Spooky experiences

[Peterkin]

Maybe not everybody has them, but most of the people I've known did.

At one time, sometimes or many times, we have a moment .... we hear something, see something, feel something, remember something.... otherworldly. 

A dead relative whispers a warning. A phantom pet hops up on the bed and curls up behind your knees. The grass calls your name. The stars threaten to suck you up into the sky. You wake up in the middle of the night and know that someone has died. You have an unaccountable urge to get in touch with with someone, because they need your help.

When something weird like that happens,

do you formulate a rational explanation?

Do you ignore it?

Do you look up research on such occurrences?

Do you talk to somebody about it?

Do you accept it as paranormal?  

[joigus]

I'm not an expert on this, but...

I always try to formulate a rational explanation. When we are under stress, or the sensorial signals are somewhat scrambled, or both, we tend to try and make sense of what's going on. There's an ongoing dialogue between the different parts of our limbic system. In that dialogue the signals are processed in such a way that the salient information from the relational cortex --I'm kinda assuming here-- tends to be forced to fit in a dictionary of familiar words and concepts.

Pareidolia may be the word?

[Genady]

3 hours ago, Peterkin said:

When something weird like that happens,

do you formulate a rational explanation? - no, because there are many rational explanations possible

Do you ignore it? - no, I do not

Do you look up research on such occurrences? - not anymore

Do you talk to somebody about it? - yes, sometimes

Do you accept it as paranormal? - no, because I don't know what it means.

3 hours ago, Peterkin said:

At one time, sometimes or many times, we have a moment .... we hear something, see something, feel something, remember something.... otherworldly. 

A dead relative whispers a warning. A phantom pet hops up on the bed and curls up behind your knees. The grass calls your name. The stars threaten to suck you up into the sky. You wake up in the middle of the night and know that someone has died. You have an unaccountable urge to get in touch with with someone, because they need your help.

When all these and more of this kind occur most of the time, it's a terrible medical condition. I happened to have a very personal experience of this with my close family. Very tragic. She flew more than 3000 miles once to warn me personally of a danger, because all other means of communication were already affected...

Edited February 19, 2022 by Genady

[Peterkin]

For some people, the supernatural becomes a way of relating to the world all the time.

If they're talking to saints or the Virgin Mary, they're considered pious. That's the safe alternative.

If they're talking to an invisible friend, they're considered mentally ill; if they're talking to a spirit guide, they're considered charlatans. Those are the alternatives that people worry about and why they might be reluctant to mention their peculiar experiences. 

We can't tell how normal and prevalent such experiences are, because people who have them don't report them, and lots of people who do report are lying.

[iNow]

7 hours ago, Peterkin said:

When something weird like that happens,

do you formulate a rational explanation?

No, because I already have one. It’s the executive and narrative creation portions of our brain attempting to make sense of ambiguous stimuli from multiple different sources, and seeking a way to align novel experiences with previously experienced past ones.

Like a dream, our description of the experience need not make rational sense as an explanation. The explanation need only be comforting and even vaguely soothing.

For many, ephemeral ideas of spirituality bring that comfort. For me, having a basic understanding of neurobiology and neurochemistry offers that comfort. Either way, the view we each take of the experience itself is driven by our own innate desire for comfort. 

Edited February 19, 2022 by iNow

[Peterkin]

4 minutes ago, iNow said:

the view we each take of the experience itself is driven by our own innate desire for comfort. 

Interesting perspective. Thanks.

[TheVat]

Once I was a passenger in a car at night and noticed an orange glowing ovoid object zooming along on a parallel path to the car keeping pace with us.  Looking around the interior of the car, I realized two things.  One, i had been dozing and was not fully alert.  Two, the oval corresponded to a light on the instrument panel which was reflected off the side window at just the angle to create the illusion.  

Tired brains often stumble at processing sensory data.  

That said, I plan to drive near Marfa the next time I'm in West Texas and try to see the famed mystery lights. (Marfa also has a cool art museum)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marfa_lights

[Peterkin]

I've seen some odd things on highways at night - most of them explained by light, shadow and perspective, all of which change and interact as a vehicle speeds along.

But there are different classes of experience, of which optical delusion is only one.

I knew a very practical, sober-minded nurse who announced the deaths of three of her relatives (within the five or six years of our acquaintance) weeks before a letter from the old country informed her of those deaths. She said, quite matter-of-factly: "They visit me, just to say goodbye. So do some of my patients." I don't know whether she found that comforting or not. I thought it was spooky. When I told my mother about it, she said she'd dreamed of the deaths both her parents - 40 years apart, in distant places, without warning) and an older sister on the night of their deaths. (Everyone in her family seemed to die at night - she did, too.)    

