Mostly OT stuff from Was there a real Jesus of Nazareth ?

[Dropship]

5 minutes ago, Bufofrog said:

That is not fact, that account is in only one text that also has accounts of the supernatural and as such is suspect..

 

The Jewish priests and Romans were in cahoots mate, it went like this-

PILATE - "I find Jesus not guilty"
PRIESTS - "Whoa bub, he said he was a King so that makes him guilty of treason against your Caesar who's the only true king. If you let a traitor off the hook it'll look bad on your military record and you'll end up slopping out the latrines in the Colosseum"..
PILATE - "Hmm yes, okay I'd better sign the death warrant to cover my ass"

--------------------------------------------------------------------

"And Pilate said unto them the third time, Why, what evil has he done? I have found no cause of death in him: I will therefore whip him, and let him go. 
And they were instant with loud voices, requiring that he might be crucified. And the voices of them and of the chief priests prevailed. 
And Pilate gave sentence that it should be as they required." (Luke 23:22-24)
 

[Bufofrog]

2 hours ago, Dropship said:

The Jewish priests and Romans were in cahoots mate, it went like this-

PILATE - "I find Jesus not guilty"
PRIESTS - "Whoa bub, he said he was a King so that makes him guilty of treason against your Caesar who's the only true king. If you let a traitor off the hook it'll look bad on your military record and you'll end up slopping out the latrines in the Colosseum"..
PILATE - "Hmm yes, okay I'd better sign the death warrant to cover my ass"

What is your evidence that this actually occurred?

[exchemist]

3 hours ago, Dropship said:

 

Well they killed JC and have been badmouthing him ever since and are no doubt sweating buckets now lest they end up on the naughty step..:)

Apart from being both false and potentially offensive to Jews, what you have written is obviously foolish. Since Jews do not believe in the divinity of Christ, they would not be bothered by Christian threats of punishment for disbelieving.  

[Dropship]

The snooty Jewish priests never liked JC-

1- "Just you stick with me chum"

2- "Thanks JC, you're my main man"

3- "Hey kiddo why do you bother talking to commoners like him?"

4- "If you're looking for trouble Charlie, you've come to the right place"

5- "My dad's got your number!"

6- "Now get on your bikes and 'oppit!"

55 minutes ago, Bufofrog said:

What is your evidence that this actually occurred?

Logic it out mate, why would anybody sit down and write the gospels and risk getting thrown to the lions? Motive?

Edited March 12, 2022 by Dropship

[Bufofrog]

1 hour ago, Dropship said:

Logic it out mate, why would anybody sit down and write the gospels and risk getting thrown to the lions? Motive?

I don't know why they wrote the gospels. 

The bible is your evidence?  That is not evidence.

[Endy0816]

1 hour ago, Dropship said:

The snooty Jewish priests never liked JC-

1- "Just you stick with me chum"

2- "Thanks JC, you're my main man"

3- "Hey kiddo why do you bother talking to commoners like him?"

4- "If you're looking for trouble Charlie, you've come to the right place"

5- "My dad's got your number!"

6- "Now get on your bikes and 'oppit!"

Logic it out mate, why would anybody sit down and write the gospels and risk getting throw to the lions? Motive

There are a number of different religious texts out there. Whoever wrote them may have believed them factual, but that isn't something we can trust. At the very least they've been copied and recopied to different languages with inevitable errors and changes.

 

We need something like the Roman tax records, mention of him in other texts or well a body(could be problematic).

The closest we have are some lines possibly by Josephus, a Jewish historian in regards.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus

 

Keep in mind the main post-Christ bits in the Bible took place over a 300 year span. The persecutions weren't constant and conversions while relatively fast still took awhile.

[Dropship]

2 hours ago, Endy0816 said:

There are a number of different religious texts out there...At the very least they've been copied and recopied to different languages with inevitable errors and changes.

Wait a min!

On the one hand some people say the Bible has been censored, edited and tidied up to make it look good, then on the other hand some are saying it's full of contradictions!

Wish they'd make up their mind..:

[exchemist]

5 hours ago, Dropship said:

Wait a min!

On the one hand some people say the Bible has been censored, edited and tidied up to make it look good, then on the other hand some are saying it's full of contradictions!

Wish they'd make up their mind..:

Both can easily be the case.

Obviously. 

[J.C.MacSwell]

7 hours ago, Dropship said:

Wait a min!

On the one hand some people say the Bible has been censored, edited and tidied up to make it look good, then on the other hand some are saying it's full of contradictions!

Wish they'd make up their mind..:

Some insist it's black...others claim it's white...most at a glance might call it grey.

I wish they would make up their mind.

[Endy0816]

9 hours ago, Dropship said:

Wait a min!

On the one hand some people say the Bible has been censored, edited and tidied up to make it look good, then on the other hand some are saying it's full of contradictions!

Wish they'd make up their mind..:

Well only some material was dermed canonical.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infancy_gospels

Then the copy, recopy, translate, copy cycle continued on from there. Political leaders were involved at various points as well in the process.

Edited March 13, 2022 by Endy0816

[Dropship]

On 3/13/2022 at 1:15 PM, Endy0816 said:

Well only some material was dermed canonical.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infancy_gospels

Then the copy, recopy, translate, copy cycle continued on from there. Political leaders were involved at various points as well in the process.

