Is it rational (for an athiest) to believe in religion?

[dimreepr]

The parable of the madman

Quote

Have you not heard of that madman who lit a lantern in the bright morning hours, ran to the market place, and cried incessantly: "I seek God! I seek God!"---As many of those who did not believe in God were standing around just then, he provoked much laughter. Has he got lost? asked one. Did he lose his way like a child? asked another. Or is he hiding? Is he afraid of us? Has he gone on a voyage? emigrated?---Thus they yelled and laughed

Is it rational to think I know better, when they're already happy?

[beecee]

Is it rational (for an athiest) to believe in religion?

Atheist= a  person who does not believe in a creator/deity/ID/god

Religion = The belief in a super duper omnipotent being/god

Rational = A belief based on reason, logic and evidence. 

https://www.google.com/search?q=rational+foundations+of+religion&rlz=1C1RXQR_en-GBAU952AU952&oq=rational&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i57j0i67i131i433j0i67j0i67i131i433j69i60l3.2928j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

"Rationalism holds that truth should be determined by reason and factual analysis, rather than faith, dogma, tradition or religious teaching"

[mistermack]

22 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Is it rational to think I know better, when they're already happy?

Would it be better for the cow in the field to know that her precious newborn calf would only be allowed to live for a few months, and then be slaughtered for his meat? Not really, unless she had a viable escape route. 

Would it be better for me to know that I'm going to be roasted in hell for all eternity after I die? Of course it would. I have an escape route, I can just give up my soul to the Lord, and praise his righteousness. 

Maybe tomorrow. 

[Genady]

No, it is not.

[dimreepr]

6 minutes ago, beecee said:

Atheist= a  person who does not believe in a creator/deity/ID/god

Indeed a person, who doesn't believe in that but does believe in this; who's happier?

11 minutes ago, beecee said:

Religion = The belief in a super duper omnipotent being/god

It might be a belief that a greater power, will get him back; so I can live in peace. Is your peace better than mine?

13 minutes ago, Genady said:

No, it is not.

Why?

22 minutes ago, mistermack said:

Would it be better for the cow in the field to know that her precious newborn calf would only be allowed to live for a few months, and then be slaughtered for his meat? Not really, unless she had a viable escape route. 

What makes you think she cares?

[iNow]

Religion obviously exists. No belief required. 

[dimreepr]

2 minutes ago, iNow said:

Religion obviously exists. No belief required. 

Not the question I'm asking...

[Genady]

22 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Why?

Because there is no rational base to do.

[dimreepr]

Just now, Genady said:

Because there is no rational base to do.

To do what? Please explain?

[Genady]

2 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

To do what? Please explain?

to believe in it

[dimreepr]

Just now, Genady said:

to believe in it

Indeed, to believe in it; makes me happy...

[Genady]

19 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Indeed, to believe in it; makes me happy...

Not the question you're asking...

[iNow]

42 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Not the question I'm asking...

Weird. Misleading title then:

Is it rational (for an athiest) to believe in religion?

[Intoscience]

8 minutes ago, iNow said:

Weird. Misleading title then:

Is it rational (for an athiest) to believe in religion?

+1

37 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Indeed, to believe in it; makes me happy...

Well if you're happy then I'm happy...

Ok I'll bite and have a go.

Yes, its rational to be an atheist and believe in religion.

I'm an atheist and also consider myself a rationalist, who also believes in the concepts and some ideas of most religions. 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Intoscience

[exchemist]

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

The parable of the madman

Is it rational to think I know better, when they're already happy?

It is always rational to think you may know better than a random group of people, if you have checked your information is good. Many people are badly informed about a lot of things. What mood they may be in is neither here nor there. 

It is obviously not rational for an atheist to believe religious claims, since if he did then he wouldn't be an atheist, would he? 

What are you trying to ask?  

[dimreepr]

23 minutes ago, exchemist said:

What are you trying to ask?  

Who is the madman?

[iNow]

22 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Who is the madman?

Depends on who you ask. 

[dimreepr]

Just now, iNow said:

Depends on who you ask. 

Exactly...

[Peterkin]

What does it mean to "believe in" religion?

We know the institutions that represent particular religions exist, and that organizations exist, and they they collect real tithes and services from real parishioners. It doesn't make atheists particularly happy, since we also know that these institutions wield oppressive political power.

Do we believe that belonging to a religious organizations makes a great many people feel secure and validated? Well, I can't speak for any other atheists (since we're not organized and have no shared belief system) but I believe that. I also believe that it gives some people the moral authority to abrogate other people's autonomy.

