From the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (United Nations)

Article II In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

(killing Ukrainians because of their nationality)

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(civilians targeted everywhere in Ukraine)

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(widespread indiscriminate shelling of civilian areas)

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(bombed maternity hospital)

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group

(relocating women and children from Ukraine to camps in Russia)

Source:  https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1_Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.pdf

[iNow]

1 hour ago, Alex_Krycek said:

In case it hasn't been established yet, thought I'd point out the obvious that what Russia is doing clearly qualifies as genocide:

Agreed. Genocide, war crimes, and more. Putin and many of his leaders could easily be convicted if someone had the spine to go put handcuffs on him and march him out of the Kremlin.

However, Bashar al-Assad also did many of these things several years ago, and you'll notice he's still (more or less) free to roam around and live life as he pleases. 

These labels from international bodies and organizations like the UN don't tend to today carry much weight, and I suspect a lot of those with libertarian tendencies prefer it that way, but it's off topic here. 

[SergUpstart]

3 hours ago, Alex_Krycek said:

From the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (United Nations)

On April 3, 2022, Filatov posted on the social network Facebook, where he published a call for the murder of Russians around the world: "Now we have the full moral right, calmly and with a completely clear mind, to kill these non-humans all over the world, an unlimited amount of time and in the largest possible quantities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borys_Filatov

This is certainly not genocide, but it is a call for genocide

[Phi for All]

33 minutes ago, SergUpstart said:

On April 3, 2022, Filatov posted on the social network Facebook, where he published a call for the murder of Russians around the world: "Now we have the full moral right, calmly and with a completely clear mind, to kill these non-humans all over the world, an unlimited amount of time and in the largest possible quantities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borys_Filatov

This is certainly not genocide, but it is a call for genocide

This is certainly misinformation being pushed on us by you. There are two FB posts mentioned in this Wikipedia article, and one is allegedly fake. The translation doesn't mention "Russians" (but you know that better than I do), but instead it calls out the "inhumans" (or the perpetrators of observed attrocities). It can't be "murder", because this is a war, no matter what Putin says. Russia has been using foreign troops known for their inhumane approach to warfare. Given the overall hatchet-job look of that Wiki (more scandals space than bio space), I'd say this is more Russian propaganda. 

What makes it even more insulting is trying to hide obvious genocide (bombing maternity hospitals and train stations full of fleeing families) with your manufactured version. Fuck you, Putin!

[beecee]

16 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

What makes it even more insulting is trying to hide obvious genocide (bombing maternity hospitals and train stations full of fleeing families) with your manufactured version. Fuck you, Putin!

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I am absolutely flabbergasted how some can twist facts to suit any particular sickening agenda they wish! To repeat myself again, the best that can happen is that some Russian citizen take this war criminal out, (Putin)  by whatever means at their disposal.

[geordief]

With regards to the Taiwan  part of the OP Stephen Sakur interviewed the Taipei  representative to the EU on Hard Talk on the BBC last night.

Quite pointed questions and relevant to this thread,which was started before the actual invasion.

I imagine it can be found on satellite or the BBC player.(eventually  youtube)

Edited April 11, 2022 by geordief

[iNow]

5 minutes ago, geordief said:

Quite pointed questions and relevant to this thread,which was started before the actual invasion.

I imagine it can be found on satellite or the BBC player.(eventually  youtube)

Thanks for the tip  

(and yes, I started this thread over 3 months before the invasion so it's evolved)

[MonDie]

Apparently most Ukrainians know Russian, both Slavic languages along with polish, but not vice versa.  Russians are obviously slavophobic toward Ukrainians, and that is why they assumed an easy victory / easy reunification, with a people whose language they don't even understand.  Russian-speaking Slavs need to make sure that this war inflicts maximum damage on Putin's popularity and legitimacy, which amazingly has not happened yet.  Let's withhold nukes from all unilingual societies.

I learned a little Spanish in highschool, which I never used. 😕

Bilingualism is linked to "cognitive flexibility", and "verbal intelligence" is inversely related to prejudice.

[Genady]

9 minutes ago, MonDie said:

Apparently most Ukrainians know Russian, both Slavic languages along with polish, but not vice versa.  Russians are obviously slavophobic toward Ukrainians, and that is why they assumed an easy victory / easy reunification, with a people whose language they don't even understand.  Russian-speaking Slavs need to make sure that this war inflicts maximum damage on Putin's popularity and legitimacy, which amazingly has not happened yet.  Let's withhold nukes from all unilingual societies.

I learned a little Spanish in highschool, which I never used. 😕

Bilingualism is linked to "cognitive flexibility", and "verbal intelligence" is inversely related to prejudice.

Of course they know Russian - Russian was the main language in all USSR, for 70+ years. I know Russian, too, it is my first language, although I'm not Russian and was not born in Russia.

Not a Slav either.

[J.C.MacSwell]

37 minutes ago, MonDie said:

Let's withhold nukes from all unilingual societies.

I learned a little Spanish in highschool, which I never used. 😕

Bilingualism is linked to "cognitive flexibility", and "verbal intelligence" is inversely related to prejudice.

I'll put you down for a couple of nukes then. How big is your backyard?

Edited April 12, 2022 by J.C.MacSwell

[MigL]

I speak English, Italian, French, and can understand some Spanish ...

Can I get some SLBM with MIRV nuclear warheads, and a submarine to carry them. Sometimes you need deterrence with your neighbors.

I use my backyard for barbeques, and ICBMs would just get in the way.

Edited April 12, 2022 by MigL

[LaurieAG]

7 hours ago, beecee said:

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I am absolutely flabbergasted how some can twist facts to suit any particular sickening agenda they wish! 1+ To repeat myself again, the best that can happen is that some Russian citizen take this war criminal out, (Putin)  by whatever means at their disposal. 1-

That's a zero sum game.

[beecee]

37 minutes ago, LaurieAG said:

That's a zero sum game.

Why would you object to taking out a maniac, that may have/could have potentially started a nuclear war? The only other alternative is for him to do the right thing as Hitler finally did.

[MSC]

9 hours ago, beecee said:

Why would you object to taking out a maniac, that may have/could have potentially started a nuclear war? The only other alternative is for him to do the right thing as Hitler finally did.

I don't think it's that anybody is objecting to this happening. I also want it to happen, but you know as well as I that the power vacuum that would be left could be filled with a person/persons far worse than Putin. Or better! It can go either way. 

There is also the fear of what sort of groups or individuals could get their hands on Russian Nukes during the infighting. There are already enough Broken Arrows out there somewhere. We don't need more. 

I think to be a realist, we have to accept that the uncertainty after Putin is gone, is a dangerous situation unto itself and more unpredictable than Putin. Still worth the risk imo but making Putin disappear is just 1 step in a new Russian Revolution. Undoing the beliefs from Russian propaganda upon the majority of Russian citizens is also a very difficult task. As it stands, if Putin were to disappear today, whomever steps in may not wish to cease hostilities in the Ukraine. 

[TheVat]

BTW, a question: are Ukrainian and Russian best described as dialects or as two distinct languages?  I know a tiny bit of Russian and will hear a Ukrainian say something that I recognize and which sounds pretty much like Russian.  Ne znayu...