[zapatos]

Maybe I'm somewhat unusual but I don't think I've ever had a spooky experience. No strange thoughts, visions, feelings. 

[beecee]

I once saw a UFO  about 30 years ago.  It was a bright blue disk, about the same apparent size of the full Moon overhead, and was traveeling along the horizon. It was around 2200hrs and had me really excited, ( as opposed to feeling spooky) and I couldn't sleep that night. I awoke next morning, put on the telly for the news, went an bought the morning paper, specifically to see if there were any reports about this mysterious object I saw. I shrugged my shoulders and put it down to probably some sort of atmospheric anomaly, and accepted without too much more concern, that no, we weren't being invaded. 😜

There were times when I was about 8 years old, and had just seen the movie, The Thing: from another world, which did have me having nightmares for months afterwards and literally scared the living daylights out of me.

No other moments that I recall where I have experienced anything too unworldly, other then a strange dream one night about being chased by a hippo across the Sydney harbor bridge! 😅

4 hours ago, iNow said:

For me, having a basic understanding of neurobiology and neurochemistry offers that comfort. Either way, the view we each take of the experience itself is driven by our own innate desire for comfort. 

While my understanding of neurology is zilch, I simply believe that sometimes the brain plays tricks on you, and certainly as I have mentioned in one or two other threads, am of the opinion, that many people desire and work towards that warm comfy inner glow...particularly in avoiding the finality of death.

Edited February 19, 2022 by beecee

[Peterkin]

I've also noticed a change in the attitude of my own cohort. When I was in my teens, there was a surge of interest in the paranormal, supernatural, unexplained and spiritual phenomena. Ouija boards, automatic writing, pendulum, Tarot, I Ching, astrology -  dream interpretation, which morphed in young adulthood into hypnotism, various fringe psychotherapies, Eastern mysticism, holistic medicine... and then a gradual hardening of sciences, which leads rejection of the exotic and fanciful and finally, overt scorn of whatever isn't "objective" enough.

At 15-25, I as far more open to things that do not yield to a facile physical explanation; at 60, I was closed and shuttered. Now, I'm not as sure of what I know and what I can know as I was 15 years ago.    

11 minutes ago, beecee said:

am of the opinion, that many people desire and work towards that warm comfy inner glow...particularly in avoiding the finality of death.

Maybe, but I understand that an encounter with a haunt or poltergeist is not a bit comforting for the people who have that experience. 

[naitche]

On 2/19/2022 at 7:00 PM, Peterkin said:

 

do you formulate a rational explanation?

First thing I try.

On 2/19/2022 at 7:00 PM, Peterkin said:

Do you ignore it?

More often impossible, but some times I must.

On 2/19/2022 at 7:00 PM, Peterkin said:

Do you look up research on such occurrences?

I used to, little available of any use. Only served to show me nobody knew and if they did, we all would. I did look into joining Paranormal research, but after speaking with the guy running it, I ran another way. E

How  the same thing is experienced between people varies so much I think visual or auditory effects could be our own additions to process information, A  self defense mechanism to accept that something happened.

On 2/19/2022 at 7:00 PM, Peterkin said:

Do you talk to somebody about it?

Not usually. Some times. Few I would feel comfortable talking with about such things and fewer I feel who can with out going all weird on me and 'Spiritual" I don't mean to sound derogatory, but I think most  follow that path implicitly, seems too much like faith.

On 2/19/2022 at 7:00 PM, Peterkin said:

Do you accept it as paranormal?  

No, except as a loose classification of as yet unexplained phenomena.

Some thing enables them.

Edited May 1, 2022 by naitche

[Peterkin]

That's more or less my take. Something happens, but we don't know what caused it or how to interpret it. Some people claim to know all about the supernatural, the paranormal, the unexplained - but they're unconvincing, their motives suspect. Others claim absolute certainty regarding the scientific psychological causes.  I have a problem with that, because I'm quite sure there is still a great deal that nobody knows about how brains and minds work; so, to me this certainty is as suspect as the other: though it may not have sinister motives, scientific presumption has had some pretty bad outcomes.

So, mostly, people just don't talk about it. I suppose that's okay; nothing much will be changed by these isolated subjective experiences. How well the people who experience them fare depends - or seems to depend - on how much confidence they have in their own judgment.   

[naitche]

8 hours ago, Peterkin said:

That's more or less my take. Something happens, but we don't know what caused it or how to interpret it. Some people claim to know all about the supernatural, the paranormal, the unexplained - but they're unconvincing, their motives suspect.

