The Novak Djokovic Debacle:

[beecee]

Novak Djokovic is a Serbian tennis player who some regard as the greatest of all time. He has won all of the "Grand Slam"titles, the US, Wimbledon, French and Australian Open, 20 titles in all.

He is rightly and understandably seen as a cult hero in his home country of Serbia.

He also in recent times, during this pandemic, expressed his opposition to vaccinations in many arenas, contracted covid19 and disregarded isolation and travel in the days following his positive reading, and most recently applied to Australian Immigration for a visa for the Australian Open next week, and put forward some manufactured dispensation with regards to vaccinations.

While the present Australian government and Tennis Australia were less then forthright from the beginning, and failed to do the research needed they granted him his visa. The Minister involved then cancelled that visa and since then a court judge has granted him a stay of execution, which the government protested against, and that appeal was upheld. The full story is here.......

His wait has ended. The visa cancellation was rightly upheld by the court of appeal, and Novak will be unable to play and will be deported, and has been ordered to pay court costs. He may also as a result of the discrepencies on his aplication form, be banned from re-entry for three years.

No player is bigger then the game. No player is bigger then his chosen sport.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/video/2022/jan/11/victorian-premier-dan-andrews-on-djokovic-crisis-australian-open-bigger-than-one-person-video

Edited January 16, 2022 by beecee

[dimreepr]

4 hours ago, beecee said:

No player is bigger then the game. No player is bigger then his chosen sport.

And no player is a saint... 

[MigL]

I'm not aware of all the details, but I thought the judge granted the stay because the Australian government, and Tennis Australia, applied their Visa rules inequitably.
Famous people, whether tennis players, movie stars or politicians,  don't get to play by different rules when it come to infectuous diseases; fame does not protect you, or keep you from infecting others.

[beecee]

5 hours ago, dimreepr said:

And no player is a saint... 

??? What has that weird comment to do with the price of fish? 

 

4 hours ago, MigL said:

I'm not aware of all the details, but I thought the judge granted the stay because the Australian government, and Tennis Australia, applied their Visa rules inequitably.

Yep, the indecision by a wishy washy government and Tennis Australia created this mess from the beginning. From the get go, and considering his past stance and comments and actions on vaccinations, and his refusal to be vaccinated, he should have been disqualified from ever entering Australia.

4 hours ago, MigL said:

Famous people, whether tennis players, movie stars or politicians,  don't get to play by different rules when it come to infectuous diseases; fame does not protect you, or keep you from infecting others.

Bingo! and considering that Australia has gone through many lockdowns and restrictions on normal life to contain this pandemic, there would have been hell to pay if they had agreed to let him in. 88% of the Australian population are now fully vaxxed, while NSW is 95% and Victoria where the open is held, is 93%

Just as an aside, while Djokovic is certainly a great player, and while it is hard, if not impossible comparing players from differemt eras, nothing can compare with Australia's rocket Rod Laver, who won the grand slam first as an amateur, then again as a professional. But that's just my biased opinion! 😉

Edited January 16, 2022 by beecee

[Danijel Gorupec]

"He is Novak, Serbian, he won't cry, so I cry for him."

Was this his debacle, or a debacle for a man is to give up his principles?

[beecee]

38 minutes ago, Danijel Gorupec said:

"He is Novak, Serbian, he won't cry, so I cry for him."

Was this his debacle, or a debacle for a man is to give up his principles?

When his so called principles, could affect other,s then he should reconsider his position. The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few...or the one.

 

[StringJunky]

1 hour ago, Danijel Gorupec said:

"He is Novak, Serbian, he won't cry, so I cry for him."

Was this his debacle, or a debacle for a man is to give up his principles?

Selfishness more like. When people are suffering and dying, principles that harm them can take a hike. Some people live in cuckooland and have a strange sense of priority. It's just a game when all's said and done. It's not Rollerball!

Edited January 16, 2022 by StringJunky

[beecee]

16 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

Selfishness more like. When people are suffering and dying, principles that harm others can take a hike. Some people live in cuckooland and have a strange sense of priority.

I actually in some ways feel sorry for him, as this debacle was in the first instance, initiated by our dumb arse Prime Minister, and Tennis Australia, forever looking for an excuse to let the world's best player play. He should never have been granted any visa from the word go. .

He reportedly also contributed a decent sum of money to Australia's catastrophic bushfires last Summer. In many ways, he probably is a decent bloke, just a shame that he has been swayed by this idiotic, anti science, anti vaxx movement.

