Validity of the claim that Will Smith "could've killed" Chris Rock

[beecee]

1 hour ago, joigus said:

A joke is a joke; if it's not funny, so much the worse for the joke, and the joker.

But I don't think for a minute Chris Rock's life was in danger. Com'on.

I suggest your life is in far more danger playing any sport...or crossing a busy road...

[mistermack]

1 hour ago, joigus said:

A joke is a joke; if it's not funny, so much the worse for the joke, and the joker.

But I don't think for a minute Chris Rock's life was in danger. Com'on.

 

I've seen the video. He put a LOT of effort into the slap. Danger isn't on or off, it's a question of degree. People do die from a single blow, but it's pretty rare. But for each death, there are many more cases of brain injury, often life-changing. It's the sudden twist of the skull that causes the damage, not the impact of bone on bone, so a slap does involve danger. Rock's head certainly WAS spun very quickly, and that certainly did involve danger of brain damage, or even death. I'm pretty sure any doctor would agree with that.

I thought the joke was pretty harmless. The film role was a glamorous part, there was no denigration contained in the reference, and every star attending that event was well aware that they might get teased, or "roasted" as they call it. It's been that way for years. 

I agree with the above comment. Chris Rock did nothing wrong at all, and handled the matter a hell of a lot better than I would have. Much respect !

[TheVat]

2 hours ago, joigus said:

LOL.

By the way, what a master of self-control and cool, cool man, Chris Rock, in every sense of the word.

Kudos, Chris. My respect and admiration.

Second that.  His routine about bullet control remains one of my favorite commentaries on the issue of gun control.  

 

[zapatos]

4 hours ago, Phi for All said:

If you appear sensitive about it, you attract more bullying

 

4 hours ago, Phi for All said:

I would personally love to see us move away from debasing people through their physical flaws

 

4 hours ago, Phi for All said:

aren't we really just ignoring comments that would make us angry if we knew the joker "meant" something by it? 

I don't think I'm making myself clear. I believe you are mistaken in your apparent belief that joking about others is necessarily "bullying", "debasing" and has a dark undertone.

Some of us assume the joker has no evil intent and instead is just trying to make us laugh. It certainly makes my wife's jokes funnier when I don't get offended when she pokes fun at my short toes, or when I built something that was too big to fit through the basement door and I had to disassemble it.

4 hours ago, Phi for All said:

I thought it was more about peer-to-peer recognition and acknowledgement of artistic merit.

They always have an emcee. Usually a comedian.

[Peterkin]

If that happened in a neighbourhood pub on any Saturday night between two half-crocked navvies, the landlord would show them both the door, the other drinkers would have a chuckle, and nobody would ever comment on it again. It was a dumb joke in bad taste at a non-combatant, and a yob's reaction to another yob dissing his woman. The  other yob would consider that girly slap, rather than he 'punched the shit out of me'.

But they were wearing expensive suits in front of national broadcast cameras, so it the scandal of the century...

... until somebody famous does something even dumber.      

and they will

[iNow]

20 hours ago, ScienceNostalgia101 said:

What is the probability that one slap could have caused someone to lose their balance, fall, and hit their head in a life-endangering manner?

 Nearly, but not quite, zero. Nobody’s going to be charged with attempted murder here. 

[Doogles31731]

I have been an aficionado of boxing since I was an early teenager, and it looked liked a staged slap to me. Will Smith went through the motion, but he put no power into the contact. Chris Rock's head didn't move, nor did his expression change.

It didn't fulfill Koch's postulates.

[Intoscience]

4 hours ago, Doogles31731 said:

I have been an aficionado of boxing since I was an early teenager, and it looked liked a staged slap to me. Will Smith went through the motion, but he put no power into the contact. Chris Rock's head didn't move, nor did his expression change.

It didn't fulfill Koch's postulates.

I agree, the slap looked either staged or pulled. The resulting force which would have happened from the way Will drew his arm back would have been much harder and louder than what was received and Chris would have reacted much more and with more pain.

Also it appeared Will found the joke quite funny until he saw the reaction of his wife, whereby he then changed his attitude. In my opinion the joke good or bad was rather tame and I'm not sure if Chris was aware of Jada's medical condition or not. If he was then the joke was in poor taste, but if not I can see why he would consider it ok.

Jada is (rightly so) going to be very sensitive whilst dealing with her condition, so her reaction was understandable. However Will's action was completely out of order and was a mistake. 

