Mostly OT stuff from Was there a real Jesus of Nazareth ?

[Dropship]

On 1/15/2022 at 3:24 PM, mistermack said:

...I just stopped accepting that Jesus was a god...

Good for you mate, Jesus made it clear many times that he wasn't God, yet there are still many so-called "christians" around who insist he WAS God, in effect calling him a fibber!

Check what JC said-
"Why do you call me good? Only God is good" (Luke 18:19)
"Only God knows when judgment day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)
"I say nothing of my own accord, I only say what my father tells me to say.." (John 12:49)
And God himself said - "This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased" (Matt 3:17)
And of course Jesus regularly prayed to God,  yet if he was God why would he pray to himself?..:)
 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Dropship

[Peterkin]

18 minutes ago, Dropship said:

yet there are still many so-called "christians" around who insist he WAS God, in effect calling him a fibber!

Like the entire Holy Roman Church with their trinity doctrine? They're not calling anybody anything. They're affirming that Jesus, during his life on Earth, was a mortal man (and thus, telling the simple truth in those chronicles), he was also the son of their God, and therefore, once he had ascended to his rightful kingdom in Heaven, he partakes of godhood forevermore, and therefore is God. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Peterkin

[Dropship]

5 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

Like the entire Holy Roman Church with their trinity doctrine? They're not calling anybody anything. They're affirming that Jesus, during his life on Earth, was a mortal man (and thus, telling the simple truth in those chronicles), he was also the son of their God, and therefore, once he had ascended to his rightful kingdom in Heaven, he partakes of godhood forevermore. 

 

The 'Trinity' thing is just something cooked up by the catholic church; the word isn't even in the bible..:)

PS- Last month in a "Christian" forum I posted those quotes of Jesus saying he wasn't God but it upset them so they deleted my post and I walked out, I suppose they can't handle the truth..:)

Edited March 10, 2022 by Dropship

[Peterkin]

1 hour ago, Dropship said:

The 'Trinity' thing is just something cooked up by the catholic church;

So is Christianity and so is the Bible.

Truth-handling-wise, a little information goes farther than a little snit. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Peterkin

[Dropship]

3 hours ago, Peterkin said:

So is Christianity and so is the Bible.

Truth-handling-wise, a little information goes farther than a little snit. 

Think outside the box mate, the Bible is a fascinating chronicle of human encounters between humans and offworld beings over thousands of years...:)

On 1/15/2022 at 3:24 PM, mistermack said:

Was there a real Jesus of Nazareth ?

 

Yup, Jesus was too BIG to have been a myth, he was seen by thousands of eyeballs..:)

"Jesus went through all the towns and villages" (Matt 9:35)

[Peterkin]

1 hour ago, Dropship said:

Think outside the box mate, the Bible is a fascinating chronicle of human encounters between humans and offworld beings over thousands of years...:)

That's outside the box, all right; in fact, right off the reservation. 

[Dropship]

After JC was executed and the first gospels were written, nobody- not a single person- from the priests or Romans or people dared come forward to say "Baloney, he never existed".

That's because they knew they'd just be making fools of themselves because he was seen by countless thousands of people, heck he was almost as big as Elvis and the similarities are uncanny..:)

"And the people all tried to touch Jesus, because power was coming from him" (Luke 6:19)
 

[swansont]

10 hours ago, Dropship said:

After JC was executed and the first gospels were written, nobody- not a single person- from the priests or Romans or people dared come forward to say "Baloney, he never existed".

And of course you have evidence to show that nobody did this. 

[Dropship]

3 hours ago, swansont said:

And of course you have evidence to show that nobody did this. 

 

The snooty priests and Romans and their lackeys could have tried to crush early christianity  by pinning up proclamations on walls saying "That Jesus bloke never existed", but as far as we know, no such paperwork has been produced.

It's like somebody today writing a book titled "Elvis Never Existed", he'd never make it fly because Elv was seen and heard by too many eyewitnesses, right Elv?

"Uh-huh"

Edited March 11, 2022 by Dropship

[swansont]

1 hour ago, Dropship said:

as far as we know, no such paperwork has been produced.

1. As far as we know how far is that

2. Paperwork? Paper didn't exist at that time. The literacy rate was what, 15%? Would the average person have been aware?

How much documentation exists about any action from that era? 

[exchemist]

22 hours ago, Dropship said:

Good for you mate, Jesus made it clear many times that he wasn't God, yet there are still many so-called "christians" around who insist he WAS God, in effect calling him a fibber!

Check what JC said-
"Why do you call me good? Only God is good" (Luke 18:19)
"Only God knows when judgment day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)
"I say nothing of my own accord, I only say what my father tells me to say.." (John 12:49)
And God himself said - "This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased" (Matt 3:17)
And of course Jesus regularly prayed to God,  yet if he was God why would he pray to himself?..:)
 

 

 

Mark 13:32 in my translation says: "But as for that day or hour, nobody knows it, neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son; no one but the Father."  And he prays to the father on various occasions. So there is a clear father/son relationship implied and sometimes stated explicitly. So we have the start of the idea of the Trinity.

The question of whether that makes Jesus divine is slightly different, it is true, but we already see it dimly in the prologue to St. John's gospel where Christ is identified with the Word -  the "logos", which , it is implied, is the means of God's action in the world, including the creation itself. 

Perhaps you think John the Evangelist, whoever he was, was a "Catholic"?  