With  easy profit from the gullible as their earnings.

8 hours ago, Peterkin said:

 

Others claim absolute certainty regarding the scientific psychological causes.  I have a problem with that, because I'm quite sure there is still a great deal that nobody knows about how brains and minds work; so, to me this certainty is as suspect as the other: though it may not have sinister motives, scientific presumption has had some pretty bad outcomes.

Yes. And some times these explanations just don't work, as you mentioned earlier with physical phenomena experienced by multiple people.

8 hours ago, Peterkin said:

So, mostly, people just don't talk about it. I suppose that's okay; nothing much will be changed by these isolated subjective experiences. How well the people who experience them fare depends - or seems to depend - on how much confidence they have in their own judgment.   

I think it must lead to delusion with sad consequences for any of us,  loosing  confidence to assess and judge our own reality..

Edited May 1, 2022 by naitche

[Phi for All]

I've told this here before, but I had an experience when I was about 8-10 years old. I'd gone to bed, and woke up when I heard something tapping. My window was open, and my brain identified the sound as a woman in heels walking up to our front door. I waited for the footsteps to stop and the doorbell to ring, but they just kept clicking, as if she was pacing beneath my window. I got out of bed and pulled the curtain back to look down and it stopped, and there was nobody there. I went back to bed, and a few minutes later it started up again. Lather, rinse, repeat a few times, exactly the same way. I couldn't figure it out. 

Eventually I gave up on the idea of it being someone outside, and I think that made me listen more closely. I saw that the wind from my open window was moving the curtains, which made the plastic curtain pull knock against the wall. When I pulled the curtains aside to look down, it moved the plastic pull away from the wall and stopped the clicking. 

I do remember how convinced I was at the time that the sound was a woman walking in heels on a concrete sidewalk, but when I figured out what it really was, it didn't sound anywhere close. It sounded exactly like a curtain pull clicking against the wall.

[StringJunky]

25 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

I've told this here before, but I had an experience when I was about 8-10 years old. I'd gone to bed, and woke up when I heard something tapping. My window was open, and my brain identified the sound as a woman in heels walking up to our front door. I waited for the footsteps to stop and the doorbell to ring, but they just kept clicking, as if she was pacing beneath my window. I got out of bed and pulled the curtain back to look down and it stopped, and there was nobody there. I went back to bed, and a few minutes later it started up again. Lather, rinse, repeat a few times, exactly the same way. I couldn't figure it out. 

Eventually I gave up on the idea of it being someone outside, and I think that made me listen more closely. I saw that the wind from my open window was moving the curtains, which made the plastic curtain pull knock against the wall. When I pulled the curtains aside to look down, it moved the plastic pull away from the wall and stopped the clicking. 

I do remember how convinced I was at the time that the sound was a woman walking in heels on a concrete sidewalk, but when I figured out what it really was, it didn't sound anywhere close. It sounded exactly like a curtain pull clicking against the wall.

Auditory pareidolia. Being pretty deaf, I experience it several times a day, it's just my brain trying to deal with a poor signal in my case.

Edited May 1, 2022 by StringJunky

[Phi for All]

31 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

Auditory pareidolia. Being pretty deaf, I experience it several times a day, it's just my brain trying to deal with a poor signal in my case.

Exactly. So I'm prone to assuming there's a natural explanation for spooky experiences. I've always thought it would be awesome to discover that some things folks consider supernatural (ESP, telekinesis, precognition, etc) turn out to have a scientific basis, but I find myself the most skeptical when someone claims to have evidence of such. I'm the same way with aliens from another planet; I know there could be other intelligent creatures in our galaxy, but I reject most of what makes some folks think we're being visited currently.

[StringJunky]

10 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

Exactly. So I'm prone to assuming there's a natural explanation for spooky experiences. I've always thought it would be awesome to discover that some things folks consider supernatural (ESP, telekinesis, precognition, etc) turn out to have a scientific basis, but I find myself the most skeptical when someone claims to have evidence of such. I'm the same way with aliens from another planet; I know there could be other intelligent creatures in our galaxy, but I reject most of what makes some folks think we're being visited currently.

Yes, until superluminal  travel is a thing, even if only on paper, visiting aliens are pie in the sky for me. I am pretty confident life exists alsewhere, but just not in travelling distance. I have had  what I think was a schizophrenia-like  vocal hallucination telling me to "Have courage", which was just the strangest experience, but I'd been mostly awake for a week or so and was coming down off stimulants. I couldn't moan anyway, the voice was benevolent. My rationale eventually told me  it was 'subconcious me' telling myself something, but somebody less insightful and self aware could well think a spirit was speaking to them.

