The COVID-19 vaccine and new emerging strains...does each new strain not call for a new vaccine?

[Adelbert_Einstein]

Going by current trends in the COVID-19 crisis, it appears that every few months, a new strain emerges. Why this is so I don't know, but if trends are to be believed, then every so often, a new strain of COVID-19 emerges. First the delta strain, now the omnicron strain. It's just a matter of time before the moronic strain emerges. 

So every time a new strain emerges, will we need a new vaccine to deal with each emerging new strain? 

Surely theres something about the omnicron strain that the delta strain didnt have, and something about the delta strain that the original corona strain didnt have. 

And the vaccines were created to counter the original corona strain, so oughtnt we create new vaccines to handle new strains?

"Strenous" work, no doubt, but with the human race at stake....

Edited February 16, 2022 by Adelbert_Einstein

[iNow]

43 minutes ago, Adelbert_Einstein said:

it appears that every few months, a new strain emerges. Why this is so I don't know

Try studying evolution. No conspiracy needed. 

[Adelbert_Einstein]

28 minutes ago, iNow said:

Try studying evolution. No conspiracy needed. 

ah, evolution, of course. I cant think why I didnt figure that out lol

[iNow]

1 hour ago, Adelbert_Einstein said:

It's just a matter of time before the moronic strain emerges. 

Too late:

 

8 minutes ago, Adelbert_Einstein said:

ah, evolution, of course. I cant think why I didnt figure that out lol

 

[Ken Fabian]

Small differences between virus strains mean vaccines for one strain can still improve resistance against other strains. Where they don't then altering existing vaccines or creating new ones becomes necessary. WHO says -

Quote

The COVID-19 vaccines that are currently in development or have been approved are expected to provide at least some protection against new virus variants because these vaccines elicit a broad immune response involving a range of antibodies and cells. Therefore, changes or mutations in the virus should not make vaccines completely ineffective. In the event that any of these vaccines prove to be less effective against one or more variants, it will be possible to change the composition of the vaccines to protect against these variants.

 

[swansont]

13 hours ago, Adelbert_Einstein said:

omnicron

omicron

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/dec/15/why-do-so-many-people-struggle-to-say-omicron

[John Cuthber]

13 hours ago, Adelbert_Einstein said:

so oughtnt we create new vaccines to handle new strains?

They are doing
https://www.pharmacytimes.com/view/details-of-pfizer-s-investigation-into-an-omicron-specific-vaccine-for-adults-aged-18-to-55

But, in the meantime, the current vaccines are better than nothing.

[iNow]

3 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

But, in the meantime, the current vaccines are better than nothing.

Much better

 

[PhilGeis]

Covid has a high mutation rate - up to 10X greater than the already high rate of RNA viruses in general.

Mutation shows the limitation of current mRNA based vaccine technology - so narrowly focused, variants move out of efficacy range.   Tho' justified in part on the rapidity of development and warranted as you say by variant generation, it still takes too long to develop and administer.  Appears there is no attempt to develop.

[iNow]

2 hours ago, PhilGeis said:

Appears there is no attempt to develop.

Maybe you missed the item John posted 2 hours ago, two posts before this comment you've made here?

[CharonY]

2 hours ago, PhilGeis said:

Covid has a high mutation rate - up to 10X greater than the already high rate of RNA viruses in general.

Do you have a reference for this? I am a bit surprised as most calculations on mutation rates at the replication level are much lower for SARS-CoV-2. Or are you referring to the likelihood of new variants. That is dependent on the number of active infections but also the overall fitness landscape (e.g. effects of purifying selection). 

[John Cuthber]

 

3 hours ago, PhilGeis said:

Mutation shows the limitation of current mRNA based vaccine technology - so narrowly focused, variants move out of efficacy range. 

Two years from sequencing and a year after launch, the vaccine is still doing a fairly good job.

[PhilGeis]

6 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

 

Two years from sequencing and a year after launch, the vaccine is still doing a fairly good job.

The vaccine vs omicron is apparently useless as a "vaccine".  Reportedly is associated with better outcome in morbidity and mortality

Edited February 17, 2022 by PhilGeis

[CharonY]

7 minutes ago, PhilGeis said:

The vaccine is useless as a "vaccine".  It reportedly is associated with better outcome in morbidity and mortality

Which means they allow vaccinated individuals to mount an effective immune response, which in turn is the function of a vaccine...?

[PhilGeis]

12 hours ago, CharonY said:

Which means they allow vaccinated individuals to mount an effective immune response, which in turn is the function of a vaccine...?

The stated purpose and function of this vaccine and its controversial mandates is to address the pandemic.  

No - it does no mean effective immunity.  There is an association with reduced morbidity and mortality.  Coincidence is not cause and assuming "immunity" is not justified.  Numbers are not normalized

Edited February 18, 2022 by PhilGeis

[exchemist]

13 minutes ago, PhilGeis said:

The stated purpose and function of this vaccine and its controversial mandates is to address the pandemic.  

No - it does no mean effective immunity.  There is an association with reduced morbidity and mortality.  Coincidence is not cause and assuming "immunity" is not justified.  Numbers are not normalized

I'm not what sources you are relying on but in the UK here seems to be a fair amount of evidence that the vaccines work pretty well at reducing the severity of infection with the Omicron variant. There is a paper here on it: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/monitoring-reports-of-the-effectiveness-of-covid-19-vaccination

And here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1046479/S1479_Imperial_Severity.pdf

 

 

Edited February 18, 2022 by exchemist

[CharonY]

Also mechanistically it does not make sense. Vaccines provide robust immune responses including neutralizing antibody formation (https://doi.org/10.1038/s41586-021-03653-6). And the mortality numbers have been adjusted in many reports and studies by age and comorbidity, yielding uniformly protective results (though with a drop over time, especially in the elderly). 

[swansont]

5 hours ago, PhilGeis said:

The stated purpose and function of this vaccine and its controversial mandates is to address the pandemic.  

!

Moderator Note

I don't think the vaccine itself is issuing any mandates so let's not delve into politics

 

[John Cuthber]

18 hours ago, PhilGeis said:

The vaccine vs omicron is apparently useless as a "vaccine". 

To whom is this apparent?

[CharonY]

2 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

To whom is this apparent?

It is one of the weird arguments I started to keep hearing recently, and I think it is based on a misconception of what a vaccine does.

Fundamentally, it is a stimulant of the immune system, helping us to fight off an incoming infection. It is not an one or all situation, but mostly a vaccine is considered effective if the overall outcome is improved compared to an unvaccinated cohort.

I think part of it is how immune is being used, and the idea that being resistant against infections should equate not being able to be infected. It does not help that the language is a bit loose in that regard. Herd immunity, for example refers to stopping spread, but the situation can also dependent on non-immune system related measures. I.e. by reducing the effective reproduction number of the disease (e.g. by reducing contact time between individuals).

[PhilGeis]

On 2/18/2022 at 6:48 AM, exchemist said:

I'm not what sources you are relying on but in the UK here seems to be a fair amount of evidence that the vaccines work pretty well at reducing the severity of infection with the Omicron variant. There is a paper here on it: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/monitoring-reports-of-the-effectiveness-of-covid-19-vaccination

And here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1046479/S1479_Imperial_Severity.pdf

 

 

My comments addressed omicron strain.

[exchemist]

25 minutes ago, PhilGeis said:

My comments addressed omicron strain.

Yes, that's why I selected these links. They also relate to Omicron (the first link has several documents, only one of which is relevant, I think).