What would happen to space if passage of time was accelerating? Equality principle. Similarity of empty space. A Shrinking matter theory that might actually work.

[caracal]

What would happen to space if passage of time was accelerating? Equality principle and its consequences. Similarity of empty space. A Shrinking matter theory that might actually work. 

---This is quite long representation. There may be some mistakes.

 

Contents: 

Part I 

1. Two important principles: Equality principle and similarity of empty space 

2. Deriving equations of change for kinematic, dynamic properties and EM and gravitational properties starting from equality principle and demanding certain laws of nature to hold 

3. Transformation of spacetime 

4. Cross-interactions  

Part II  

5. Shrinking matter theory that might actually work (without causing any observed changes in local natural laws and nature constants except that there is matter that shrinks at different speed because of differences coming from slight time dilations.) 

6. Predictions of the shrinking matter theory 

 

'A kind of Abstract':

I have posted this kind of topic few years ago but there were many mistakes. I made this representation because i want put everything right.  

There are two parts in this text. In first part i speculate what kind of changes might take place in ordinary or normal spacetime if the passage of time was accelerating. In second part i fit this phenomenom to cosmology and i try to explain Hubble’s law and other cosmological observations. 

What is the key thought i want to deliver to you in this text? It is the thought that the spacetime could have ability to transform into certain forms in that way that local observer can’t observe the difference – that is what the equality principle is. 

Why i think this cosmological theory is worth of thought? Are there any observations that speak for it?

Well, there is actually one good observation that could speak for especially this shrinking matter theory what i propose. MRS hawking has published in 2011 a study where he concludes that quasars do not exhibit effects of time dilation. (https://arxiv.org/abs/1004.1824) This theory explain this because it predicts that black holes do not shrink – the shrinking of matter depends on its proper time and black hole event horizon’s time has stopped. 

There is a list in part 6 of other predictions. Many of them are very slight, but in they are (just barely) in the range of observations.  

A notable thing in this shrinking matter theory is, that it keeps nature laws and nature constants unchanced, what is problem in an ‘ordinary’ shrinking matter theory. It does that that way that i assume a weird principle of space or spacetime to be true, what i call equality principle. Starting deduction from this principle, there are many changes that takes place at the same time, not only shrinking. It looks like this is possible to do – if certain changes takes place the shrinking observer would measure all nature laws to be constant. If all matter would shrink at the same rate everywhere almost only thing we would see is that all distances grow.  

Except that some of the matter that has shrunk differently due to its time dilation (or lack of it) in the past. For example black holes, matter in compact objects and matter that has relativistic velocities. And this matter have certain properties. Since time dilations are very small in solar system (of magnitude 10^-6 to 10^-9) and since the phenomenom is very weak (about 6.93*10^-11 1/year that is just Hubble constant), these differences in matter are extremely small. If matter in outer solar system or in the sun has spent 5 billion years in its place, the differences between matter in different places in solar system would be then about of magnitude 10^-8 (on the surface of sun) to 10^-10 (on the surface of moon).   

Another difference in this theory is that the observed expansion of all distances is not caused by force. You can approximate it as a velocity v = k*r, where k = 2.20 * 10^-18. The effect of the apparent expansion of distances should be visible in solar system. There is a problem in this prediction of this theory. It predicts that earth-sun distance should increase at velocity 2.20*10^-18 * 1AU , that would make roughly 10.4 meters per year. But it is observed that earth precedes from sun by only 10-15 cm per year by radar measurements – that is 100 times less. On the other hand earth-moon distance should grow 2.66cm/year at least and the observed change is 3.8cm/year. Also Titan-Saturn distance should grow 8.47cm/year at least and the observed change is 11cm/year. Maybe the gravitation of other planets explain why sun-earth distance does not grow? Or maybe there is something wrong in the theory. 

There is evidence in the distribution of Kuiber belt objects that Neptune has migrated outward in the past by 9 AU, maybe because of interaction with planetesimals and dust. The distributions of KBO shows that KBO s has been swept out by 3:2 resonance with migrating neptune (Malhotra 1993) : 

According this shrinking matter theory, Both Neptune and KBOs should have migrated slowly outward during the lifetime of solar system. Neptune should migrate 51.37km away from the sun per period and KBO:s should migrate by same factor. Has that migration left any visible marks to KB ? 

This shrinking matter theory gives surface brightness to dimish proportional to inverse 4th power of redshift similarly as in expanding space theory that has Robertson-Walker metric. This result is coming from that the time rate increases and energies increases at the same time when matter shrinks. (These changes are required if i demand certain laws of nature to hold for shrinking observer.  Velocity of light should be constant for all observers and De Broglie equation l = h/p, Heisenberg uncertainity principle and Quantum of light equation E=hf to hold for all observers and to keep planck constant constant for all observers.) 

The equality principle - if it is true – might be a thought of the century. It tells that spacetime has unique property that no one has thought before. That is - If the passage of time accelerates, the spacetime can transform into certain form in that way that observer inside of the changing area –who is changing too - still measures all laws of nature to be same. If there were just one thing i would want you to think of , just think about this principle. Can it be true or not.  

Another important principle is the similarity of empty space. This principle – if it is true - makes possible that matter that has different rates of time, can coexist in same place. And the empty space around the matter still looks similar. 

 

 

1. Two important principles: Equality principle and similarity of empty space 

 
What would happen to space if passage of time was accelerating? 

This is the question i'd like to ask from you. 

I am not concidering here the question why the time would do that. Only thing i think is that there could be some process happening in the fundamental level in spacetime that changes the rate of time. There may not be mechanical explanation for the acceleration of time since it could happen in deep level in spacetime. I dont know answer to this ‘why’ question. But Newton didn't know what is the cause of gravity. Nobody knows why mass curves spacetime. Nobody knows what is the cause of particle-wave duality. This applies to many things in physics.   

But i state here that if the time rate do accelerate, there are certain consequences from this. 

I claim here that the passage of time could be so fundamental property of spacetime that if it would change, spacetime would maintains what i call an equality principle. 

Equality principle: all observers that have different time rates are equal that way that they all observe all laws of nature to have same form in their own coordinate and unit system and all constants of nature to have same values. They can't deduce what is their time rate without comparing themselves with another object that has different time rate. 

A special form of equality principle: Let there be an isolated box and an observer inside that box. Lets demand that the time inside the box is moving at different rate than outside. There is no gravitation or the box is in free fall in uniform gravitation field with constant gravity pull. Now the observer inside the box measures all laws of nature to have same form inside the box than what observer outside the box observes outside the box to be.  

I concider here the special form of equality principle.  

This equality principle is the basis of all deduction i do later here. 

The equality principle is strange principle. Spacetime would be very strange substance if it was true.  In the setting of the special form of this principle - No matter how fast your time is going inside the box, you would still measure that everything inside the box is like if your time rate would be normal 

If this principle is maintained when time accelerates there are many consequences. It must be, that if in the viewpoint of observer inside the box whose time run faster all laws of nature have same form and all constants of nature are same, then in the viewpoint of observer outside the box whose time does not run faster, if he could see inside the box, there must be changes in the physical properties of matter and fields inside the box that has fast time rate.  

There is actually a way to deduce how they change by demanding certain laws of nature to hold. 

There is yet one another important principle that i state to hold: Similarity of empty space: That is, empty space looks similar in the viewpoint of all observers with different time rates. This principle makes possible that i can just talk about matter and fields, or any physical objects generally, while not caring much what happens in empty space in the area where time is moving faster. The empty space looks similar in that area than some other area where time rate is ‘ordinary’. 

If this principle holds, then matter that have different time rates, can be in the same place at the same time.

 

2. Deriving equations of change 

 
Lets assume that there is a box and an observer inside box. And for some reason, the time inside of that box would start to run at different rate relative to the world outside of the box. 

1. all lengths should contract by inverse factor - otherwise observer with faster passage of time would observe the velocity of light to become smaller. I demand that the velocity of light stays constant: c'/c = 1. I also demand that the Newton first law holds. That means that particles or physical objects do not change their velocities if there is no force affecting them. 

2. all masses,momentum and energies should increase by same factor - otherwise the de broglie law lambda = h/p would not be valid and planck constant would change. Also the energy of photon would not be E = hf. I demand that Planck constant stays constant: h'/h = 1 and De Broglie equation lambda = h/p and Equation for photon energy E = hf hold. 

Also, if th principle of similarity of empty space holds, then I demand that the vacuum energy should look similar in the viewpoint of different observers with different time rates. Heisenberg uncertainity principle also should have same form: delta_p * delta_x = h/2pi .  

I think the vacuum energy distribution can be constant by following way: that the observer should change certain way when his time is accelerating. Demanding that Edt = E’dt’ and dpdx = dp’dx’ - That is – the measurement of some events energy * time of that event stays constant, and the measurement of uncertainty of momentum of some particle * the uncertainty of its place stays constant. This is possible when 2) is true. 