I doubt very much Chris's life was ever in danger, the blow was very weak, so unless he was unlucky enough to fall or have a medical condition of his own that would be vulnerable to such a weak blow then I think this episode has been  (as expected for show biss) blown out of all proportion.   

[swansont]

14 hours ago, MigL said:

Her condition forces her to keep her hair cut really short ... like G.I. Jane.
That was the joke.

Where are we going with this ?
Safe spaces for those poor disadvantaged Hollywood celebrities ?
Shootings in comedy clubs ( especially when Ricky Gervais is performing ) ?

Real life doesn't give anyone the right to not be offended.
And I still don't know why it's all over the news, but I suspect INow is right, it provides a distraction from the real problems.

Not sure where we’re going, but we can start with facts, so we’re not headed in the wrong direction.

 

Quote

 

What is alopecia areata?

This is a disease that develops when the body attacks its own hair follicles (where hair grows from), which can cause hair loss anywhere on the body.

 

https://www.aad.org/public/diseases/hair-loss/types/alopecia

So he was not joking about a haircut, even if that was his (mis)understanding.

This is like TFG mocking the reporter - making fun of someone’s medical condition. Something they have no control over. It’s just mean.

 

And I agree - you don’t have a right to not be offended. But by the same token, you have right to be offended. This isn’t about free speech, it’s about basic decency on one side, and overreaction on the other.

[mistermack]

It's ludicrous to try to portray Chris Rock's joke as in bad taste. Jada has gone totally public with her head shaved, she made a video about it that had already clocked up TWO MILLION views, and yet a comment that she would be a suitable casting for the GI Jane part is supposed to be offensive, or in bad taste? People need to get real. This was not her little secret, it was something she'd taken time to publicise worldwide, as something that doesn't need to be hidden away. Chris Rock's very mild joke was really treating it in the same everyday normal manner. A derogatory joke would have been different, but it wasn't.

Chris Rock's routine about "Black People vs Niggaz" sums up Will Smith. Just when black people get things going right, some "damn Niggaz" come along and spoil it. Here he is doing that routine to an auditorium full of black people, and they are loving it. Because they've got a sense of humour. But if you've got no humour in you, then you will find most comedy offensive.  

 

 

 

[dimreepr]

3 hours ago, swansont said:

Not sure where we’re going, but we can start with facts, so we’re not headed in the wrong direction.

 

https://www.aad.org/public/diseases/hair-loss/types/alopecia

So he was not joking about a haircut, even if that was his (mis)understanding.

This is like TFG mocking the reporter - making fun of someone’s medical condition. Something they have no control over. It’s just mean.

 

And I agree - you don’t have a right to not be offended. But by the same token, you have right to be offended. This isn’t about free speech, it’s about basic decency on one side, and overreaction on the other.

That's a tricky boarder to negotiate; I have the right to negotiate, but not the right the right to be wrong!!!

 

[zapatos]

3 hours ago, swansont said:

So he was not joking about a haircut, even if that was his (mis)understanding.

 

My understanding is that she does shave her head as her hair has fallen out in clumps and she didn't like how it looked that way.

[Peterkin]

15 minutes ago, mistermack said:

It's ludicrous to try to portray Chris Rock's joke as in bad taste.

It's in bad taste, not due to the severity of the joke (almost negligible) - but for two other reasons.

1. It's about another person's physical appearance. Louie Anderson's weight is not a secret; Joan Rivers' cosmetic surgeries were not a secret - and while they could make fun of themselves, a close friend making fun of them in private would be acceptable -  a stranger doing it on national television is offensive.

2. It's at the expense of a non-participant. The celebrity being roasted is fair game but their family members are off limits.

[Genady]

19 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

It's in bad taste, not due to the severity of the joke (almost negligible) - but for two other reasons.

1. It's about another person's physical appearance. Louie Anderson's weight is not a secret; Joan Rivers' cosmetic surgeries were not a secret - and while they could make fun of themselves, a close friend making fun of them in private would be acceptable -  a stranger doing it on national television is offensive.

2. It's at the expense of a non-participant. The celebrity being roasted is fair game but their family members are off limits.

Reminds me of a little exchange with the same parties about ethnic jokes some time ago.

[zapatos]

32 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

2. It's at the expense of a non-participant. The celebrity being roasted is fair game but their family members are off limits.

This wasn't a roast, it was the Oscars. As such, all members of the Academy were participants. Including Jada.

[Peterkin]

1 hour ago, zapatos said:

As such, all members of the Academy were participants. Including Jada

In what context? These not-quite-kosher jokes were specifically aimed at spouses of nominees, not the nominees themselves. AFAIK, no other member of the academy was ridiculed for their physical shortcomings. 

