The second coming of Donald Trump: Can he become president again? | 60 Minutes Australia

[beecee]

20 minute long video.....

Amazing, terrifying, unbelievable!

 

 

[J.C.MacSwell]

The World didn't need him the first time.

[StringJunky]

Here's hoping one of his misdemeanors takes him out of circulation before then.

[CharonY]

Ehhhhh...... Wouldn't bet on it. I mean, if what happened is not disqualifying, then nothing is.

[StringJunky]

Operative word is 'hope'.

[John Cuthber]

He never won 50% of the vote.

He got in with a promise of building a wall, getting Mexico to pay and jailing Hillary.
He failed to do any of those things.

He really should be a complete wash-out. Even those who voted for him should realise that he was a con-man.
Interestingly, the Republican party still thinks he's their best hope.
They are probably right.
That says a lot.

It's interesting to compare him with Boris who won a "landslide " 42% on the promise of getting brexit done.

Still hasn't finished it.
Is considered by the Conservatives to be their best hope...

They are probably right.
That says a lot.

Edited March 16, 2022 by John Cuthber

[beecee]

I see some reality in the remarks from about 3 minutes to 6 minutes, and how he is drawn to the autocratic leaders in the world, like the Putins, the Kim Jung Un's, the Xi Jinping's. 

I just fail to see or understand how Americans cannot see through the fakery and incredible conceit of this meglomaniac, and how in hell he could ever get close to power again.

[StringJunky]

4 hours ago, beecee said:

I see some reality in the remarks from about 3 minutes to 6 minutes, and how he is drawn to the autocratic leaders in the world, like the Putins, the Kim Jung Un's, the Xi Jinping's. 

I just fail to see or understand how Americans cannot see through the fakery and incredible conceit of this meglomaniac, and how in hell he could ever get close to power again.

It  depends much on what media echo chambers you spend your time in. He has clearly motivated the less intellectually able  and naive, as well as those more able who see him as a vehicle for their own personal advancement. America is a big country with a lot of isolated people distributed thinly and not well-connected compared those those in the big cities.... he appeals to the former, it seems.

Edited March 17, 2022 by StringJunky

[CharonY]

15 hours ago, StringJunky said:

It  depends much on what media echo chambers you spend your time in. He has clearly motivated the less intellectually able  and naive, as well as those more able who see him as a vehicle for their own personal advancement. America is a big country with a lot of isolated people distributed thinly and not well-connected compared those those in the big cities.... he appeals to the former, it seems.

There is also the issue that there are a collections of folks who honestly believe that their way of life in danger from things like the white replacement, homosexual or liberal agendas and so on. To them, someone in a position of power and being openly bigoted validates their own believes, which have fallen out of public favour (or are considered non-PC, depending which vernacular you want to use). To them, a potato with a suit would be suitable candidate as long as it reflects these values, which they see under attack. This victim attitude creates an incredibly loyal group that have long decided that they do not need to be tethered to reality. Ultimately this group also managed to marginalize the reasonable folks in the GOP (i.e. those that can distinguish fact from fiction, even if they sometime pretend they don't).

 

[StringJunky]

4 hours ago, CharonY said:

There is also the issue that there are a collections of folks who honestly believe that their way of life in danger from things like the white replacement, homosexual or liberal agendas and so on. To those someone in a position of power and being openly bigoted validates their own believes, which have fallen out of public favour (or are considered non-PC, depending which vernacular you want to use). To those, a potato with a suit would be suitable candidate as long as it reflects these values, which they see under attack. This victim attitude creates an incredibly loyal group that have long decided that they do not need to be tethered to reality. Ultimately this group also managed to marginalize the reasonable folks in the GOP (i.e. those that can distinguish fact from fiction, even if they sometime pretend they don't).

 

Yes, they are still stuck in certain mindsets, where many people were in the UK pre-30-40 years ago. The more progressive people were called the 'Loony Left' iirc. It's  fear of the unknown.

Edited March 17, 2022 by StringJunky

[J.C.MacSwell]

17 hours ago, CharonY said:

There is also the issue that there are a collections of folks who honestly believe that their way of life in danger from things like the white replacement, homosexual or liberal agendas and so on. To those someone in a position of power and being openly bigoted validates their own believes, which have fallen out of public favour (or are considered non-PC, depending which vernacular you want to use). To those, a potato with a suit would be suitable candidate as long as it reflects these values, which they see under attack. This victim attitude creates an incredibly loyal group that have long decided that they do not need to be tethered to reality. Ultimately this group also managed to marginalize the reasonable folks in the GOP (i.e. those that can distinguish fact from fiction, even if they sometime pretend they don't).