 

 

1 and 2 can be expressed by following equation: 

\[ dt'/dt = s'/s = 1/(E'/E) = 1/(p'/p) = 1/(m'/m) \] 

' states for new value and no ' states for old value. Both values are measured by observer outside of the box that has normal time rate. Dt is infinitesimally short time interval, s is either all lengths or length unit, and E,p,m are either all energies,momentums and masses or their units. 

From now on, i denote that \( dt’/dt = L \) ,where L is ‘factor of change’ 

1 - means that the acceleration of time must be coming together with isotropic contraction of all lengths. Or disintegration of all lengths and places – that means that every thing contracts towards its own center. 

2 – means that the acceleration of time also must be coming together with increase of mass, momentum and energy. 

If 2) should be true, the big principle in physics  that i have to ‘leave out’ or allow to be broken here is energy conservation principle. (But alternatively you could always just define that there is some kind of energy source present where the energy comes from.) Note that the energy is still conserved in the viewpoint of changed observer inside the box. So i have to leave out this principle because i demand Heisenberg uncertainity principle and de broglie law and that planck constant is universal constant to be valid. Instead of energy conservation, \( E*dt \) stays constant. That is, the infinitesimal cut of energy of some event during infinitesimal time integral.  

There are basicly two different ways how all lengths can contract. Isotropic contraction and disintegration. And something that is a bit of both. Here i make leap of faith and assume that ordinary matter, planets, objects in solar systems and stars contract isotropically, but everything in solar system, star systems and in bigger things in cosmological length scales disintegrates. Interstellar gas might do something between these two possibilities. I assume that the binding forces in ordinary matter are high enough to cause isotropic contraction of matter instead of the disintegration. Also because of the quantum mechanical nature of the matter, when the matter-wavelength of a particles becomes smaller when their mass increases, they should shift to closer orbit of molecule, atom and nucleus in order to keep its matter-wave in standing wave motion. 

Following picture shows how different observers that have different time rate, have different isotropic contraction and different change in energies, observe properties of a UV light that has certain wavelength and frequency. What is not shown in pictures, these observers observe alsto the energy of a photon to change. 

 

Following quite simple but important picture demonstrates the equality principle. Lets look at situation that there are many observers inside of their own box. All of the observers with different time rates think that everything is normal inside the box – All laws of nature are normal and all nature constant have normal values. This picture shows also that different time rate comes together with isotropic contraction of all lengths in ordinary matter. (Note that if there was gravitation or acceleration present, then different observers would observe the gravity pull or inertial acceleration differently: g_observed_by_observer = L g_normal. So if g=10m/s^2 for L=1 observer, the other observers would observe that gravity pull to be 6m/s^2 and 4m/s^2.) 

Now, if this equality principle is valid and 1 and 2 are true, it has to be that other properties like kinetic and dynamic properties, electric charge, coulomb constant and gravitational constant and for example radius of proton and neutron, should change too. 

 
Lets deduce the kinematic and dynamical properties of particles first: 

\( v'/v = 1 \) – all velocities remain unchanged 

\( a'/a = 1/(dt'/dt) \)– all accelerations increase 

\( (da/dt)'/(da/dt) = 1/(dt'/dt)^2 \) the time derivative of acceleration increases by the square of the change 

\( f'/f = 1/(dt'/dt) \) – all frequencies increase 

Now how about forces? i demand that Newtons 2. law holds: F = ma (classical) or F = dp/dt (relativistic) => \( F'/F = m'a'/ma = 1/(dt'/dt)^2 \) or just noting that the time derivative of p must change like (dp/dt)’ = (1/L^2)(dp/dt) 

It is important to note that this equation of change for force apply only if both objects that put force to each other, belong to the same changed object or system – that has contracted isotropically. This may not apply to cross-interaction between two differently changed objects. 

 
In order to deduce the equations of change for gravitational and electromagnetic properties and nature constants in perfectly isotropic contraction, you need to compare two systems, an ordinary system, say electron orbiting single proton, and two stars orbiting each other, and system that has changed, and start with for example Swarczshild metric and Coulomb law.  

I demand first that Coulomb law holds : F_coulomb = kQ1Q2/r^2  

\[ F_{coulomb}' = F_{coulomb} * 1/(dt'/dt)^2 = 1/L^2 \] 

\[ a = F_coulomb/m \] 

\[ r'/r = L \] 

\[ a'/a = 1/L \] 

=> \( (kQ1Q2)'/(kQ1Q2) = 1 \) 

How to go further than this? I can demand that electric charge stays unchanged: Q'/Q = 1, 

then it must be that k'/k = 1 , E'/E = 1 and B'/B = 1. 

 

But is this Q'/Q = 1 true? Lets concider following situation: Electron annihilates with positron that has different time rate. If Q'/Q wouldnt be 1, then where would the excess charge go if the charge is conserved in this reaction? It could be that this kind of reactions are not allowed or there is some new particle present that carry that charge, or Q’/Q = 1. Or maybe the conservation of electric charge does not hold in this reaction. which one it would be? I assume that Q’/Q = 1.  

There is one argument also: it might be so because there might be some deep unknown reason in that electric charge is quantized while different particles with same charge has different masses. 

I earlier thought without thinking much that it might be that k'/k = L^2 and Q'/Q = 1/L  

=> E'/E = 1/L and B'/B = 1/L 

(it could be actually that k'/k = A^2 and Q'/Q = 1/A for any A) 

Which one it would be? The difference between these two are in the cross-interactions. 

 

How about gravitation? Lets look what can be deduced when looking one specific property, I demand that the Schwarzchild radius of spherical nonrotating mass distribution for given mass M and G is r = GM/c^2 : 

It should be that: 

r'/r = L , like all distances s'/s = L. And Since c'/c =1, it must be that 

=> (GM)'/(GM) = L 

How to get further than this? I now demand that M'/M = 1/L , that is, gravitational mass changes like inertial mass m'/m = 1/L . These could be two different things, but i demand that they are the same physical property. 

=> G'/G = L^2  

But i think this last equation is not needed, that is, G always comes with M or other similar property of the gravitational source, that is in Schwarchild metric and Newton approximation term ‘GM’. 

Now i can put all together. 

Note that all these equations of change actually apply only for system that has changed both homogenously and isotropically. 

dt'/dt = L 

s'/s = L 

E'/E = p'/p = m'/m = 1/L 

velocities v'/v = 1 

accelerations a'/a = 1/(dt'/dt) 

frequencies f'/f = 1/(dt'/dt) 

wavelengths lambda'/lambda = (dt'/dt) 

density rho'/rho = 1/(dt'/dt)^4 

 

Forces F'/F = 1/(dt'/dt)^2 if both of the objects that put force to each other belong to changed system 

(GM_grav)'/(GM_grav) = 1/L 

Gravitational constant G'/G = (dt'/dt)^2 

Gravitational mass M_grav'/M_grav = 1/L 

Schwarzchild radius r'/r = L 

 

(kQ1Q2)'/(kQ1Q2) = 1 

coulomb constant k'/k = 1  

electric field E'/E = 1 

magnetic field B'/B = 1 

electric charge Q'/Q = 1 

 

The following picture illustrates how outside observer, if he can see what is happening inside box that has faster timerate, would measure and see the properties of physical objects inside the box. 

 

What about strong and weak interactions? I wont go there, but the starting point would be again the equality principle and the equations of change for kinematic and dynamic properties. For example the demand of equality principle ,c'/c = 1 and s'/s=L is that radius of proton should change like r'/r = dt'/dt.  

 

Anwers to some questions: 

 

So the gravitation constant changes? Yes it comes from demand that equality principle holds. For example the Schwarzchild radius should decrease like all specific lengths inside the box. What happens in isotropic contraction is that the gravitation field contracts as a whole, and that can be thought same as if the term GM became weaker. Note that the gravitation constant changes only in the viewpoint of unchanged observer outside the box and it stays still constant in the viewpoint of observer inside the box. This makes possible that if the time inside the box was say 1000 000 000 times faster, the box wouldn’t collapse into a black hole. 

But does the equality principle and similarity of empty space hold if time rate is very fast? Lets put the change in the extreme: What if the time rate inside of the box is say 10^10 times faster? I think it could be so that the equality principle still holds! I could here talk about that spacetime has a new kind of dimension, so called 'time scale dimension' or 'scale dimension'. 

Does this change of energy violate energy conservation law? Note first that the volume where the energy is has shrunk in 3 dimensions. I dont know what would be the energy source of this change. It may be that the spacetime itself contain some kind of energy. There would also be following law instead of energy conservation: Edt = E'dt' = constant - that means Energy times infinitesimal time interval of time is constant. That actually keeps the energy-time form of heisenberg uncertainity principle valid. That principle states that a quantum mechanical system is there allowed to have high energy if it last for small amount of time that way that E*deltaT = constant. 

How about electron that is point-like according to current understanding? How does it look if its timerate is faster ? Well first maybe electron do have radius but it is extremely small, for example 10^-50 meters or say 100 times bigger than black hole with same mass. And electrons electric field may vanish or be smaller than inverse of the distance times constant in very close distances. Coulomb law may not be valid in the very close radius. In that case the em field of electron would not go to extremely high value in close distances. It is also possible that electron is already transformed particle, when its size can be smaller than black hole with same mass. 

