Interspecies interactions

[Genady]

I've observed this little arrow crab "asking" the octopus to move away from the crevice behind it which was the crab's place. Or, it was how this interaction looked to me.

[dimreepr]

How can you tell, if you don't speak crab?

[Peterkin]

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

How can you tell, if you don't speak crab?

The same way you know the blackbirds are telling you to stay away from their nesting site, or the dog tells the cat to get off his bed or a goat tells a horse to come and play: body language. Needs, wants and feelings are common to all life on Earth. The closer two species are in brain complexity, lifestyle and habitat, the more they can understand of one another's expressions.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Peterkin

[Genady]

54 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

The same way you know the blackbirds are telling you to stay away from their nesting site, or the dog tells the cat to get off his bed or a goat tells a horse to come and play: body language. Needs, wants and feelings are common to all life on Earth. The closer two species are in brain complexity, lifestyle and habitat, the more they can understand of one another's expressions.

All this, plus... There were other arrow crabs in that crevice... This crab was marching straight toward it until he got to the octopus... He even visibly pushed on the octopus sidewise...

[Peterkin]

13 minutes ago, Genady said:

He even visibly pushed on the octopus sidewise...

Not to much effect, I'd wager, unless the octopus were obliging. I have to suppose the crab had reason, through previous interactions, to expect co-operation.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Peterkin

[MigL]

3 hours ago, dimreepr said:

How can you tell, if you don't speak crab?

Absolutely right.
I've never seen Genady get 'crabby'.

[Genady]

27 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

Not to much effect, I'd wager, unless the octopus were obliging. I have to suppose the crab had reason, through previous interactions, to expect co-operation.

Yes, no effect whatsoever. I don't think crab expected a mechanical effect either. Rather to make his request clear to the octopus. It might've been a game on the octopus' side.

[Peterkin]

30 minutes ago, Genady said:

Rather to make his request clear to the octopus.

That's what I assumed. A tiny animal will generally avoid provoking a big animal, unless it's quite sure that big animal has no culinary or hostile inclinations toward the tiny animal. Once amicable or at least laissez-faire relations are established, communication and some degree of accommodation can take place.

35 minutes ago, Genady said:

It might've been a game on the octopus' side.

I wouldn't put it past him. But i don't suppose the crab is intelligent enough to get that.

 

[Genady]

7 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

I wouldn't put it past him. But i don't suppose the crab is intelligent enough to get that.

Me too. It's unfortunate that I couldn't stay and wait for the end of this interaction.

[Peterkin]

Would have been fun to film!

If we go softly about the world, we are often treated to touching, tragic, amusing, enlightening scenes. I watch the birds on my feeders now, the way I used to watch children in the schoolyard - as an interested observer, not as a predator.

[beecee]

3 hours ago, Peterkin said:

That's what I assumed. A tiny animal will generally avoid provoking a big animal, unless it's quite sure that big animal has no culinary or hostile inclinations toward the tiny animal. Once amicable or at least laissez-faire relations are established, communication and some degree of accommodation can take place.

"Generally" being the operative word. When my old Rotty mate was alive, I was taking him for a walk one morning, when this little Shitzu terrier, came runnning out at him, madly barking and running in and out between my Rottweilers legs. My Rotty just stood there with this inquisitive look on his face, until the woman that owned the shitzu hearing the commotion, rushed out and grabbed her dog. I explained there was nothing much too worry about as my Rotty had already had breakfast. 😊

3 hours ago, Peterkin said:

If we go softly about the world, we are often treated to touching, tragic, amusing, enlightening scenes. I watch the birds on my feeders now, the way I used to watch children in the schoolyard - as an interested observer, not as a predator.

We presently have a dove that we (the Mrs and I) have been watching building a nest in one of our trees. It now has a little egg in it...

My concern is the number of crows around our area.

Edited January 29, 2022 by beecee

[StringJunky]

6 minutes ago, beecee said:

My concern is the number of crows around our area.

A crow's got to eat...  They do pick up the dead stuff as well and keep our roads and paths clean of dead animals.

[Peterkin]

11 minutes ago, beecee said:

"Generally" being the operative word.

I mean real-world animals, not domestic ones. Yes, small dogs can be very stupid.

[beecee]

1 minute ago, StringJunky said:

A crow's got to eat...  They do pick up the dead stuff as well and keep our roads and paths clean of dead animals.