Edited May 1, 2022 by StringJunky

[Peterkin]

1 hour ago, Phi for All said:

I do remember how convinced I was at the time that the sound was a woman walking in heels on a concrete sidewalk, but when I figured out what it really was, it didn't sound anywhere close. It sounded exactly like a curtain pull clicking against the wall.

It's always a good idea to observe and experiment - where possible and safe to do so. Sometimes spooky things are ordinary things. But it is by far better to discover it for yourself, rather than to be told. Often, adults give facile explanations (weather balloon explanations) too early, before their child is ready to lose faith in them. dependent children must believe in their parents without proof - because sometimes the proof (yes, gas does explode) is too late to be do any good, and sometimes it's misconstrued by uninformed minds.

If an adult said: it's only branch tapping on your window and there is no tree outside your bedroom, you know the adult is lying. At ten, it's just part of the process of disillusionment and independence; at four, it could set up a cycle of nightmares and interrupted sleep. So, if a child complains of spooky goings-on, it's better to conduct a real investigation, rather than perfunctory glance around, and "It was just the house settling. Go to sleep." (He can't, now. The house can't trusted!)    

1 hour ago, StringJunky said:

Being pretty deaf, I experience it several times a day, it's just my brain trying to deal with a poor signal in my case.

I've had noise in my ears for years, from chemotherapy. I refer to it as the crickets, but if I listen, especially late in the day, when I'm tired, it can be anything from five-alarm fire to the Vienna boys' choir. Sometimes I can direct a little, like lucid dreaming. But I can tell when a noise is not part of my internal orchestra.    

57 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

I've always thought it would be awesome to discover that some things folks consider supernatural (ESP, telekinesis, precognition, etc) turn out to have a scientific basis,

Not for want to trying! So far, the attempts have pretty much a foundered. It's possible the approach is wrong, as we have discovered with some physical phenomena. I don't see telekinesis as a contender - the energy requirement is prohibitive. Some form of ESP, why not?

1 hour ago, Phi for All said:

I know there could be other intelligent creatures in our galaxy, but I reject most of what makes some folks think we're being visited currently.

I find it hard to imagine an entire galaxy of this size containing one intelligent life form. Odds would seem me to favour none or many.  If any of them are aware of us (I count it possible, unlikely) I don't think they have made any approach. The alien contacts people claim seem to me implausible, given the necessary qualifications. kind of like God: if he's like this, why would he do that?  Unfortunately, in this case, the distances are prohibitive.

[Phi for All]

3 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

Not for want to trying! So far, the attempts have pretty much a foundered. It's possible the approach is wrong, as we have discovered with some physical phenomena. I don't see telekinesis as a contender - the energy requirement is prohibitive. Some form of ESP, why not?

Evolution, mostly. Such an ability would have spread in the population over time, at least to an extent where it would have a testable effect. Same thing for sensitivity to specters and ghosts, or other paranormal/supernatural abilities. If they make you more successful at living until you procreate, eventually we'd be able to measure it.

[beecee]

2 hours ago, Phi for All said:

 Eventually I gave up on the idea of it being someone outside, and I think that made me listen more closely. I saw that the wind from my open window was moving the curtains, which made the plastic curtain pull knock against the wall. When I pulled the curtains aside to look down, it moved the plastic pull away from the wall and stopped the clicking. 

I do remember how convinced I was at the time that the sound was a woman walking in heels on a concrete sidewalk, but when I figured out what it really was, it didn't sound anywhere close. It sounded exactly like a curtain pull clicking against the wall.

Spoken like a true adherent to science and the scientific methodology.😉 My own experience previously detailed, was most probably due to tiredness and  somewhat fuzzy brain activity. After finding no reports of similar sightings next morning, I simply forgot about it and put it down to a brain fart.

1 hour ago, Phi for All said:

 I'm the same way with aliens from another planet; I know there could be other intelligent creatures in our galaxy, but I reject most of what makes some folks think we're being visited currently.

Bingo! at least while there are still obviously so many more mundane explantions for UFO/UAP sightings. I also reason that any visitation would be by Aliens vastly superior to us in intelligence and knowledge, and as such would not have too much to fear from us, other then possibly (other then as portrayed in "War of the Worlds) the most abundant and simple life forms. I reject that the comparisons would be like humans and ants...we do have evidence to show some technological advancements, (our cities, bridges etc) and that should be recognised by the Aliens, and a reason to make their visitation/s official...eg: like landing on the surrounds of the White House lawns, or in front of the Sydney Opera House. While I am confident we are not the only kids on the block, I am also resigned to the fact of the two great barriers preventing Alien contact...time and distance.