Now if the passage of time was accelerating in some system like i speculate later, and if this change in the time rate depends on the proper time, it could depend on the time dilations inside the system how fast the changes take place in different places. Then the change couldn't be homogenous for the whole system. Then these equations of change do not exactly apply. This might be actually a problem in the shrinking matter theory what i represent later, because then for example the protons or gluons and quarks might change at different rate than electrons. 

What about vacuum energy? if the similarity of space - principle is valid, vacuum energy should be same for all observers who have different time rates. I think the answer is that Heisenberg's uncertainity principle has exactly same form for all observers: deltaE*deltat = h/2pi . 

 

 

3. Transformation of spacetime 

 

The general name for this phenomenom, where there are multiple changes in the area where the passage of time is faster in a way that the area maintains the equality principle – Could be “spacetime transformation” or “space transformation”. Transformation would just mean a change in properties.  

The term transformation is used in the field of optics. When some picture is changed if there is a lens system put between projector and screen, you can say that the picture is transformed by the lens system. Thermal expansion can be thought as a transformation of matter. All length contractions and time dilations that are present in the theories of relativity can be thought as transformation of all lengths and time rate.  

The idea that spacetime or space can in certain circuimstances transform into certain different forms is new in physics. Also the equality principle is a property that i think has not been presented earlier.  

Spacetime transformations may be a building block of new theories in physics. That is one reason i have interest to think about this subject. 

For example in solving the mystery of particle-wave duality. What i think of the particle-wave duality that it could be explained by some kind of pilot wave theory or Bohm theory. Particles may there have classical trajectories but those trajectories are difficult to predict. I may be that the electric fields of all particles have some kind of perturbations. That perturbation may for example cause all particles to have temporarily high kinetic energies that can also be taken away from the particle in short times – that could explain Heisenberg uncertainty principle and tunneling effect. The double slit experiment could be explained by that particle causes an otherwise unseen field around it, this perturbation, that travels throught the other slit and hits the particle after the slit – that cause the interference pattern behind the slit. 

 

4. Cross interactions 

 
But how about cross-interactions? I mean for example EM force and gravitation between ordinary object and object that has changed homogenously and isotropically by for example factor L ? 

Lets look first gravitation. Now i think about system of three objects, one with big mass M and others are two point-like objects that have very small masses m and m', but this second object has changed by factor L.  

When thinking equivalence principle that is the basis of Einsteins gravitation theory, i demand that both small objects should fall with equal gravitational acceleration in the gravitational field of object M. 

(Actually i am not sure is it really the case, but i just can’t think this through.) 

 
Lets use the Newtonian gravitation law that is still a good approximation in stellar systems. Lets look then situation that there is big object with mass M' that has changed by factor L and second object, that is point-like and has mass m. 

The gravity pull of big object should be now (GM)'/r'^2 = 1/L but remember that this is a situation where r' is L times smaller than r. The gravity pull in the distance of r is L^2 times  weaker because the inverse square law of g : g = L GM/r^2 .  (remember that L < 1) 

So the object that consist of ‘transformed matter’ should have weaker gravity pull than same kind of object that constists of normal matter. 

 
The EM -cross interaction case raises question is k'/k = 1 and Q'/Q = 1 or k'/k = L^2 and Q'/Q = 1/L. The conservation of electric charge and the quantization of electric charge, that is charges comes always with multiples of e, would speak for the first option. There may be some strange reason for this. These could be fundamental laws of nature, but are they? What happens when changed electron annihilates with normal positron? If the second option is true, where does the excess charge go? 

If the first option is true, then force between proton and changed electron is same than force between unchanged proton and unchanged electron. But changed electron would now accelerate less because it has more mass. 

So, IF Q’/Q = 1 and k’/k = 1 - This would be the only observed change in EM interactions of ‘transformed particle’ - it has 1/L times more mass. 

 

 

But what if the second option is true ? That Q'/Q = 1/L, E'/E = 1/L, B'/B = 1/L and k'/k = L^2 ? 

when changed electron is in the Electromagnetic field of ordinary proton, its mass-charge ratio is 1. That means it accelerates similarly as unchanged electron and for example it would go into similar path than ordinary electron in normal electric or magnetic field. This would mean that it is not possible to distinguish transformed electrons from ordinary electrons just by looking its trajectory in EM fields. You should weigth the electron in gravitation in order to notice that transformed electron has more mass than ordinary electron. 

But what happens to that ordinary proton in the EM field of changed electron? The electric and magnetic field of changed electron should be changed by factor 1/L. It means you could notice that transformed electrons (or protons) cause stronger EM fields than ordinary electrons (or protons) 

 

5. Shrinking matter theory (that might actually work) 

 

I got feedback from one man that shrinking matter theories fails because it would unavoidably mean that laws of nature and nature constants change over time and that is not what is observed.  

The starting point of this theory is that i assume that the passage of time is accelerating by factor 

\[ \frac{dt}{dt} = 1 + 2.20*10^-18 [1/s] \] 

This is linear approximation.  

The local observer observes all laws of nature to be unchanged because the area of the change in time rate keeps equality principle and similarity of empty space –principle is valid. I Claim that these principles are possible to keep valid if the changes i wrote about in part 2. takes place in the area where the time rate gets faster.  

This acceleration of time rate causes that matter shrinks in planets, stars and galaxies. I also assume that all matter shrinks at the same rate and all matter has same time rate. 

-Which is not actually exactly true because of time dilation differences. But the time dilation differences in for example solar system are very small because the escape velocities and orbital velocities of planets are small. The time dilations are significant in relativistic particles and compact objects like neutron stars and black holes. The velocity differences between galaxies are i think less than 5000 km/s, so the difference in time rate between galaxies are still quite small. 

So besides of these differences, only thing what we would see is that all distances appear to grow. But all matter is not shrinking at the same speed because of time dilation differences. 

 
So i make starting point assumption that the passage of time of all ordinary matter is accelerating in that way that space maintain equality principle. And principle of the similarity of empty space holds. 

i use the equations of change now. 

For any physical object: 

1) dt'(t) = L(t)dt , where L(t) depends on the proper time or natural time of the object 

2) s'/s = L(t) 

3) E'/E = p'/p = m'/m = 1/L(t) 

(+all other equations of change) 

 

 

What is the cause of cosmological redshift and time dilation in this shrinking matter theory? They both are coming from that matter has been bigger and its passage of time has been slower in the past. In expanding space theory they come from that the signal that travels in empty space is stretching when the space is expanding. 

Following picture represents how shrinking matter theory explain that space appears to be expanding. White balls are astronomical objects like stars and planets. Black ball on the center is a black hole that does not shrink. The grid is a coordinate grid of the rest frame where all matter in the universe lies more or less. The grid is shrinking over time and all distances appear to grow for so called shrinking observer. Note that the stars and planets contracts towards their center isotropically. Also , in this theory the time rate is accelerating also. The velocity of light and in fact all velocities remain constant. I think these two changes in both meter-stick and time unit leads to Robertson-Walker metric. But that is now only apparent metric – all changes are in the matter in the universe.

 

There are two different ways the space could change when the matter is shrinking – Isotropic contraction or disintegration. And there may be a grey zone that is between these two. I think it depends on the binding forces which way some physical object shrink. I think ordinary matter and matter in stars have enough strong binding forces and they shrink isotropically, but planetary systems, galaxies and space in cosmological scale very weak binding forces and they shrink that way that they disintegrate. Also the quantum systems would contract isotropically because the particles need adjust to smaller orbitals in order to have standing matter-wave.

 

But what is then the apparent distance expansion as a function of elapsing time that is observed by ‘observer who shrinks’ ? Lets denote it by LL(t'), where t' is elapsing time for shrinking observer. You can make first linear approximation  

LL(t')=(1+k(t'-t0'))  

Then you can make exponential approximation  

LL(t')=exp(k(t'-t0))  

If i assume that the proportional change for example in the observed wavelength of ligth is same for every infinitesimal time interval dt', this would lead to exponential law for LL. This argument would suite well together with equality principle: The proportional change in the wavelength of light is same for all different observers with different time rates. 

 

 

Hubble’s law, Tolman test and Quasar time dilation 

The Hubble redshift can now be explained in a way that observers own time rate, length unit and energy unit changes while photon does not change. 

There is a so called cosmological test as ‘Tolman test’– how does the surface brigthness P/A change. The answer is that the unit of power changes by factor 1/LL^2 and the cross section changes by factor 1/LL^2, that would make surface brightness change by factor 1/LL^4 that means it is changes proportional to inverse fourth power of redshift. This is i think same relation what you get in cosmology that has expanding space with Robertson-Walker metric. 

There is one astronomical reseach result that actually could be explained by this shrinking matter theory i have made here:  

MRS Hawking (2010) has measured frequency distributions of quasars that have different distances and his study has a result, that quasars do not exhibit effects of time dilation. (https://arxiv.org/abs/1004.1824) All frequency distributions are similar.  