I understand the anguish some of his countryman feel at this time, but simply put, and as requirements state, you must be double vaccinated to enter Australia. His and his minders biggest mistake was the incorrect and mis-leading answers they gave on the forms.

[zapatos]

47 minutes ago, beecee said:

The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few...or the one.

The mantra of the many...

[iNow]

2 hours ago, beecee said:

88% of the Australian population are now fully vaxxed, while NSW is 95% and Victoria where the open is held, is 93%

I don’t mean to brag or anything, but in the US our vaccination rate is all the way up to 63%, and in my current home state of Iowa we’re doing even better with 59% of the population fully vaxxed. I know you’re jealous though and hate us for our free-dumbs. 

I return you now to your tennis tournament travails. 

[beecee]

One of the most defining moments in this whole sorry affair, was that previously Djokovic was never seen wearing a mask, until.....until that final act when his visa was cancelled, and he is seen wearing a mask, being taken to detention by  Immigration officials 

3 minutes ago, iNow said:

I don’t mean to brag or anything, but in the US our vaccination rate is all the way up to 63%, and in my current home state of Iowa we’re doing even better with 59% of the population fully vaxxed. I know you’re jealous though and hate us for our free-dumbs. 

I return you now to your tennis tournament travails. 

🤣

Edited January 16, 2022 by beecee

[MigL]

17 minutes ago, zapatos said:

1 hour ago, beecee said:

The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few...or the one.

The mantra of the many...

Or an unselfish Mr. Spock.

[zapatos]

10 minutes ago, iNow said:

I don’t mean to brag or anything, but in the US our vaccination rate is all the way up to 63%, and in my current home state of Iowa we’re doing even better with 59% of the population fully vaxxed. I know you’re jealous though and hate us for our free-dumbs. 

I return you now to your tennis tournament travails. 

We're doing pretty well. Compared to our fellow countries we are in the top 90% for vaccination rate.

[joigus]

Very much like wanting to participate in these forums but not abiding by the rules.

The rules are for everybody.

[mistermack]

Novac is an idiot, there's no doubt about that. You have to be stupid to fall for that anti-vax crap. 

But, he didn't do anything wrong, he applied for a visa and got it. The real idiots are in charge in Australia. Lions led by donkeys. It looks like they thought they could get some votes out of looking strong, but they've come out of it looking idiotic. 

By all means, if someone arrives at the country without a visa, then make a decision at the border. But if you issue a visa in advance, stick to it.

Why not put the cricketers in charge of the country ? I don't think they would have got it so wrong.  

Edited January 17, 2022 by mistermack

[beecee]

45 minutes ago, mistermack said:

Novac is an idiot, there's no doubt about that. You have to be stupid to fall for that anti-vax crap. 

But, he didn't do anything wrong, he applied for a visa and got it. The real idiots are in charge in Australia. Lions led by donkeys. It looks like they thought they could get some votes out of looking strong, but they've come out of it looking idiotic. 

By all means, if someone arrives at the country without a visa, then make a decision at the border. But if you issue a visa in advance, stick to it.

Why not put the cricketers in charge of the country ? I don't think they would have got it so wrong.  

Bingo! and as I virtually said.  Don't forget though, our present Prime Minister, Scott Morrison is just a rung or two above your former President...you know, the bloke that advised taking cleaning fluid or such for covid.

[mistermack]

53 minutes ago, beecee said:

Don't forget though, our present Prime Minister, Scott Morrison is just a rung or two above your former President

No, I'm a Brit, but our Prime Minister had been doing his own version of stupid. Not as bad as the US pussy grabber, but not great. 

I have to admit I don't like Djokovic, his mad stare and chest banging when he wins reminds me of the faces of the Serb soldiers in the bad old days. But that's my bad really, he's probably a nice guy. 

Edited January 17, 2022 by mistermack

[beecee]

1 hour ago, mistermack said:

No, I'm a Brit,

My apologies...they do both have silly hair do's though...

[mistermack]

Yeh but.......             maybe it's catching .............

 

 

[Ken Fabian]

What will probably be missed by those outside Australia (and by many within) was the Australian conservative government trying from day one to implicate a popular progressive State government, that they take a poke at at every possible opportunity. And there may have been questionable decisions at the State bureaucrat level but the deflections to Victoria's goverment looked politically gratuitous to me.