1 hour ago, zapatos said:

This wasn't a roast, it was the Oscars

Same thing, since Ricky Gervais.

[zapatos]

12 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

AFAIK, no other member of the academy was ridiculed for their physical shortcomings. 

You seem to have assumed the worst possible interpretation of what he said, and I see nothing to support your position. I hope you never sit in judgement of me.

[Peterkin]

10 minutes ago, zapatos said:

I hope you never sit in judgement of me.

If you make a joke in public, everyone who hears it rightfully sits in judgment. Taste is subjective; it doesn't need support.

I considered that joke, while negligible in its level of offense, in bad taste and inappropriate, for the reasons given.

BTW I also considered Will Smith's response, while negligible in harm done, excessive, loutish and inappropriate.

A little decorum wouldn't do that annual celebrity-strut any harm.

[zapatos]

16 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

If you make a joke in public, everyone who hears it rightfully sits in judgment.

But not everyone assumes the worst like you do. That is why I only specified that I hope YOU never sit in judgement of me.

[Peterkin]

31 minutes ago, zapatos said:

That is why I only specified that I hope YOU never sit in judgement of me.

Okay. If you hold a public performance, or make statements on a public forum, henceforth, I'll recuse myself from the jury.

I won't even comment on you comment on my comment.

I won't even vote if you run for public office.

Can't say fairer'n't

Edited March 30, 2022 by Peterkin

[TheVat]

The joke, taste level aside, compared JPS to a sexy and glamorous movie star in a popular movie in which she surmounts all obstacles.   It could be a weak joke, it could be a little transgressive, and a lot of humor is built on mild transgression.  As Stephen Colbert said, the way to really hit back at a comedian whose joke you don't like is to not laugh.  A blow that Will Smith failed to administer, and which would have been more effective, given that cameras were trained on him and JPS for a reaction shot.  

  JPS, herself, wisely wrote this about her condition a while back:

I really had to put it in a spiritual perspective of, like, the higher power takes so much from people. People are out here who have cancer, people who have sick children. I watch the higher power take things every day and, by golly, if the higher power wants to take your hair, that’s hair? When I looked at it from that perspective, it really did settle me.

 

[beecee]

Quite a large varience of opinions being expressed here...the mind boggles!😏

[Phi for All]

17 hours ago, zapatos said:

I don't think I'm making myself clear. I believe you are mistaken in your apparent belief that joking about others is necessarily "bullying", "debasing" and has a dark undertone.

And I don't think "joking about others" and making fun of someone's physical condition are synonymous. I think when you're "joking" about someone's physical impairment, there's little difference between being having alopecia and having cerebral palsy or Type 1 diabetes. Not much the person can do about these things. 

Comedians from the past used to openly mock folks with buckteeth, stutters, and crossed eyes, and got quite the laugh. Times change though, thankfully.

Quote

Some of us assume the joker has no evil intent and instead is just trying to make us laugh. It certainly makes my wife's jokes funnier when I don't get offended when she pokes fun at my short toes, or when I built something that was too big to fit through the basement door and I had to disassemble it.

If you stopped wearing her shoes, she'd probably stop mocking your toes. 

And making jokes about something you did wrong is fair game, because you could have done better, you could have changed the outcome. Unless you made it too big to fit in the basement because your toes were too short, then I'd have to go back to "you can't change that".

[Moontanman]

I think something is wrong with WS, I've watched the clip several times, his facial expressions do not match his emotions, not even close.  The slap itself was weird, If someone had insulted my wife to the extent I thought physical punishment was mandated a slap would not have cut it. The whole thing was far too deliberate and strange, if it wasn't play acting them WS is one strange dude.   

Edited March 30, 2022 by Moontanman

[Peterkin]

51 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

And I don't think "joking about others" and making fun of someone's physical condition are synonymous.

I also note the circumstances as being of a particular nature: mockery of anything about another person is quite different when done in private between intimates, or when done at a party among close friends, or done to person who has in some way invited comment (say, by accepting an invitation to a roast, or a nomination for a prize given at a gala traditionally hosted by comedians), and being centered out for attention when you're unprepared.

 

33 minutes ago, Moontanman said:

The whole thing was far too deliberate and strange, if it wasn't play acting them WS is one strange dude.   

  I half suspected it was staged. But, hey, it got lots and lots of wholly undeserved attention!

Edited March 30, 2022 by Peterkin