This could suite together with shrinking matter theory because black holes do not shrink. IF we assume that the size distribution of black holes is same everywhere, BH at different distances should have same radius and same spin rate, and only the matter that is falling into BH would be different. That way that atoms and molecules of the falling gas have shrunk more and has faster time rate in closer distances than in far distances, and light coming from them should be redshifted.  

(Actually the ergosphere of BH does not have stopped time dilation but its time runs about 1% times slower than time far away from BH. ) 

 

Distance expansion 

Shrinking matter theory is different from expanding space also in that apparent expansion of distances is not caused by force. It is the change in observers own length unit. 

I dont know how to write together these two things, apparent distance expansion and gravity pull and solve the orbit of the planet: 

1) s' = s0 (1 + k(t-t0)) or s0 * exp(k[t-t0]) - apparent expansion of all distances 

2) d^2r/dt^2 = - GM/r^2 , when k -> 0 - gravity pull of the sun 

I think you can put this in to words by saying that during small time step the planet first is moved by gravity and after that – the second step is it appear 'magically' to gain more distance from the sun. I could make up numerical intergration by computer from this.  

 

 

Expansion of the universe and space in cosmological length scales 

How the space actually appear to expand then? Well there could be four phenomena influencing to the apparent and real expansion or contraction of space. The expansion of space that has started in big bang, gravity that pull matter together and this new phenomenom what i call 'distance expansion' r'=[1 + L(t'-t_0)]r_0. - and then there could be dark energy. 

It could be also so that there is no real expansion or contraction of space present. Also it could be that there is no dark energy present. 

Then there would be only gravitation and this distance expansion that both influence to that how the space looks expanding. 

The easiest case is a model universe, that does not have ‘ordinary expansion of space’ and has only dust that has very weak gravitation and this distance expansion. Then the scale factor that is completely coming from apparent distance expansion, would be just a(t') = LL(t'), keeping that the time dilation differences are small. If LL is exponential this is similar than whas it de Sitter space – that has only cosmological constant. 

If there would be only two phenomena that effect to observed expansion of space are the shrinking of matter and gravitation, what would be the time dependence of scale factor a(t)?. In the case where LL is exponential it should be possible to write an equation. I can’t write this equation here now. 

I think i could make again calculation for a(t') by taking small time steps and do numerical calculation. Again, If LL(t') is known, for example it is exponential function then it is possible to calculate the a(t'). 

But what is this constant k? I can make just a rough guess that k is about 5-10 % greater than Hubble constant H_0. The difference would come from that gravity is pulling matter together. 
 

Problems in this shrinking matter theory 

There is one problem with the time dilations of the particles. For example proton. Gluons inside proton might have significant time dilation - this would lead to that protons transform slower than electrons when their time is becoming faster. This should have been observed: the properties of electron and proton , like mass, are known in many significant numbers. Proton and electron should have nearly equal time dilation in order to this theory to work. But the time dilation in electron orbiting atom may not be a problem since electrons may exhange their place in atom. But do the gluons really have relativistic speeds inside proton? If so, that causes a problem, since this has not been observed.

 
What is the limit between when some object contract isotropically and when the object disintegrates, i mean contract that way that its constituents contracts towards their own center?  

-I think it depends on the strength of binding forces in the matter and there is no clear limit. But since gravitation is about 36 magnitudes of order weaker than electromagnetic forces, i could say, that all solid matter and all matter in stars and planets contract isotropically and celestial systems consisting of stars and planets contracts that way that planets and stars contracts toward their center. Interstellar gas and dust may be somewhere between these two extremes, and they contract only partially as a whole object. 

Also the quantum nature of the matter causes that if the matter-wavelength of electrons in atoms decrease when their mass and momentum increase, they adjust to new orbit around the nucleus in order to matter-wave to have standing wave-motion. This might happen also inside the atom nucleus and inside protons and neutrons. 

 
When the universe was very young all matter was together. At some point of time they would have had enough binding forces that the universe would have shrunk as a whole isotropically. What made the universe to disintegrate that way that clumps of matter started to shrink towards their own center? I think this would require some kind of rip off or inflation to be present. 

 

The distance expansion that is not a force but roughly a velocity - should be visible in solar system and it should be 2.20*10^-18 1/s times any distance. If this all is tranferred to the increase of semimajor axis of a planet, earth should migrate 10.4m/year away from the sun. But it is observed that Astronomical unit is changing only by 15cm/year. On the other hand earth-moon distance should increase by at least 2.66cm/year - the observed change of earth-moon distance is 3.8cm/year. Saturn-Titan distance should increase by at least 8.47cm/year and the observed increase is 11cm/year. The distance between Neptune and Sun is not well known since Neptune has made only one Period after its discovery. What would explain why at least the inner solar system planets does not migrate as it is predicted by this theory? Is it so that the gravitation of other planets cancels this effect out? Or is this really a prediction of this theory? 

 

What about particle collisions? Why there are no transformed matter particles produced in those events? - Maybe they need this kind of matter in the first place.

 

 

6. Predictions of shrinking matter theory 

 

Distance expansion. 

The distance expansion is r’ = r0 exp (k(t-t0)) or r’ = r0 (1+k(t-t0)) (linear approximation), where k = D* 6.93 * 10^-11 /year or 329 nm/s/AU or 10.37 m/year/AU. 

Distance expansion in solar system: 

• Neptune-Sun distance: 311.7m/year and 51.37km/period 

• Uranus-Sun distance: 199.0m/year and 16.72km/period 

• Earth-Sun distance: 10.37m/year 

• Jupiter-Sun distance: 53.96m/year and 640.0 m/period 

• Earth-Moon distance: 2.66 cm/year 

• Saturn-Titan distance:8.47 cm/year 

 

Delay effect in gravitation 

How about delay in gravity and EM interactions? Both of them travels at the velocity of light. This would cause that the gravity has delay effect – Gravitation is slightly stronger than Newton’s gravitation law- the effect is very small. 

F = (1+kc/r)GM1M2/r^2  

or exponential approximation  

F = exp(kc/r)GM1M2/r^2  

This is because the gravitation has been stronger in the past. (This formula does not apply if the gravitating object is compact star or black hole) 

 

Transformed matter. 

There should be ‘transformed matter’ in particles that have travelled long distances at very high velocities and in compact matter that is old. They have relative L greater than 1. On the other hand there is matter away from the influence of gravity that has L slightly less than 1 relative to matter on earth. Transformed particles have 1/L times mass of ordinary similar particle, L times half time and L times greater gravitation (if it can be measured) and L times the size (if it can be measured). The spectral lines of transformed matter are L times redshifted (or blueshifted) - that shift may be hard to distinguish from the spectral shift coming from doppler effect. 

 

The transformation difference is L =  1+(time difference)*k, where k = 6.93*10^-11 1/year 

• Cosmic ray proton that has travelled 100 million LYrs in ultrarelativistic speed 

• * L = 1.0693 - has 1/L times less mass than ordinary proton  

• 300 million years old neutron star that has surface time dilation 0.7 

• L = 1 + 0.3*0.3*0.0693 = 1.006237 - Has L times stronger gravitation and L times more time dilation (at least- the time dilation at the center is higher and there may be convection) 

• Sirius B – age 124 000 000 years with time dilation on its surface 1- 1.46*10^-5 

• L = 1 + (0.124 * 1.46*10^-5 * 0.124 ) = 1.00000013 - has L times stronger gravitation and L times more time dilation (at least) compared to the time of the birth of white dwarf 

• Black hole that has age 1 billion years 

• L = 1.0693 - thas L times stronger gravity and L times larger radius (at least for non-rotating BH) than when it was born (even when it is not feeded by any matter) 

• Matter on the surface of sun and in solar wind – age 4.6 billion years, time dilation (missing) 

• L = 1.00000073 - proton has 1/L times less mass and all matter has L times more time dilation (at least) and has L times redshifted spectral lines.  

• Matter in asteroid belt asteroids. Age 5 Billion years, time dilation = 1 – 5.337* 10^-9 

• Relative to earth surface matter L = 1 - 0.0000000102 - Any particle in it Has 1/L times more mass than similar particle of earths matter. 

• Spectral lines of transformed matter in milky way and other galaxies are either redshifted L>1 or blueshifted L<1 depending the ‘time difference’. this may be difficult to distinguish from doppler effect. 

 

The Friedmann equations 

• I can’t solve this. But the ordinary Friedmann equations do not hold. There is new kind of phenomenom, that is 'apparent growth or expansion of all distances' that comes from that the observer himself is contracting: D = D0 * LL(t), where LL may be exponential function of time LL(t) = exp (k (t-t0)) 

 

Twin Paradox 

• Second kind of twin paradox: The other twin has transformed matter relative to other twins matter because he has experienced less time – and therefore matter in him and his space vessel have contracted less than matter on earth. 

 

Atom Clock in Twin Paradox 

• The atom clock that is carried by other twin that has travelled in space should have permanent time dilation relative to similar clock that is carried by other twin on earth. The factoral time dilation would be 1 - (time difference) * 6.93*10^-11 [1/year] .

 

End.