Do I believe that of believing in the specific content of a specific religious doctrine - certainly not as a general principle, no. I think some religions make many of their faithful  miserable, angry, frightened or ridden with guilt and self-loathing. Do some religious beliefs make some people happy? Very probably, but I don't see it demonstrated that religious belief is their only pathway to such happiness. 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Peterkin

[dimreepr]

15 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

Do I believe that believing in the specific content of a specific religious doctrine - certainly not as a general principle, no. I think some religions make many of their faithful  miserable, angry, frightened or ridden with guilt and self-loathing. Do some religious beliefs make some people happy? Very probably, but I don't see it demonstrated that religious belief is their only pathway to such happiness. 

Many pathways lead to happiness, Hitler was very confused... 

[Peterkin]

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

Who is the madman?

Many people suffer from mental illness. In the US, about 83 million people.

Quote

An estimated 26% of Americans ages 18 and older -- about 1 in 4 adults -- suffers from a diagnosable mental disorder in a given year.

That would make about 40,000,000 religious mad-men and -women

Quote

The new Gallup poll, published Monday, indicates that religious membership in the U.S. has fallen to just 47% among those surveyed — representing less than half of the adult population for the first time since Gallup began asking the question more than 80 years ago.

However, only a minority of the mental illness fits the description of the madman in the parable, but they are usually bipolar, rather than PTSD or OCD patients.

Quote

For many participants, a religious quest originated after a religious experience during mania, and then a variety of medical and religious sources supported the interpretation process.

 

10 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Many pathways lead to happiness, Hitler was very confused... 

You said the H word. I'm gone.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Peterkin
wrong numbers

[exchemist]

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

Who is the madman?

As I have no idea what your "parable" is supposed to illustrate, I can't answer that. 

[MigL]

If Religion is defined as the belief in omnipotent supernatural beings, and other supernatural planes of existence, then NO, there is no rationality to that belief. And Beecee has provided the definition of rationality which makes this self-evident.
Do you wish to alter the definition of 'rational' or 'religion' ?

If, on the other hand, you are asking about the need, use, or function of Religion, then YES, at some stage of a society's evolution there could definitely be a rational reason for its existence, as it provides a moral compass for people who may not have developed one yet, and gives the leaders of that society a way to control those who may not be very sociably inclined.

[beecee]

7 hours ago, dimreepr said:

Indeed a person, who doesn't believe in that but does believe in this; who's happier?

Au contraire my friend... ☺️  

5 hours ago, dimreepr said:

Is it rational (for an athiest) to believe in religion?

That one, up there!

7 hours ago, dimreepr said:

Indeed a person, who doesn't believe in that but does believe in this; who's happier?

I'm as happy as a pig in shit at this time! fridge stocked with VB, salted peanuts ready, and my team the Roosters ready to continue their winning streak tonight against the Brisbane Broncos!

5 hours ago, dimreepr said:

 Hitler was very confused... 

That is the definition of irrationallity and of course obviously a deliberate, rather controversial understatement at best....but you alreay know that.

5 hours ago, dimreepr said:

 Hitler was very confused... 

I dare say so to were the millions upon millions of Jews being forced into cattle cars for supposedly resettlement. Or the little girl raped by a crazy madman in a toilet block. At least Hitler did the right thing in the end I suppose. 

2 hours ago, MigL said:

If Religion is defined as the belief in omnipotent supernatural beings, and other supernatural planes of existence, then NO, there is no rationality to that belief. And Beecee has provided the definition of rationality which makes this self-evident.
Do you wish to alter the definition of 'rational' or 'religion' ?

I await with baited breath. 😉

 

 

[dimreepr]

17 hours ago, MigL said:

If Religion is defined as the belief in omnipotent supernatural beings, and other supernatural planes of existence, then NO, there is no rationality to that belief. And Beecee has provided the definition of rationality which makes this self-evident.
Do you wish to alter the definition of 'rational' or 'religion' ?

If, on the other hand, you are asking about the need, use, or function of Religion, then YES, at some stage of a society's evolution there could definitely be a rational reason for its existence, as it provides a moral compass for people who may not have developed one yet, and gives the leaders of that society a way to control those who may not be very sociably inclined.

If you're in a warzone helplessly cowering in a bunker, starving and thirsty, is it irrational to want/hope there's something greater than yourself, to protect you and lead you to happier place? It doesn't matter that it's magic if it works, that goes for anyone who are struggling to live life, the hope that there's better things to come makes the load that little bit lighter.

20 hours ago, exchemist said:

As I have no idea what your "parable" is supposed to illustrate, I can't answer that. 

It illustrates the struggle we will face in the absence of God, I think Nietzscher spent the rest of his life trying to think of an alternative to God, he'd be appalled at what Hitler made of his thinking.

15 hours ago, beecee said:

Au contraire my friend... ☺️ 

15 hours ago, beecee said:

I'm as happy as a pig in shit at this time! fridge stocked with VB, salted peanuts ready, and my team the Roosters ready to continue their winning streak tonight against the Brisbane Broncos!

It wasn't an accusation, it was a question. 😉