 

Those people of course, if they vote at all, will support someone like Trump.

More of an issue is that the average voter isn't given a good alternative. They might be offered a better one, but despite how low the bar is...not much better.

[Endy0816]

DeSantis would be a marginal improvement but not sure if he can gain the EC votes(even assuming Florida's own).

[J.C.MacSwell]

DeSantis is at least capable of being wrong and yet not all about himself, all at the same time.

[StringJunky]

As long as it's not Kelly Loeffler or Marjorie Taylor Green.  Those two women are BSC... they'd sell their own mother.

[dimreepr]

The second coming of Donald Trump, is like the second coming of Jesus...

We all knew he'd be back...

History has taught us that much...

[TheVat]

41 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

As long as it's not Kelly Loeffler or Marjorie Taylor Green.  Those two women are BSC... they'd sell their own mother.

Greene is the reigning queen of BSC, imo, based on her psychotic stalking of fellow Congresswoman Alexandria Octavio-Cortez.  The mail slot incident was a notable low point.

I don't think Trump will run again.  His pro Putin ravings have whittled off enough of his base and distanced enough moderate Independents to render him nonviable in 2024.  The primary winner will be whoever is best at kissing Trump's ring while edging away from his more toxic views at the same time.

[Bufofrog]

43 minutes ago, TheVat said:

I don't think Trump will run again.

I can't envision him not running.  He can't let go of the fantasy that he was cheated out of the last election, so he needs to win the next one in his mind to prove he was right.  I think he will announce his candidacy right after the midterms.   

[StringJunky]

2 hours ago, TheVat said:

Greene is the reigning queen of BSC, imo, based on her psychotic stalking of fellow Congresswoman Alexandria Octavio-Cortez.  The mail slot incident was a notable low point.

I don't think Trump will run again.  His pro Putin ravings have whittled off enough of his base and distanced enough moderate Independents to render him nonviable in 2024.  The primary winner will be whoever is best at kissing Trump's ring while edging away from his more toxic views at the same time.

Like someone said to me recently: You can't polish a turd, but you can roll it in glitter.

[Arete]

Unpopular opinion: It doesn't matter. The same lobbyists and corporate interests own both major parties. The health insurance industry isn't going away, the banks aren't being meaningfully regulated, the military isn't being defunded, the oil industry isn't getting curtailed... 

While the January 6 riots were eye opening, does anyone really think it could have changed the election outcome - like if the crowd successfully held the capitol and prevented the certification of the election would it have had any long term effect? Personally I have trouble imagining a successful coup without the full support and cooperation of the military, which Trump certainly didn't have. There is trillions of dollars a year dependent on the political status quo of the US and I don't think that Trump had any realistic possibility of disrupting that. 

One of the "benefits" of Trump is that he's largely bluster and chest thumping, without the political clout or intelligence to effect meaningful change. His political ideology and agenda is incoherent, and has no ability to actually staff and effectively manage a government. So, while he is a disturbing symptom of a broader, problematic worldview that is prevalent in the US - which CharonY described in detail, he has very little ability or even motivation it would seem to do much more than performative symbolism. Hillary isn't in jail, there's no border wall, the affordable care act is still law, etc. 

So rather than a malignant growth, Trump is ultimately more like pustulent discharge - unpleasant and concerning, but a symptom rather than the cause of the infection. 

[iNow]

16 minutes ago, Arete said:

Unpopular opinion: It doesn't matter.

Another unpopular opinion: Trump would be better than many of the others. He and his cronies are mostly evil, but they're thankfully also mostly incompetent. Keystone cops comes to mind. Anyone with a bit more political skill, but with those same autocratic tendencies following the Trump model is likely to be far worse in terms of outcomes.

18 minutes ago, Arete said:

rather than a malignant growth, Trump is ultimately more like pustulent discharge - unpleasant and concerning, but a symptom rather than the cause of the infection. 

Completely agree. Trump worries me far less than the millions upon millions upon millions of people who think he's the best representation of them, even after having 5 years to learn what the man truly represents (i.e. they aren't just being fooled and hoodwinked into thinking he's a great businessman). 

