Validity of the claim that Will Smith "could've killed" Chris Rock

[ScienceNostalgia101]

On 4/2/2022 at 1:18 PM, Peterkin said:

What? You mean the schoolchildren of the entire world have never before seen anyone hit anyone else?

And now that they have discovered the joy of slapping, they will indulge it henceforth?

Children's shows usually condemn slapping. (Unless an old lady is slapping Rainbow Dash, in which case it's played for laughs because an old lady is doing it. And also, because she was shoved by Rainbow Dash across the street against her will; albeit on the false premise that she wanted to cross the street; not sure if that makes it self-defense.)

 

A beloved celebrity slapping a not-as-beloved celebrity (well, at least beforehand) and not only going unprosecuted for it but having multiple public figures imply it's acceptable to use violence over words is going to make teachers' jobs a lot more difficult in the coming days, if not weeks.

 

Just imagine the scenario. "But Miss! He made a joke about her baldness! If Will Smith can slap people for that, why can't I?"

[Peterkin]

5 hours ago, ScienceNostalgia101 said:

Children's shows usually condemn slapping. (Unless an old lady is slapping Rainbow Dash, in which case it's played for laughs because an old lady is doing it.

So, children's shows send mixed messages about violence and its justification. And children, especially school-aged boys, never watch anything less benign than My Little Pony. And children the world over are sweetly, blissfully unaware of war, terror, persecution, dangerous border crossings, refugee internment and domestic violence. But they do watch the incredibly boring Academy Awards ceremony and do understand a passing reference by a fast-talking comic to a movie they've never heard of and wouldn't have been allowed to see. That's what will influence them.

5 hours ago, ScienceNostalgia101 said:

"But Miss! He made a joke about her baldness! If Will Smith can slap people for that, why can't I?"

And this will become a frequent occurrence in classrooms the world over.

I pity the teachers, but blame the parents. Shouldn't let the small ones stay up so late.  

[mistermack]

Chris Rock was a pussy cat at the Oscars.

Ricky Gervaise did the same job at the Golden Globes, and to be honest, I did find one of his jokes a little close to the bone : 

 

 

[Phi for All]

6 hours ago, Intoscience said:

I was just saying, as it seems to me some people are focusing on the joke as if to justify Will's actions.

Is this true? I don't think pointing out the insensitivity of the joke is an attempt to justify the violence of the response. It's not even trying to mitigate it. I'd like to think it's an attempt to heal multiple harms done within the population over time. Why else spend so much time on celebrity gossip, right?

[Peterkin]

6 minutes ago, mistermack said:

Chris Rock was a pussy cat at the Oscars.

Ricky Gervaise did the same job at the Golden Globes, and to be honest, I did find one of his jokes a little close to the bone : 

And little children are unlikely to be interested in, or understand, either.

(But I have to admit, I'm not sure I could depend on my own equanimity in the same room with Gervaise. So I just won't go there. ) 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Peterkin
I missed a boat there.

[mistermack]

It's no wonder there are so many school massacres :

 

16 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

(But I have to admit, I'm not sure I could depend on my own equanimity in the same room with Gervaise. So I just won't go there. ) 

No sense of humour. That's your trouble.

[Peterkin]

41 minutes ago, mistermack said:

No sense of humour. That's your trouble.

Must be.

[iNow]

7 hours ago, ScienceNostalgia101 said:

Children's shows usually condemn slapping. <...> Just imagine the scenario. "But Miss! He made a joke about her baldness! If Will Smith can slap people for that, why can't I?"

I'd rather imagine an internet where people don't make such ridiculous and false claims.

 

 

 

[MigL]

After all the crap that's come out after 'slap-gate', I have come to almost feel sorry for Will Smith.

I recently saw a clip from a Red Table ( Jada P Smith's show ) episode, where she and Will calmly discuss her infidelity while Will does his best to keep smiling.
On TV, mind ou.
Is there no end to this woman's self-centered narcissism ?

And his idiot son ( Jayden, named after his mother , how appropriate ) commenting on social media "And that's how we do it".

Best course of action for Will, is to be like the 'stereotypical black American father' and abandon his family.
( just kidding; I'm with Chris Rock, and believe we should be able to laugh at our shortcomings and challenges )

And then I remember I don't really care about Hollywood types ...

[ScienceNostalgia101]

To be fair, it's possible to be okay with infidelity and still care even about someone who gets her needs met elsewhere when you fail to meet them. We have common ancestry with bonobos, after all.

 

I think stronger evidence that Will's indignation was fake is in the fact that:

 

A: This is the same guy who has joked about alopecia himself.

 

B: He laughed until his wife glared at him.

 

. . .

 

Anyway, I forgot to consider Looney Tunes (I've actually in multiple debates on other sites invoked it as an example of double standards around cartoony vs. realistic violence; we go easier on content that sugar-coats the consequences of violence than content that bluntly portrays it, when quite frankly it should be the other way around; come to think of it that might be worth making its own thread for) but it's a little at odds with stuff that's often encouraged by parents; and insisted on by assertive parents; like Arthur, or Magic School Bus. In any case, it's pretty obvious that The Simpsons was expressly not intended for children; they just watched it anyway because they assumed everything colourful was meant for them, and parents either couldn't or wouldn't stop them.