The issuing of visas is an Australian government responsibility. Even basic questions like "did you fill out the application yourself" (normally an absolute requirement) seemed to come back with the kinds of answers that lead to rejecting a visa. If you aren't a sports star. Along with the obvious "have you had the required vaccinations". State bureaucrats signed off on the medical exemption (questionable but on the basis of some immunity from having had covid) and the visa rules allowed that possibility but probably shouldn't where no attempts to get vaccinated have been or will be made.

[beecee]

1 hour ago, Ken Fabian said:

What will probably be missed by those outside Australia (and by many within) was the Australian conservative government trying from day one to implicate a popular progressive State government, that they take a poke at at every possible opportunity. And there may have been questionable decisions at the State bureaucrat level but the deflections to Victoria's goverment looked politically gratuitous to me.

Couldn't agree more. Daniel Andrews  during the Delta pandemic last year was by far the most impressive of all the Premiers, reporting in detail, every day at news conferences and taking action when necessary. I remember some of his confrontations with Credlin the Cretin, and ex Tony Abbott adviser now working for sky  news. So much so, there is a move to get him into Federal politics if Labor loses the next elections. He is PM Matterial. 

1 hour ago, Ken Fabian said:

The issuing of visas is an Australian government responsibility. 

Exactly always has been and always will be. 

Get vaccinated or stay home. (and I certainly don't see having had covid previously, as a way out...interesting to see what more Tennis Australia has to say) 

Edited January 17, 2022 by beecee

[John Cuthber]

From time to time people ask  why the US immigration forms ask you if you plan to over throw the government by force.

People laugh at this- after all- any actual revolutionary would simply lie about it.

The point of the question is that, if it tuns out that you were planning a coup, the government can throw you out of the country for providing misleading information on your visa application. That's it; no court needed- no appeal.

The thing that most people fail to recognise is that it's a general rule. If you get caught lying they kick you out.
It's one of the more sensible things the US govt does.

Most countries will do it, if they have the slightest reason not to want you in their territory.

And Djokovic did not fill in the paperwork correctly. 
What did he expect to happen?

 

I heard he intends to participate via Zoom.

[geordief]

3 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

From time to time people ask  why the US immigration forms ask you if you plan to over throw the government by force.

People laugh at this- after all- any actual revolutionary would simply lie about it.

The point of the question is that, if it tuns out that you were planning a coup, the government can throw you out of the country for providing misleading information on your visa application. That's it; no court needed- no appeal.

The thing that most people fail to recognise is that it's a general rule. If you get caught lying they kick you out.
It's one of the more sensible things the US govt does.

Most countries will do it, if they have the slightest reason not to want you in their territory.

And Djokovic did not fill in the paperwork correctly. 
What did he expect to happen?

 

I heard he intends to participate via Zoom.

I was kicked out of Canada  (at the  US border)for admitting I had taken cannabis in the past .

 

Think there was  a form ,but this was a very long time in the past....

 

Actually  this happened quite a few times in different  countries for different  reasons and I always felt no real grievance as I didn't feel entitled to enter(mind you I was very surprised with the  Canada incident as I am a UK citizen  but learned a lesson then that it was not a partly owned subsidiary of Blighty)

[beecee]

18 hours ago, beecee said:

My apologies...they do both have silly hair do's though...

Not quite as sillier a hair do as the two above, but an illustration of what our Prime Minister is about. The photo was at some pentescostal service he attends every Sunday, affiliated with the Australian Christian Churches, the Australian branch of the Assemblies of God.

[Arete]

Being an Australian but living abroad I've been loosely following and enjoying the bureaucratic bungling of the whole issue by Scotty from Marketing and his administration. It has been a very publicly embarrassing debacle, which given my general sentiments towards the Liberals, is quite the popcorn feast. 

I do keep reading about Djokovic sticking by his principles/being principled, and thus being of strong moral fiber... but if you undergo some kind of action to publicly take a stand on a given issue, then attempt to subvert or otherwise avoid the consequences, you're just a garden variety hypocrite. If this really was the hill he wanted to die on, he should have boycotted the Australian Open in the first place. 

I also have to admit I have a particularly malevolent attitude towards public figures who use their position of privilege to flout and undermine public health efforts in the midst of a pandemic. You may as well be supplying arms to terrorists or dumping oil in the arctic and bragging about it. 

Edited January 18, 2022 by Arete