No problem with that, but the Mrs has grown an attachement to this little dove sitting all day on its egg....so far, so good. We are also keeping a good distance and observing it with some binos.

[Peterkin]

14 minutes ago, beecee said:

My concern is the number of crows around our area.

Also rats, snakes, cats, possums  and raccoons. It's a perilous life out there!

[beecee]

6 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

Also rats, snakes, cats, possums  and raccoons. It's a perilous life out there!

No racoons here! 😉

11 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

 Yes, small dogs can be very stupid.

I have two dogs now, among the most intelligent of breeds, Mini Dachsunds, and while being a fearless breed, to the point of foolhardy, are not overly concerned when we meet up with other dogs, large or small, unlike some of the terrier breeds, which in many cases, are automatically aggressive to larger breeds. My parents bred mini Dachy's.

[Peterkin]

1 hour ago, beecee said:

I have two dogs now, among the most intelligent of breeds,

Intelligence is no immunity against stupid assumptions. Pet dogs, who have never lived in a pack, hunted for survival or had territorial rivals, don't have the same understanding of predator etiquette that coyotes or wolves have. Their residual instincts (like those of humans) are displaced and confused by civilization; can drive them to behaviour that would have been appropriate in a pack hierarchy (most of our pets are ranked higher in our pack than their capabilities would earn in the wild, so they tend to be overconfident), or defence of a perimeter they've marked (even though their territory overlaps those of a hundred dogs they've never even met, let alone matched up against.)  

1 hour ago, beecee said:

No racoons here!

but a helluva a lot mo snakes!

I used to watch Bondi Vet at lunch sometimes, when we had regular tv. 

[beecee]

19 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

 but a helluva a lot mo snakes!

I used to watch Bondi Vet at lunch sometimes, when we had regular tv. 

While Australia does have at least two or possibly three of the most venomous snakes in the world, their numbers are grossly over-estimated. In my time I have only ever seen three in the bush...same with spiders...we really aint over run with them.

[Peterkin]

Good to know! I may visit, after all....

what we used to say when the gods stepped on our plans:

when this mess is over.

[beecee]

3 hours ago, Peterkin said:

  but a helluva a lot mo snakes!

I used to watch Bondi Vet at lunch sometimes, when we had regular tv. 

 

40 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

Good to know! I may visit, after all....

what we used to say when the gods stepped on our plans:

when this mess is over.

Look us up, will but you a VB, take you to the greatest game of all, and  throw a shrimp on the barbie for you. 

[Peterkin]

when I, and everyone else, had our fift5h of sixth vaccination.... (booked our third in march.)

[beecee]

3 hours ago, beecee said:

While Australia does have at least two or possibly three of the most venomous snakes in the world, their numbers are grossly over-estimated. In my time I have only ever seen three in the bush...same with spiders...we really aint over run with them.

Even though we have the most deadly species in the world, it is unlikely that you will be harmed by them, especially as they only bite humans in self-defence. I remember many years ago bushwalking and we came across a red bellied black snake curled up on the trail. We just all quietly walked around it, and while it was certainly observing us, it never made a move.

The biggest danger is the stone fish and/or box jelly fish found up near the Great Barrier Reef, certainly no where near Sydney's many surfing beaches, where the occasional shark sighting, and even less occasional attack. Considering the numbers of people that go to our beaches on a typical weekend, and with now, drones in the sky, attacks are rare also.

[Genady]

This manta ray with two remoras attached passed right over my head at a shallow water:

Then it turned around and went straight back toward me:

It was circling around me and going away and back, even touching me with its wing, for several minutes. 

 

[Peterkin]

1 hour ago, Genady said:

was circling around me and going away and back, even touching me with its wing, for several minutes. 

Probably trying to figure out your intentions. Makes me wonder....

She  must have seen human divers before, so she's got you classified by configuration and motion. She can't have met any predatory humans before, or she'd be dead, so you're classified as benign (or provisionally benign) as to type. One would expect, in that case, to be ignored.

So this one was checking you out particularly, as an individual. Gathering detailed information on the type? Making contact? Making a request?  

.... or investigating your chakras/aura/vibes with a sensory capability we don't know about? 

Edited January 30, 2022 by Peterkin

[beecee]

3 hours ago, Genady said:

This manta ray with two remoras attached passed right over my head at a shallow water:

Then it turned around and went straight back toward me:

It was circling around me and going away and back, even touching me with its wing, for several minutes. 

Wow! What an incredible experience!