1 hour ago, StringJunky said:

My rationale eventually told me  it was 'subconcious me' telling myself something, but somebody less insightful and self aware could well think a spirit was speaking to them.

I sometimes go to bed after having displeased the Mrs with her nagging ringing in my ears, and wake up later with it still ringing in my ears. Then I roll over, give her a kiss on the cheek and tell er all is forgiven! 

[TheVat]

@Peterkin  What I wouldn't give to have my tinnitus sound like the Vienna Boys Choir. Or St Martin-in-the-Fields.  Mine is just crickets (in the fields).  

Telekinesis - using your mind to lift your hand is pedestrian.  Using just your mind to lift MY hand: that would be impressive.  I think the evolutionary argument against paranormal skills (as @Phi for All mentioned) is compelling.  Seeing specters could go either way in terms of adaptations that enhance reproductive prospects - in cultures where that's valued, that would be a plus and you might be a VIP, a sought-after shaman or similar.  OTOH, just the imagination and perceptiveness about people and what they want to hear might be sufficient to garner the prestige, so the frauds could do just as well as the truly gifted.  And probably do better overall, since they wouldn't have their mental stability impacted by the presence of actual ghosts, something that could be quite disturbing.

[Peterkin]

21 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

Such an ability would have spread in the population over time, at least to an extent where it would have a testable effect.

I'm aware of that argument, but don't find it entirely convincing. Why is it assumed that an unusual ability would spread among the population. I can think of several reason why it might remain relatively rare - association with detrimental genes, limited applicability, intermittent and uncontrollable, too weak for practical purposes - and maybe add social factors: conflict with prevailing supernatural belief, perception as a threat by others, nonconforming.

One would think ambidexterity is so advantageous, all the world should have it by now, yet it's restricted to 1% of the population.

29 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

Same thing for sensitivity to specters and ghosts,

Not quite the same: for feeling that a relative has died, we posit that an existing relative was alive. For sensing a ghost, we have to posit the existence of ghosts. 

34 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

If they make you more successful at living until you procreate, eventually we'd be able to measure it.

But why suppose that they do? How does hearing voices in her head help a child reach reproductive age? How would feeling another person's pain help a boy with the desire to reproduce himself on the body of a girl he loves?  Some anomalies make their bearers less successful at proliferating. The doesn't prove they don't exist and doesn't guarantee that they'll be bred out - not until the human population is drastically reduced, anyway.

Whatever forms of as-yet-unknown extra functions a brain may perform, if the CIA is interested, it's potentially harmful; if not, it's probably unimportant.    

[Phi for All]

1 minute ago, Peterkin said:

I'm aware of that argument, but don't find it entirely convincing. Why is it assumed that an unusual ability would spread among the population.

Unusual has nothing to do with it. Evolution would be selecting traits that make a person successful enough to mate, so the assumption is that perception that extends beyond the accepted senses would do so. It could be argued that certain sensitivities might not make one more attractive, but in general I'd say being able to do things most people can't is a net benefit.

[Peterkin]

2 hours ago, Phi for All said:

Unusual has nothing to do with it.

Unusual has quite a lot to do with it. If a mutation turns up all the time, it's unremarkable, just part of the standard. If it turns up rarely, it can be fatal, detrimental, neutral or beneficial to the user - and which of those it is will determine whether it's noticed, how it's regarded, and the probability of its being passed on. If it turns up rarely, it also has much longer odds of spreading in the predominantly standard population - especially if the gene is recessive.

2 hours ago, Phi for All said:

Evolution would be selecting traits that make a person successful enough to mate, so the assumption is that perception that extends beyond the accepted senses would do so

Yes. And I'm questioning the assumption. Again, I ask you: Why? If the visions or whatever have no practical application, how do they enhance the person's chances of reproducing? And even if such a marginal ability provided the bearer with a small advantage in gambling, for example, it's as likely that they would be denounced for cheating as applauded for winning. In whatever area, there is nothing but speculation regarding the reproductive advantage or disadvantage of some form and degree of ESP.

2 hours ago, Phi for All said:

It could be argued that certain sensitivities might not make one more attractive, but in general I'd say being able to do things most people can't is a net benefit.

It could be argued, too, that nobody wants a mate who can read their mind - it happens anyway, over the years, but few young people want to be transparent during courtship. Nor do chiefs, kings and high priests, so the little boy who can see them naked isn't likely to grow up at all. 

 Ambidexterity, otoh, is a clear and practical advantage, and still hasn't spread widely.