 

In any case, cartoons that are expressly fictitious and play violence for laughs are a tad different from a real-life grown man going unpunished for engaging in real-life violence.

[Intoscience]

17 hours ago, Phi for All said:

Is this true? I don't think pointing out the insensitivity of the joke is an attempt to justify the violence of the response. It's not even trying to mitigate it. I'd like to think it's an attempt to heal multiple harms done within the population over time. Why else spend so much time on celebrity gossip, right?

I don't know, maybe some folk that support Will might think so. It just "seemed" to me that's all. 

Will has obviously got personal issues and the out burst could well be (likely) part of his frustration. All I was saying is that the joke (in my opinion) did not justify Will's reaction. Where others may feel the slap was deserving, or at least understandable due to Chris's "insulting" remarks.

But the matter is, Chris was just doing his job and Will was out of order. Lets face it, would people even be questioning the joke if Will hadn't reacted the way he did? I think not.   

15 hours ago, MigL said:

After all the crap that's come out after 'slap-gate', I have come to almost feel sorry for Will Smith.

I recently saw a clip from a Red Table ( Jada P Smith's show ) episode, where she and Will calmly discuss her infidelity while Will does his best to keep smiling.
On TV, mind ou.
Is there no end to this woman's self-centered narcissism ?

And his idiot son ( Jayden, named after his mother , how appropriate ) commenting on social media "And that's how we do it".

Best course of action for Will, is to be like the 'stereotypical black American father' and abandon his family.
( just kidding; I'm with Chris Rock, and believe we should be able to laugh at our shortcomings and challenges )

And then I remember I don't really care about Hollywood types ...

+1, Will appeared to be laughing quite calmly at Chris's jokes including the one aimed at Jada until he saw her reaction. This then sparked his reaction, maybe this was an attempt by Will to prove something to Jada? 

[Phi for All]

7 hours ago, Intoscience said:

But the matter is, Chris was just doing his job and Will was out of order. Lets face it, would people even be questioning the joke if Will hadn't reacted the way he did? I think not.

I think you're completely wrong here, because there were a LOT of folks who had Jada's reaction.

And as far as "just doing his job" goes, I'll ask you to think about this. What if Will had stood up just the way he did, walked up on stage just the way he did, but instead of acting like an animal and striking a fellow human, imagine if he used his words instead, and said, "Shame on your hypocrisy, joking about a black woman's medical condition! If you can't be an ally, Chris Rock, then keep my wife's name out of your fucking mouth!"? Rock would have had the choice then to acknowledge him or treat him like another heckler. Either way, this situation would have a better framework for discussion. Without the slap, it's more about whether comedians should be encouraged to make fun of medical conditions or not. Without the slap, it's just Chris Rock trying to justify why he in particular would joke about a black woman's hair in the first place.

[Intoscience]

16 hours ago, Phi for All said:

I think you're completely wrong here, because there were a LOT of folks who had Jada's reaction.

And as far as "just doing his job" goes, I'll ask you to think about this. What if Will had stood up just the way he did, walked up on stage just the way he did, but instead of acting like an animal and striking a fellow human, imagine if he used his words instead, and said, "Shame on your hypocrisy, joking about a black woman's medical condition! If you can't be an ally, Chris Rock, then keep my wife's name out of your fucking mouth!"? Rock would have had the choice then to acknowledge him or treat him like another heckler. Either way, this situation would have a better framework for discussion. Without the slap, it's more about whether comedians should be encouraged to make fun of medical conditions or not. Without the slap, it's just Chris Rock trying to justify why he in particular would joke about a black woman's hair in the first place.

Maybe, I don't claim to be correct, its just my opinion I shared on this forum. I have my own views on the joke, again I'm sure many would disagree with. 

Personally my opinion is, the joke was lame, but quite tame. Will's reaction was understandable but his actions wrong and unjust.  

[mistermack]

Jokes aside, just going back to the OP question, I was saddened to read about a woman who died in the May Day traditional fest in Padstow, Cornwall, from a bump on the back of the head. 

She suffered a bleed, leading to a stroke, when she was bumped by the elaborate hobby horse costume that is danced through the streets on May Day. She apparently had suffered an incident about ten days ealier, not significant at the time, that left one of her arteries in the back of her neck a bit delicate, and then the bump from the 'Obby Oss' compounded it and caused a fatal bleed on the brain.

You never know how vulnerable someone is, when you strike them. 

So the answer is "yes" to the question, could Will Smith's blow have killed Chris Rock. Very unlikely, but yes, it could.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10692353/Laura-Smallwood-inquest-Coroner-says-Padstows-Day-parade-professionally-managed.html   

[dimreepr]

22 hours ago, mistermack said:

Jokes aside

Isn't that the point?

[mistermack]

21 hours ago, dimreepr said:

Isn't that the point?

No, the point is whether the blow could have killed. The joke is a side issue.

[dimreepr]

27 minutes ago, mistermack said:

No, the point is whether the blow could have killed. The joke is a side issue.

Every step you take could be your last, that's both the joke and the issue...

[mistermack]

33 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Every step you take could be your last, that's both the joke and the issue...

But some steps are more dangerous than others. Like off a cliff, or onto a live subway rail. 

Not hitting people is less dangerous than hitting people. The world is regulated mostly by odds, not certainties.