[studiot]

5 minutes ago, caracal said:

\[ dt'/dt = s'/s = 1/(E'/E) = 1/(p'/p) = 1/(m'/m) \] 

I'm sorry to tell you that this is meaningless.

You are confusing functional dependence with transformational equivalence.

[swansont]

How is your idea testable?

 

 

[Markus Hanke]

8 hours ago, caracal said:

A Shrinking matter theory that might actually work. 

Unfortunately neither the weak nor the strong interaction are invariant under rescaling, so no ‘shrinking matter’ model - irrespective of its details - can ever work, on fundamental grounds.

[bangstrom]

I don’t have time to comment now but you might want to look into some of the works of Christof Wetterich.

https://www.thphys.uni-heidelberg.de/~wetterich/index.php?n=Main.TalksCosmology

https://arxiv.org/a/wetterich_c_1.html

“Do we know that the Universe expands? instead of redshift due to expansion :smaller frequencies have been emitted in the past, because electron mass was smaller !”

[caracal]

Quote

\[ dt'/dt = s'/s = 1/(E'/E) = 1/(p'/p) = 1/(m'/m) \] 

(Studiot) I'm sorry to tell you that this is meaningless. You are confusing functional dependence with transformational equivalence.

These are simply proportions. I dont know what would be the standard notation.

(Lets think about situation that there is a box where time is moving faster and there are observer inside of that box. and that there is observer outside of the box whose time does not run faster)

In words that equation above  says that 

the proportion between infinitesimal time unit inside the box
and time unit outside of the box is same as proportion between length unit inside the box
and any length unit outside the box that is same as inverse of the proportion between energy unit inside the box
and energy unit outside te box etc.

What it means that inside the box time runs faster, all lengths are smaller by same factor and all energies
,momentum and masses are greater by inverse of the same factor

dt'/dt = L  s'/s = L E'/E = 1/L p'/p = 1/L m'/m = 1/L

,where L is some factor and 0 < L < 1

why the time units has to be infinitesimal? because if the time is accelerating, then
the equation of change for elapsing time is changing when time elapses.
that equation of change for elapsing time would be t' = integral[0->t] L(t)dt , where L(t) is some function.

does this make sense?

Quote

(Swansont): "How is your idea testable?"

It should be so that it can be tested directly whether matter shrinks.

The mass of the proton is known by many numbers of significance. M = 938.27208816(29) MeV/c^2 (from wikipedia)
If one collects solar wind particles and cosmic ray particles and measure their mass,
the mass should be slightly less than ordinary. These particles have been subject to
time dilation and they have shrunk or contracted less in the past relative to similar particles on the surface of earth. 

The escape velocity on the surface of sun is 617.7km/s, that would make gravitational 
time dilation T/t = 1 -2.117*10^-6
since the sun is 4.6 Billion years old and the matter shrinks at the rate 1.0693 1/Byrs
the transformation difference would be L = 1 + (2.117*10^-6*0.0693*4.6) = 1 + 6.75*10^-7
That means the proton in solar wind should have at least 1/L times less mass than ordinary
proton. 
The mass of ordinary proton : 938.27208816(29) Mev/c^2
The mass of proton in sw    : 938.27145...     Mev/c^2 or less.

The cosmic ray particle that has travelled 100 MLY in space near the velocity of light
should have transformation difference L = 1 + 0.0693 * 0.1 = 1.00693
The mass of ordinary proton : 938.27208816(29) Mev/c^2
The mass of proton in CRays : 931.8146...      Mev/c^2

If one runs particle accelerator for say 4 years and keeps its proton beam particles
near the speed of light, the transformation difference between proton that has been
in particle accelerator and ordinary proton would be
L = 1 + 4 years *6.93*10^-11 1/year
The mass of ordinary proton : 938.27208816(29) Mev/c^2
the mass of proton in pacc. : 938.27208790...  Mev/c^2

Quote

(Markus Hanke): "Unfortunately neither the weak nor the strong interaction 
are invariant under rescaling, so no ‘shrinking matter’ model - irrespective of its 
details - can ever work, on fundamental grounds."

 I didn't find anything useful to say about W and S interactions so i left them out from
this text.

How i think is that the strong and weak interactions do not need to have any special properties.

Why? This is how i think:

The equality principle is the starting point here. The spacetime itself changes. 

It changes like for example projection in the screen if the projector is pushed closer to the screen,
and second change would be that the time runs in the picture faster, that could be
similar than if there is video player that is set to play a motion picture at faster speed.

The object in the screen can have any kind of properties, right? similarly the object that has faster time rate and shorter length unit can have any properties whatsoever.

Then, after this assumption, if i want to deduce how the objects inside the box changes exactly, i  start to deduce how different kinematic and dynamical
properties should change inside the box where time runs faster - in the viewpoint of observer outside the box. I demand certain laws of nature holds, what i do in part 2 in the text. But i have wrote only about gravitation and EM interaction, not about Strong and weak interaction.

for example yukawa potential, that is one mathematical potential - if all
lengths should contract, then if some object inside of the box has this kind of potential, i deduce that then the radius of this potential should also contract.
 

This is quite long answer and maybe there is something wrong in my thinking.

[swansont]

2 hours ago, caracal said:

It should be so that it can be tested directly whether matter shrinks.

I agree it should be

2 hours ago, caracal said:

The mass of the proton is known by many numbers of significance. M = 938.27208816(29) MeV/c^2 (from wikipedia)
If one collects solar wind particles and cosmic ray particles and measure their mass,
the mass should be slightly less than ordinary. These particles have been subject to
time dilation and they have shrunk or contracted less in the past relative to similar particles on the surface of earth. 

The protons on earth all came from somewhere else. Electrons, too. 

Does it stand to reason that according to your conjecture, all protons and all electrons would all have slightly different masses, depending on their history? But we know that they don’t - protons are identical, and electrons are identical. And we know that’s the case, because the Pauli exclusion principle only works for identical fermions. If these particles weren’t identical, we wouldn’t have atoms as we know them. But we do. 

 

[studiot]

3 hours ago, caracal said:

These are simply proportions. I dont know what would be the standard notation.

 

3 hours ago, caracal said:

The equality principle is the starting point here. The spacetime itself changes. 

 

Changes with respect to what ?

 

On 2/25/2022 at 5:42 PM, caracal said:

1 and 2 can be expressed by following equation: 

\[ dt'/dt = s'/s = 1/(E'/E) = 1/(p'/p) = 1/(m'/m) \] 

The problem as I see it is that you are offering a rate of change with respect to itself, which is meaningless.

using  dt'/dt means the change of t' with respect to t.

How can this be proportional or anything else ? That is stating a functional relationship which require a common standard to compare by.

The simple relationship "distance is proportional to time"   has two variables. You only have one.

[MigL]

On 2/25/2022 at 8:52 PM, Markus Hanke said:

Unfortunately neither the weak nor the strong interaction are invariant under rescaling,

That, and the fact that time symmetry is the foundation for energy conservation.

Time speeding up in the forward direction, and slowing in the backward direction, implies no process is reversible.

[beecee]

On 2/26/2022 at 12:52 PM, Markus Hanke said:

Unfortunately neither the weak nor the strong interaction are invariant under rescaling, so no ‘shrinking matter’ model - irrespective of its details - can ever work, on fundamental grounds.

I once had someone pushing a similar hypothetical. He called it his "shrinking rule" model. My point to that  was we see light redshifted, (lengthened) which I saw as invalidating such thoughts.

[Markus Hanke]

5 hours ago, caracal said:

The spacetime itself changes. 

And this is the problem, because, in natural units, the coupling constants in the weak and strong Lagrangians are dimensionless. So if you rescale lengths, the relative strengths of the various terms within the Lagrangian changes, and the whole thing breaks down.

5 hours ago, caracal said:

then if some object inside of the box has this kind of potential, i deduce that then the radius of this potential should also contract.

The Lagrangian of such a system consists of more terms than just the potential; and the relationship between those terms that is the issue.

5 hours ago, caracal said:

How i think is that the strong and weak interactions do not need to have any special properties.

Yes they do - they would need to be invariant under rescaling, which they are not.

[bangstrom]

9 hours ago, Markus Hanke said:

Yes they do - they would need to be invariant under rescaling, which they are not.

 

If time quickens, lengths grow shorter so locally length and time remain proportional to the value of c.

Since all changes in distance and time remain proportional to c there is no change in proportions that requires rescaling.

 

 

 

11 hours ago, beecee said:

I once had someone pushing a similar hypothetical. He called it his "shrinking rule" model. My point to that  was we see light redshifted, (lengthened) which I saw as invalidating such thoughts.

How do you know if light has lengthened or if your standard for length has grown shorter? All you have observed is that wavelengths light from a distant source are longer than you expected.

[beecee]

44 minutes ago, bangstrom said:

How do you know if light has lengthened or if your standard for length has grown shorter? All you have observed is that wavelengths light from a distant source are longer than you expected.