 

The New Testament is very anti-political and anti-world in places, but nobody dared to edit it out, for example Paul said-

"..our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil.." (Ephesians 6:12)
 

 

On 3/13/2022 at 11:46 AM, J.C.MacSwell said:

Some insist it's black...others claim it's white...most at a glance might call it grey.

I wish they would make up their mind.

 

Various "christian" cults and sects like distorting the bible but they can't get under the radar..:)

"Ignorant people distort things, to their own destruction" (2 Peter 3:16/17)

 "If anyone preaches a perverted gospel they're accursed" (Galatians 1:6-9)

Hence Jesus's reminder-

"You have one teacher, me" (Matthew 23:10)
 

 

Edited March 16, 2022 by Dropship

[exchemist]

2 hours ago, Dropship said:

 

 

"Ignorant people distort things, to their own destruction" (2 Peter 3:16/17)

 "If anyone preaches a perverted gospel they're accursed" (Galatians 1:6-9)

Hence Jesus's reminder-

"You have one teacher, me" (Matthew 23:10)
 

 

So if Jesus is the only teacher, why do Christians quote the Epistles of Ss Peter and Paul as well, as if they also have authority? 

[Dropship]

3 hours ago, exchemist said:

So if Jesus is the only teacher, why do Christians quote the Epistles of Ss Peter and Paul as well, as if they also have authority? 

 

Because they're singing from the same song sheet as Jesus..:)

[exchemist]

13 hours ago, Dropship said:

 

Because they're singing from the same song sheet as Jesus..:)

Who determined that?

[Dropship]

3 hours ago, exchemist said:

Who determined that?

Well Paul said "Follow Jesus not me, I wasn't crucified for you" (1 Corinthians 1:12-13), and when one early christian group began straying from the teachings of Jesus he told them "I'm coming to bust your asses" (2 Corinthians 13:2)

so his integrity was pretty good..:)

[dimreepr]

23 hours ago, Dropship said:

Various "christian" cults and sects like distorting the bible but they can't get under the radar..:)

"Ignorant people distort things, to their own destruction" (2 Peter 3:16/17)

 "If anyone preaches a perverted gospel they're accursed" (Galatians 1:6-9)

Hence Jesus's reminder-

"You have one teacher, me" (Matthew 23:10)

If you have only one teacher, your thrall is with me...

[exchemist]

15 minutes ago, Dropship said:

Well Paul said "Follow Jesus not me, I wasn't crucified for you" (1 Corinthians 1:12-13), and when one early christian group began straying from the teachings of Jesus he told them "I'm coming to bust your asses" (2 Corinthians 13:2)

so his integrity was pretty good..:)

Didn't stop him making up stuff Jesus never said, though, did it? 

[Dropship]

18 minutes ago, exchemist said:

Didn't stop him making up stuff Jesus never said, though, did it? 

But what would have been Paul's motive for making things up?

 

[zapatos]

12 minutes ago, Dropship said:

But what would have been Paul's motive for making things up?

 

Money? Influence? Power? All the usual stuff.

Also, a lack of real things to document is a motive for making things up.

[exchemist]

19 minutes ago, Dropship said:

But what would have been Paul's motive for making things up?

 

Search me. But he did. There are some things that have made it into Christianity that come from St Paul and are mentioned nowhere in the gospels. A classic example is the Christian disapproval of anything to do with sex. 

[Dropship]

53 minutes ago, zapatos said:

Money? Influence? Power? All the usual stuff.

Also, a lack of real things to document is a motive for making things up.

Saul already had a good job as a powerful bounty hunter on the payroll of the jewish priests, tasked with rounding up christians for punishment but then he saw the light, changed his name to Paul and became a fugitive on the run from the priests and Romans, what a man..:)

Paul wrote- "I have worked much harder, been in prison more frequently, been flogged more severely, and been exposed to death again and again.
Five times I received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one.
Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, I spent a night and a day in the open sea, 
I have been constantly on the move. I have been in danger from rivers, in danger from bandits, in danger from my own countrymen, in danger from Gentiles, in danger in the city, in danger in the country, in danger at sea, and in danger from false brothers. 
I have laboured and toiled and have often gone without sleep, I have known hunger and thirst and have often gone without food; I have been cold and naked. 
Besides everything else, I face daily the pressure of my concern for all the churches" (2 Cor 11:23-29) 
 

46 minutes ago, exchemist said:

..There are some things that have made it into Christianity that come from St Paul and are mentioned nowhere in the gospels. A classic example is the Christian disapproval of anything to do with sex. 

Wait a min, Christianity has no beef with warm, loving sex..:)

Jesus sad "Anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:28)
Paul said "Control yourselves honourably, not in lust like the heathens" (1 Thessalonians 4:4/5)

Heck, even Jesus cut girls a lot of slack, like when he said to the snooty priests-

"Prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you" (Matthew 21:31)

Below: JC rescues a naughty girl from a stone-throwing mob-

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

If you have only one teacher, your thrall is with me..

If you can do stuff like JC did below, you'll become a chat show star..:)

"Come on out of there Lazarus mate"

Edited March 17, 2022 by Dropship

[swansont]

!

Moderator Note

This has been mostly off-topic for a while, and I just don’t have the bandwidth to filter the tiny bit of wheat from the chaff.

Thus it’s all chaff, and to the trash it goes.