[swansont]

5 hours ago, Arete said:

Unpopular opinion: It doesn't matter. The same lobbyists and corporate interests own both major parties.

I'd say it does matter, because by and large it's one party is repeating Kremlin talking points and subverting democracy, while the other isn't. That there isn't a clear distinction on some aspects of government, that doesn't extend to all aspects of government.

 

5 hours ago, Arete said:

So, while he is a disturbing symptom of a broader, problematic worldview that is prevalent in the US - which CharonY described in detail, he has very little ability or even motivation it would seem to do much more than performative symbolism. Hillary isn't in jail, there's no border wall, the affordable care act is still law, etc. 

These are the acute effects, but I worry about the long-term. I think we will be seeing the effect of TFG for some time, as things bubble through the courts. Roe v Wade is likely to be gone soon, and that won't be the end of it. All because of justices he appointed.

[beecee]

2 hours ago, iNow said:

Completely agree. Trump worries me far less than the millions upon millions upon millions of people who think he's the best representation of them, even after having 5 years to learn what the man truly represents (i.e. they aren't just being fooled and hoodwinked into thinking he's a great businessman). 

Agreed, hence my comment earlier...

On 3/17/2022 at 7:08 AM, beecee said:

I just fail to see or understand how Americans cannot see through the fakery and incredible conceit of this meglomaniac, and how in hell he could ever get close to power again.

 

[TheVat]

3 hours ago, Arete said:

Unpopular opinion: It doesn't matter. The same lobbyists and corporate interests own both major parties. The health insurance industry isn't going away, the banks aren't being meaningfully regulated, the military isn't being defunded, the oil industry isn't getting curtailed... 

While the January 6 riots were eye opening, does anyone really think it could have changed the election outcome - like if the crowd successfully held the capitol and prevented the certification of the election would it have had any long term effect? Personally I have trouble imagining a successful coup without the full support and cooperation of the military, which Trump certainly didn't have. There is trillions of dollars a year dependent on the political status quo of the US and I don't think that Trump had any realistic possibility of disrupting that. 

One of the "benefits" of Trump is that he's largely bluster and chest thumping, without the political clout or intelligence to effect meaningful change. His political ideology and agenda is incoherent, and has no ability to actually staff and effectively manage a government. So, while he is a disturbing symptom of a broader, problematic worldview that is prevalent in the US - which CharonY described in detail, he has very little ability or even motivation it would seem to do much more than performative symbolism. Hillary isn't in jail, there's no border wall, the affordable care act is still law, etc. 

 

While there is much truth there regarding TFGs competence, I fear you may underestimate the power of an angry monkey with a big box of wrenches that it can hurl into a large delicate piece of machinery.  Appointment of incompetent and/or corrupt cabinet members, larding science-based agencies with partisan kooks and science deniers, tilting the balance of federal courts and (as @swansontnoted) the SCOTUS, ripping up carefully wrought treaties and other overseas relationships, abandoning Green programs and initiatives that need multi term momentum to succeed, etc.  (a very short sampling of governance mayhem)  While I agree more competent sabotage could be worse (as @iNow suggested), and RWers like DeSantis or Rick Scott (google his mean-spirited Rescue American Plan) are fearsome to contemplate in the Oval,  TFGs flailing around could be pretty disastrous.

And next time around, there might not be a Mark Milley or a James Mattis to step in at key moments and deflect those tossed wrenches.  

 

[beecee]

Didn't think it was worth another thread....................

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/judge-slams-trump-charlatan-jury-finds-jan-rioter/story?id=84090253

Judge slams Trump as 'charlatan' after jury finds Jan. 6 rioter guilty on all counts

A federal judge in D.C. on Thursday delivered a scathing rebuke of former President Donald Trump and expressed dismay over the state of American politics just moments after a jury found a defendant charged in the Jan. 6 Capitol riot guilty on all charges.

"You know, I think our democracy is in trouble," Judge Reggie Walton said at the conclusion of the third jury trial for a defendant charged in the Capitol assault. "Because unfortunately, we have charlatans like our former president, who doesn't in my view really care about democracy, but only about power. And as a result of that, it's tearing this country apart."

 

[dimreepr]

Whatever it is, it's infectious, first Britain and look how close France are to suffering the same way...