The redshift of light (lengthening) is said to be caused by the expansion of spacetime. If we use the shrinking rule perspective, how does that fit in then with the gradual diminishing of the CMBR? The temperature was around 3000K when the first element formed. Plus there is obviously a limit to how much anything can shrink.

[swansont]

50 minutes ago, bangstrom said:

The expansion of spacetime is an assumption… not an observation.

!

Moderator Note

It's mainstream physics and taken as true for purposes of discussion. This is not your thread, which is for discussion of caracal's proposal (even though it has been falsified), not yours or anyone else's

 

[caracal]

Moderator note: It's mainstream physics and taken as true for purposes of discussion. This is not your thread, which is for discussion of caracal's proposal (even though it has been falsified), not yours or anyone else's

Excuse me, but what makes you think that my theory falsified? i might have been drop out.
There are two parts in my theory. Equivalence principle and the shrinking matter theory that is a fit to Hubble law.

I would like to ask, do you see the equality principle what it is about, and understand what i am trying to say there?

 

Quote(Beecee) I once had someone pushing a similar hypothetical. He called it his "shrinking rule" model. My point to that  was we see light redshifted, (lengthened) which I saw as invalidating such thoughts.

For example pioneer 10 had last successful communication with earth at 2002-4-27 when it was 80.22 AU away. If matter shrinks in the way i described, there should be redshift in pioneer 10:s signal.

redshift = 1 + 2.20*10^-18 1/s * 1,50*10^11 m/AU * 80.22 AU / (2.998 * 10^8 m/s) = 1 + 8.830 * 10^-14

But in this theory the light emitted by for example table lamp does not get redshifted as time elapses if i put it on for say million years later. It is the equality principle what states that.

 

Quote(Studiot) "The problem as I see it is that you are offering a rate of change with respect to itself, which is meaningless."

What i am trying to do is to say in mathematical form that if the L = 1/2 ,then :

-One hour inside the box runs out in 30 minutes in the perspective of outside observer, so the time rate is 2 times faster

-All lengths and length unit is 2 times smaller. The meter looks like half meter in the viewpoint of outside observer

-All energies and energy unit is 2 times greater. One Joule looks like two joules in the viewpoint of outside observer

-All massses and mass unit is 2 times greater inside the box. One kg looks like 2 kg in the viewpoint of outside observer

I dont know if there is standard notation for this kind of equations.

How i write above mathematically is

t_in/t_out = L

s_in/s_out = L

E_in/E_out = L

m_in/m_out = L

,where L = 2 in this example.

 

(Quote)(Swansont) "The protons on earth all came from somewhere else. Electrons, too. 

Does it stand to reason that according to your conjecture, all protons and all 
electrons would all have slightly different masses, depending on their history? But
 we know that they don’t - protons are identical, and electrons are identical. And we 
know that’s the case, because the Pauli exclusion principle only works for identical 
fermions. If these particles weren’t identical, we wouldn’t have atoms as we know them. 
But we do."

 

The differences and variations in electrons mass in the matter on earth could be so 
small that they haven't been noticed.

I just have a thought that pauli exclusion principle could work between electrons that has similar EM properties but slightly different
mass. The only change could be that more massive electron may favor lower energy state slightly more than
less massive. 

The electrons in matter should have sligth differences because they move in their orbital at
high velocities that are different in different orbitals. For example lowest electrons in Uranium atom have high velocities. But on the other hand they may exchange their places sometimes what makes the differences to become more even.

 

(Quote)(Markus Hanke) " And this is the problem, because, in natural units, the coupling constants in 
the weak and strong Lagrangians are dimensionless. So if you rescale lengths, the 
relative strengths of the various terms within the Lagrangian changes, and the whole 
thing breaks down. "

This discussion start to look like yes-no discussion.

This sounds simple to say but the equality prinicple is the hearth of my theory.
Yes the time rate changes, and lengths changes but the equality principle states that
observer inside the box does not notice any difference in anything. 

I deduce in the section 2) that in the viewpoint of observer outside of the box the 
lengths and time rate changes inside the box, but in fact acceleration, energy, momentum, 
mass, power, local forces, density should change also. This is because the certain
laws of nature should hold. Velocity and Planck constant does not change.

t'/t = L s'/s = L
a'/a = 1/L E'/E = 1/L p'/p = 1/L m'/m = 1/L P'/P = 1/L^2 F'/F = 1/L^2 rho'/rho = 1/L^4 
v'/v = 1 h'/h = 1 k'/k = 1 Q'/Q = 1 f'/f = 1/L

I dont know what these coupling constants and lagrangians looks like, but if they
are dimensionless, i guess they stay dimensionless and changes in different properties 
in the formula cancel each other out - in the viewpoint of observer that is outside of the box.

for example fine structure constant is alpha = ke^2/hc . there the changes in 
different quantities
are k'/k = 1 e'/e = 1 h'/h = 1 and c'/c = 1 so that makes alpha'/alpha = 1

Edited February 28, 2022 by caracal

[swansont]

38 minutes ago, caracal said:

Excuse me, but what makes you think that my theory falsified?

The bit I brought up about identical particles, and what Markus brought up about scaling of the interactions you didn't address. Both contradict your claims, and both have experimental evidence to support them

38 minutes ago, caracal said:

The differences and variations in electrons mass in the matter on earth could be so 
small that they haven't been noticed.

Not good enough. The Pauli exclusion principle is predicated on identical particles, not "only tiny differences"

If you are predicting differences between these particles, then they are not identical, and you are wrong.

Quote

The electrons in matter should have sligth differences because they move in their orbital at high velocities that are different in different orbitals. For example lowest electrons in Uranium atom have high velocities. But on the other hand they may exchange their places sometimes what makes the differences to become more even.

hey don't have an identifiable velocity, since they don't have identifiable trajectories. That's a classical notion, and not consistent with QM.  

42 minutes ago, caracal said:

I would like to ask, do you see the equality principle what it is about, and understand what i am trying to say there?

No, not really, I don't see any kind of clear explanation of what the equality principle is. 

[studiot]

1 hour ago, caracal said:

Quote(Studiot) "The problem as I see it is that you are offering a rate of change with respect to itself, which is meaningless."

What i am trying to do is to say in mathematical form that if the L = 1/2 ,then :

-One hour inside the box runs out in 30 minutes in the perspective of outside observer, so the time rate is 2 times faster

-All lengths and length unit is 2 times smaller. The meter looks like half meter in the viewpoint of outside observer

-All energies and energy unit is 2 times greater. One Joule looks like two joules in the viewpoint of outside observer

-All massses and mass unit is 2 times greater inside the box. One kg looks like 2 kg in the viewpoint of outside observer

I dont know if there is standard notation for this kind of equations.

How i write above mathematically is

t_in/t_out = L

s_in/s_out = L

E_in/E_out = L

m_in/m_out = L

,where L = 2 in this example.

I know what you are trying to say, my problem is that that which you are trying to say is either self contradictory or contains a hidden 'universal time'.

Hiding it in bad mathematics does not make any difference.

"One hour inside the box runs out in 30 minutes in the perspective of outside observer, so the time rate is 2 times faster"

One hour according to whom ?

if you say one hour in the box is equivalent to 1/2 hour outside, or the other way round, that is a transformation not a proportion from one point of view to another.

If you say that some observer, who is neither in the box or in the surrounding space finds that he observes one of his hours to last one hour inside the box and 1/2 hour in the surrounding space you have 3 observers not 2.

This introduction of an underlying 'absolute time or absolute space is a basic misconception about relativity that founders many an attempt to describe it.

Edited February 28, 2022 by studiot

[caracal]

I have one picture that could share here, it is quite simple, not very fancy, but it could clarify this 'equality principle' what i am talking about. I earlier decided to leave this picture and its description out , but maybe i just share it now. I may start to repeat myself here.

Lets imagine there is a space vessel that has 20 times faster time rate and that has contracted by factor 20 and lets imagine it is moving on the park. There is a space traveler inside of the space vessel.

According to equality principle, this space traveler thinks that everything is normal inside the space vessel - all laws of nature are normal inside of the vessel. 

Following is a description how space traveler inside the vessel observes outside and how a man who is walking in the park observes the space vessel. ( according to the deduction i have made)

The space traveler inside the vessel measures the changes in the outside of the vessel. The density of air is 20^4 = 160000 times smaller, the temperature of the sun is 300K and the temperature of air is 15K. He measures earth's gravity pull to be 0.5m/s^2. The mass of his vessel is 200kg and it has temperature 300 K. The density of the vessel is 3g/cm^3 The escape velocity on the surface of earth is 11.2km/s. The velocity of light is 300 000km/s everywhere.

There is outside observer who is walking in the park and notices this space vessel. What he sees in this space vessel if he sees that its time is moving 20 times faster than his own time, he might see a clock inside the space vessel and notices that it is counting seconds 20 times faster. The space traveler and space vessel and all matter in it seems to have size 20 times smaller. The space vessel has high mass: 40 000 kg and its density is 20^4 = 160 000 times higher - 480000 g/cm^3. But the vessel has 20 times more energy in its fuel. The temperature of the vessel is high, 6000 K. The temperature of the air in the park is 300 K. Sun seems to have temperature 6000 K. The escape velocity on the surface of earth is 11.2km/s. The velocity of light is 300 000km/s everywhere. Gravity pull on the surface of earth is 9.81m/s^2.