Edited March 11, 2022 by exchemist

[Dropship]

6 hours ago, exchemist said:

Mark 13:32 in my translation says: "But as for that day or hour, nobody knows it, neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son; no one but the Father."  And he prays to the father on various occasions. So there is a clear father/son relationship implied and sometimes stated explicitly. So we have the start of the idea of the Trinity.

The question of whether that makes Jesus divine is slightly different, it is true, but we already see it dimly in the prologue to St. John's gospel where Christ is identified with the Word -  the "logos", which , it is implied, is the means of God's action in the world, including the creation itself. 

Perhaps you think John the Evangelist, whoever he was, was a "Catholic"?  

 

When Jesus asked his disciples who they thought he was, Simon Peter answered-

“You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven." (Matt 13:16/17)

See, Jesus didn't then say "Wrong answer, try again", therefore SP got it right by saying "you're the Son of God"..:)

 

7 hours ago, swansont said:

1. As far as we know how far is that

2. Paperwork? Paper didn't exist at that time. The literacy rate was what, 15%? Would the average person have been aware?

How much documentation exists about any action from that era? 

When christianity began snowballing in popularity after Jesus's execution, the Jewish priests and the Romans said -  "Oops better not let on it was us who killed him, quick shred all the documents implicating us or we'll have a Jesusgate scandal on our hands. Let's airbrush him out of history and start hassling christians, and people will soon quickly forget about him"..
Nevertheless 27 books did slip through the net and get published as the New Testament..:)
 

[beecee]

7 hours ago, swansont said:

How much documentation exists about any action from that era? 

The age of mythical obscurity.

[swansont]

1 hour ago, Dropship said:

Nevertheless 27 books did slip through the net and get published as the New Testament..:)

And you’re better off pointing to evidence that exists than trying to prove a negative.

[Dropship]

13 hours ago, swansont said:

And you’re better off pointing to evidence that exists than trying to prove a negative.

2000 years from now some people might be saying "Elvis never existed", but there'll be plenty of surviving books around to prove them wrong, same as the 27 books of the New Testament..:)

[swansont]

25 minutes ago, Dropship said:

2000 years from now some people might be saying "Elvis never existed", but there'll be plenty of surviving books around to prove them wrong, same as the 27 books of the New Testament..:)

And you’re missing the point. You won’t be able to easily find documentation from the 21st century of people saying Elvis didn’t exist, even if people claimed it.

[Dropship]

Jesus had a huge fan following-

 "Large crowds from Galilee, the Ten Cities, Jerusalem, Judea and the region across the Jordan followed him" (Matt 4:25),
And he pulled crowds of over 5000 and 4000 at two gigs alone (Matt 14:13, Matt 15:32)

His run-ins with the snooty priests were a huge talking point among the people-

High Priest- "Jesus of Nazareth alias the Messiah, the Christ and the Son of God, you stand accused of upsetting us real bad, how do you plead?"

Jesus- "On yer bike Jack!"

[Bufofrog]

18 minutes ago, Dropship said:

Jesus had a huge fan following-

Maybe, maybe not.  The only mention of this is in a religious text so it is no where near a historical fact.

[Dropship]

If there are any Jews in this forum, no wonder they don't like Jesus..:)

He also went around rescuing naughty girls from stone throwing mobs, presumably we all like girls here..;)

"On yer bikes, she's with me! Hold your head up baby"

"Thanks JC, shall we go for a pizza?"

Edited March 12, 2022 by Dropship

[exchemist]

9 minutes ago, Dropship said:

If there are any Jews in this forum, no wonder they don't like Jesus..:)

He also went around rescuing naughty girls from stone throwing mobs, presumably we all like girls here..;)

"On yer bikes, she's with me! Hold your head up baby"

"Thanks JC, shall we go for a pizza?"

This is becoming tiresome. Can you drop the facetiousness and make a serious point, if you have one to make? 

[Dropship]

6 minutes ago, exchemist said:

This is becoming tiresome. Can you drop the facetiousness and make a serious point, if you have one to make? 

O God please make me funny (sniffle)..

[Bufofrog]

39 minutes ago, Dropship said:

If there are any Jews in this forum, no wonder they don't like Jesus..:)

Why would a Jew care one way or the other about Jesus?

39 minutes ago, Dropship said:

He also went around rescuing naughty girls from stone throwing mobs, presumably we all like girls here..;)

So you are assuming there are only men on this forum, or are you assuming people like other people?

[Dropship]

2 hours ago, Bufofrog said:

Why would a Jew care one way or the other about Jesus?

 

Well they killed JC and have been badmouthing him ever since and are no doubt sweating buckets now lest they end up on the naughty step..:)

[beecee]

4 hours ago, Dropship said:

2000 years from now some people might be saying "Elvis never existed", but there'll be plenty of surviving books around to prove them wrong, same as the 27 books of the New Testament..:)

2000 years from now, there may still be recordings of one sort or another of Elvis, along with reputable accounts of his existence and talents.

On the other hand the bible is a collection of short stories and fairy tales, written in an obscure manner, from an obscure age, by equally obscure men. Sadly we have no reputable account of those times, other then archaeological finds.

[Bufofrog]

19 minutes ago, Dropship said:

Well they killed JC

That is not fact, that account is in only one text that also has accounts of the supernatural and as such is suspect.

19 minutes ago, Dropship said:

and have been badmouthing him ever since

I have never publicly or privately heard any Jew bad mouth Jesus.  This seems to be some made up antisemitic hogwash. 

Edited March 12, 2022 by Bufofrog