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by caracal

[studiot]

38 minutes ago, caracal said:

Lets imagine there is a space vessel that has 20 times faster time rate and that has contracted by factor 20 and lets imagine it is moving on the park. There is a space traveler inside of the space vessel.

Let us stop right there, because there is your problem in a nutshell.

Why is it 20 times ?

Why not 20.000000001 or 19.99999999999  ?

How does any observer determine when it is 20 times ?, because according to your hypothersis, this factor is continually changing.

[caracal]

(studiot) Let us stop right there, because there is your problem in a nutshell.

Why is it 20 times ?

Why not 20.000000001 or 19.99999999999  ?

How does any observer determine when it is 20 times ?, because according to your hypothersis, this factor is continually changing.

...I am not sure what you are going for, and this answer may be outside of what you are asking. 

I don't know what kind of other change, process or mechanism could change the space vessel such a way that it has 20 times faster time relative the time in the park and on the surface of earth. I only describe how it would look in the viewpoint of outside observer- the man in the park - if the time would run faster in the vessel and if it would have shorter lengths and other changes i described before.

But if the hypothesis is true that matter is changing over time and its time is accelerating in a way i described it, the following scenario would do it:

Lets keep the space vessel far away in space away from the sun's and earth's gravitation field. Then its time runs slightly faster than time of a clock on the surface of earth. Lets keep it there for a very long time. If matter is shrinking in the way i described it and the time is accelerating, it would eventually gain 'transformation difference' relative to the matter on earth L = 1/20. It would have 20 times faster time rate and it would have all lengths 20 times shorter and other changes i described above. If the hypothesis is right, the transformation difference would be 1+2.20*10^-18 1/s * time difference - that is just a fit to Hubble's law and this factor 2.20*10^-18 is a number that is close to Hubble constant, maybe it should be slightly more because gravity pulls matter together. This time difference may be hard to calculate if the space vessel has had more complex history.

In order to know what is the transformation difference of the matter in space vessel and how fast the time in the matter of the vessel runs relative to surrounding, the man in the park could just do measurement. could for example take a proton out of the vessel and weigth its mass. He could find out that the mass of that proton is 20 times greater than mass of the protons in the matter on the surface of earth. He could then conclude that the time of the space vessel must run 20 times faster than the time on the surrounding, on the surface of earth. He could measure also some characteristic time, like half-life of neutron in the matter of the space vessel and measure that this half-life is 20 times shorter than the half-life of neutron -He could pick and measure for example 100 000 neutrons in order to get their half-life.

I dont know, it may be that i start to write out of the point here.

Edited February 28, 2022 by caracal

[studiot]

1 hour ago, caracal said:

...I am not sure what you are going for, and this answer may be outside of what you are asking.

Thank you for your thoughts.

I am going to say +1.

Not because I think you are right, but because you are trying so very hard and holding what I consider to be a proper discussion.

 

OK where am I going ?

 

Consider this:

Let us consider time t' inside the spaceship and t outside.

Now let us consider when t is zero.

Why should t' be also zero ?

Zero is after all an arbitrary point in time t when we start the timing clock.
For instance t must have been running long before our thought experiment say 10,000 hours, perhaps forever.
So when we reset the t clock to zero when t reads 10,000,

What does the t' clock read ?

If both clocks were running at the same rate then the t' clock reads (t + h) hours where h is a constant difference btween them.

What now happens if you also apply the condition that t'/t = 20 , because the factor of 20 cannot be applied to the starting difference,  h.

 

[Markus Hanke]

17 hours ago, bangstrom said:

If time quickens, lengths grow shorter so locally length and time remain proportional to the value of c.

Since all changes in distance and time remain proportional to c there is no change in proportions that requires rescaling.

That makes no sense - if there’s no rescaling of size, there is no shrinking matter. You can’t have it both ways.

17 hours ago, bangstrom said:

How do you know if light has lengthened or if your standard for length has grown shorter?

One is physically possible, the other one isn’t.

14 hours ago, bangstrom said:

The expansion of spacetime is an assumption

It’s much more than an assumption - it’s a necessary consequence of the laws of gravity, which are exceedingly well tested.

14 hours ago, bangstrom said:

With either scenario the observations are identical

They are not. To give one example - metric expansion is a function of distance, so the further out you look, the higher recession velocities are. This is true for all directions. How do you replicate this with ‘shrinking matter’, which depends only on the local rate of shrinkage?

9 hours ago, caracal said:

I dont know what these coupling constants and lagrangians looks like, but if they
are dimensionless, i guess they stay dimensionless and changes in different properties 
in the formula cancel each other out

This is precisely the issue I’m pointing out to you - they do not cancel out. If you rescale, you end up with a different Lagrangian; this is why the idea doesn’t work. I’m not just claiming this for no reason - it can be mathematically shown that these interactions are not invariant under rescaling. We know this.

The only example of a real-world QFT that is actually invariant under rescaling would be QED without the presence of charged particles (ie sources are far away). Even full QED with coupling sources isn’t invariant under rescaling.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Markus Hanke

[swansont]

!

Moderator Note

Posts discussing cosmology in general have been split

https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/126746-gr-and-cosmology-split-from-…a-shrinking-matter-theory-that-might-actually-work/

 

 

[caracal]

banstrom is having his own conversation, i havent yet read it.

---
quote(swansont) "Not good enough. The Pauli exclusion principle is predicated on 
identical particles, not "only tiny differences"

If you are predicting differences between these particles, then they are not identical, 
and you are wrong."

What i have understood, the Pauli exclusion principle, is it coming from coulomb repulsion. If there were no
repulsion, the electrons could pack up much more closely, like neutrons can do. The exchange
force is not a independent force, it is what i understand depending from coulomb repulsion.
quantum fluctuations may make coulomb propulsion stronger or weaker or cause
tunneling effects, but without propulsion there is no exchange force and electron degenerate pressure. 
And pauli exclusion principle would be not present in atomic length scales. (That would propably mean that the electrons in matter
falls apart and becomes dust. )

Therefore unidentical electrons, what they would do, is that they could cause new kind 
of emission (and absorption) lines in atoms and molecules that could be observable?  (The termodynamic motion of atoms may
blur spectral lines thought.) Right?

what kind of variation this theory predicts among the matter on the surface of earth
, it is not clear to me at the moment.

But what left me thinking is - what is the experimental accuracy that electrons are identical? There must
be a limit in current experiments. This question is also a little more general interest to me, not only
because of my theory. This statement or theory that electrons are
identical is verified only by some experimental accuracy. If electrons have for 
example mass variety 1 +- 10^-26 , would it be in the range of measurements to see it
or for example 1 +- 10^-18 ? or say 1 +- 10^-32 ? I tried to find information on this 
question are electrons verified to be identical and in which accuracy, from e.g physics 
stack exchange where only qualitative answers was given.

The differences coming from this theory should be well observable in the cosmic ray and solar wind
particles. Has anybody actually collected and measured the mass of solar wind protons or cosmic
ray protons. Or their Electric charge? or that do particles generally change over time or from
place to place by some other ways for some reason? this may have not been done.

If i look to distant space with telescope and spectrometer and try to find different 
kind of matter there, in this theory, matter that is 'transformed' its spectral lines looks similar as a matter
that has redshift or blueshift because of doppler effect or time dilation. Therefore this matter may be mistaken as matter with doppler effect or time dilation.

Except that there may be somewhere ordinary atom nucleus that have one or more transformed electrons in its
orbitals or transformed nucleus with some ordinary electrons in its orbitals.

Quote(studiot)" What does the t' clock read ?

If both clocks were running at the same rate then the t' clock reads (t + h) hours
where h is a constant difference btween them.

What now happens if you also apply the condition that t'/t = 20 , because the factor 
of 20 cannot be applied to the starting difference,  h."

the t' clock would read... 

I am not sure yet what you are asking... But well if i make following thought experiment

if i concider that every proton can be thought as a clock. If two protons has been created in the big bang era and big bang is defined to have
time t = 0 for both of the protons, it depends which place it has
been what instant of time it would point after that. If the other proton has been traveling
in space at a velocity of light for long enough and then decelerated to for example
surface of earth at the present time, it may point only say few years when the other proton that has been on milky way and
the surface of earth would point about 13.8 Billion years. But if the time has been accelerating, the rough
estimate or linear approximation would be that time of proton on earth would run
1 + 13.8 Byrs * 0.0693 1/Byr = 1.9563 times faster than proton that was coming from space. or if
the acceleration is exponential then roughtly exp(13.8*0.0693) = 2.6022 times faster.

In that space vessel picture, If i reset both clock to have time t0 at some point of time and 
assume that the t' clock runs 20 times faster than clock t at the reset
of clocks
then at the reset
t = constant1
t'= constant2

constant1 and constant2 mean time after for example big bang according to space vessel
travelers clock and man's clock who is walking in the park. Then i assume that at some
point of time clock t' has started to run 20 times faster than clock t by some unknown
phenomenom.

then after one second of the t time
t = constant1 + 1s
t'= constant2 + 20s

The 'acceleration of elapsing proper time t' as a function of elapsing proper time t' - if it is fit to explain Hubble's law, would be 1 + 2.20*10^-18[1/s] * (t-t0)
That is a linear approximation. It is so small change during 20 seconds that i can neglect it.

If proper time is accelerating as a function of proper time itself such a way that if there were a clock that is not accelerating
at all - for example a star traveler that travels in a circle near speed of light
and he manages somehow to slow down, take a picture of the surrounding and then back
to accelerate. And he takes picture of environment say every hour according to
time in environment that was running certain way at the first lift-off moment, then according
to this kind of 'clock' the time of some accelerating clock runs like

t'-t0' = integral[t0->t] L(t)dt 

I could define 'a time that is not accelerating' that way like i did above.
 

(quote)(Markus Hanke) "This is precisely the issue I’m pointing out to you - 
they do not cancel out. If you rescale, you end up with a different Lagrangian; 
this is why the idea doesn’t work. I’m not just claiming this for no reason - 
it can be mathematically shown that these interactions are not invariant under
rescaling. We know this.

What do you mean by rescaling? is it change in lengths or length+time or 
change in several or arbitrary selection of physical units and properties?

I guess the unit of any Lagrangian is Joule in SI units? Or you say
it is more complex than that? In this theory, If it is Joule in SI units,
It should then change like LL'/LL = 1/L regardless of what terms does it contain.
(But this is the viewpoint of observer outside of the box. In the viewpoint 
of observer inside the box, it stay unchanged like all other things according to 
equality principle.)

.....
This may not be relevant,but: It looks like that if some quantity or its partial 
term is dimensionless in natural units that you were speaking of, it in this theory 
may not stay always unchanged.

According to wikipedia, the natural unit system seems to be a system where c, h/2pi, G , k_b are set 1. 
In my theory, according to my deduction these quantities change by following way:
c'/c = 1 h'/h = 1 k_b'/k_b = 1 but G'/G = L^2 -yes the gravitational constant should 
change. (actually i wasn't sure can i deduce from (GM)'/GM = L and m'/m = 1/L that
G'/G = L^2)

In particle physics, the natural unit system is where c, m_e, h/2pi and e0 is set 1
there other stay unchanged but the mass changes like m_e'/m_e = 1/L

and in QCD c = m_p = h/2pi = 1 and e_0 = 1 or 4pie_0 = 1
others stay unchanged but m_p'/m_p = 1/L

(Actually that is only so if Q'/Q = 1 and e_0'/e_0 = 1. I wasn't very sure whether it is for example
Q'/Q = 1/L and e_0'/e_0 = 1/L^2. But i deduced that (kQ1Q2)'/(kQ1Q2) = 1)

This means that if for example some formula term KK that is dimensionless in QCD natural units but
contains term 1/m_p , this term should change like KK'/KK = L . If KK contains
term m_p it should change like KK'/KK = 1/L and so on.

i picked this example equation for Lagrangian L = a/r^2 - b/r from your discussion with bangstrom. Is this a Lagrangian
in QCD natural units? if so, It may be that this term contains 1/m_p if its formula is expressed in SI units. But b does not contain
1/m_p. if it is so, then because m'/m = 1/LL and r'/r = L both terms would change like lag'/lag = 1/LL where LL is some factor. But this is the viewpoint
of outside observer. In the viewpoint of observer inside the box lagrangian like all
other things remain unchanged according to equality principle.

It could be that this applies to other Lagrangians in strong and weak force as well- there could be m_p hidden in the formula in some of the terms, if they are expressed in natural units.?

...

What if Coulomb law was something else more complex than just inverse square dependent 
of the distance? Then i couldn't deduce that (kQ1Q2)'/kQ1Q2 = 1 

I just repeat here how i get the equations of change for E,m,p,h,c:

I can deduce that E'/E = 1/L from the law for photon energy: E = hf and demanding h'/h =1 
and m'/m = 1/L and p'/p = 1/L from equation lambda = h/p and the F'/F = 1/L^2 
from Newton 2 Law F = ma. I also demand that c'/c = 1 when it has to be that s'/s = L and 
t'/t = L. Here what i do is that i demand certain laws of nature to hold. they are de Broglie equation,
Photon energy equation, Newtons 2nd law, that c'/c = 1 and h'/h = 1.

But back to the lagrangian,

I above already wrote this, but I remember that in classical mechanics the Lagrangian has unit Joule in the usual SI units. 
If the strong interaction lagrangian Lag has dimension J in SI units, then according to 
the equations of change what i deduced in section 2) Lag'/Lag = 1/L 
if it is measured or observed by observer who hasn't shrunk.

but if this lagrangian is measured by observer inside the box, that has shrunk, 
then according to equality principle that Lagrangian has not been changed at all.

The equality principle - it is the idea what i suggest in part 1 of the main text. I am
not sure if you have had a thought of it.

This idea i have is not only about accelerating time and shrinking of matter together 
with changes in other properties, it is also about equality principle.

This may be repeating. and i make a lot of text. 
I make here description of this principle:

I forgot to say that the idea for equality principle i got when i was thinking 
the principles of equivalence and relativity in the theories of relativity.

If there were a closed box and inside the box the time runs say 2 times faster than outside
of the box and there are also other changes, like all lengths have been shrunk by factor 1/2, all
energies and masses and momentum's have been increased by factor and other changes
what i have deduced in section 2 - relative to the outside of the box, then - the
equality principle states that if there were an observer inside of that box, and all
changes above have been happened to him as well, he cannot by any means whatsoever deduce
by looking any kind of things inside of the box, he cannot determine whether he has
been shrunk or whether he still is normal and no shrinking has happened. There is absolutely
no way to find out how small he is. That is the equality principle statement i have.

How this is possible? it could be that the spacetime or space changes or transforms such
a way that it is possible. Spacetime could be able to transform like a picture in projector
screen, and if there were some entity in that picture, he would not be aware of that
his picture has been transformed. But now not only the size of the things changes, but both
the time rate and the all lengths changes. And the entity
is not aware by any means that he has changed. He observes everything to be normal. The 
spacetime looks to be normal and nothing seems to be changed. 

While i may not be thinking enough while writing the above i have to say that maybe this 
equivalence principle can't be true for some reason. Maybe spacetime does not have this
kind of property that it can transform.

Comparison with equivalence principle and relativity principle:

It is somewhat similar principle than equivalence principle in the theory of general
relativity. What states that if there were an elevator in freefall in gravitational field,
the person inside of the elevator would think he is in a place where no force or acceleration
is moving the elevator. There is no way he can tell whether he is in freefall or just
levitating in space or moving at constant velocity. (well at least in very small area in the
gravitation field or in uniform gravitation field)

And it is somewhat similar than relativity principle in the special relativity. 
The observer who is moving at constant velocity inside an elevator, cannot by any means determine whether he is moving at
constant velocity or not. And also there is no absolute rest what Newton was thinking.

In 'certain way', if some physical object change its timerate and size and other properties by certain way
what i have described, it may be said that the physical object can have existence
in different 'scales'.

Observer inside that physical object, can't determine without looking outside, what is his scale.
He can have scale 1000 or 1/1000 relative to world outside - but he can't determine
which scale he has by doing measurements inside. It may be also that there exist no absolute scale at all. Some object
may have scale 1/100000000 or 100000000. For example there may be at least in principle
a proton that has scale 10000000 somewhere in the universe.

I could mention here this : How this change takes place is a bit different story. Matter should somehow adjust to the changes in lengths in order to shrink isotropically, otherwise it would disintegrate. It may be the strong binding forces and Quantum mechanical behavior that makes it possible. For example electron that has transformed, has shorter matter-wavelength, therefore it adjust to closer to nucleus in atom in order to keep its quantum wave in standing wave motion.

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by caracal

[studiot]

49 minutes ago, caracal said:

What i have understood, the Pauli exclusion principle, is it coming from coulomb repulsion. If there were no
repulsion, the electrons could pack up much more closely, like neutrons can do.

Neutrons also obey Pauli, as do some other fermions.

https://byjus.com/jee/pauli-exclusion-principle/

 

 

 

54 minutes ago, caracal said:

In that space vessel picture, If i reset both clock to have time t0 at some point of time and 
assume that the t' clock runs 20 times faster than clock t at the reset
of clocks
then at the reset
t = constant1
t'= constant2

constant1 and constant2 mean time after for example big bang according to space vessel
travelers clock and man's clock who is walking in the park. Then i assume that at some
point of time clock t' has started to run 20 times faster than clock t by some unknown
phenomenom.

then after one second of the t time
t = constant1 + 1s
t'= constant2 + 20s

 

That's exactly what it doesn't mean.

Place two clocks at each location.
Now reset one clock from each location to zero together.

After some period of time is the reading difference on the faster clock exactly 20 times the reading difference on the slower clock  ?

Hint it cannot be.