Why is red hair unattractive in males, but neutral or attractive in women? Is there an evo psych explanation?

[joigus]

4 hours ago, Genady said:

What do you mean by this? 

 

7 hours ago, joigus said:

I don't think, for example --and correct me if I'm wrong-- that sexual selection has been understood to the point of being related to molecular bases,

What I mean is that some particular behaviours can be traced back to a molecular basis, at least partially. This is especially true of some behavioural disorders. Some of them have a genetic basis, others can be partially explained by imprinting coming from environmental factors that get more or less permanently registered. But I'm talking here with a certain amount of diffidence, as I'm not an expert.

I'm not aware of any molecular mechanism having been shown as being at the basis of sexual selection.

[zapatos]

Actual data!

Quote

In Guéguen's most recent research, a female subject sat in a night club for one hour, and the number of men who approached asking for a dance was measured. The experiment was carried out on 16 different nights in a four-week period. Each subject tested four different wigs four times. In that crucial hour, overall, 127 men approached the women wearing a blond wig, 84 men approached the brown wigged lady, 82 went up to the black haired woman but only 29 approached the red haired lady.

 

Quote

In the second phase of the experiment, while slow songs were playing in the nightclubs, four 20 year old male confederates were instructed to ask a woman for a dance. 

27.5% of the women said yes to men wearing a blond wig, 30% for the men with a brown wig, 35% acceptances for the invitation to dance were received for men wearing black hair, but only 13.8 % for men who donned a red wig.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/dr-raj-persaud/redheads-psychology_b_1911771.html

 

Which is surprising to me as redheaded women always catch my eye. On the other hand I would not have choosen red as my own hair color.

[Peterkin]

10 minutes ago, zapatos said:

Which is surprising to me as redheaded women always catch my eye

I wonder if the experiment would have been different if it measured number of eye movements, rather than approaches. There is some folklore in play here: a long-standing widely held notion that red hair indicates a fiery temperament. So I have to wonder whether more men looked at the redheads and chickened out. The women's reaction is more telling. Naturally ginger men may have some disadvantages (pale skin, freckles, invisible eyelashes and pink-rimmed eyes), when the man is wearing a wig, none of these characteristics are evident: the women must be reacting to the association in their own minds. 

Ah! Having read the full article - interesting BTW; thanks! - I see where some of the prejudices come from. Some are the same in France, the UK and the US. The persistent stereotyping: red-haired women are wild and dangerous; dark-haired women are smart and dangerous; fair-haired women are soft and weak.  Scotsmen are industrious, dour and frugal. Red-haired boys are cut-ups and rascals. Folklore that's been carried through to children's books, novels and cinema is not losing on grip on people's imagination. 

 

[Genady]

1 hour ago, joigus said:

 

What I mean is that some particular behaviours can be traced back to a molecular basis, at least partially. This is especially true of some behavioural disorders. Some of them have a genetic basis, others can be partially explained by imprinting coming from environmental factors that get more or less permanently registered. But I'm talking here with a certain amount of diffidence, as I'm not an expert.

I'm not aware of any molecular mechanism having been shown as being at the basis of sexual selection.

I see now. Thank you, I've misinterpreted.

BTW, I think that only very few particular behaviors can be traced to a molecular basis. Esp. if they are not disorders.

[J.C.MacSwell]

Women of every hair colour are generally attractive where men of each hair colour are comparatively not relatively speaking.

It comes down to eggs are expensive and sperm are cheap after millions of years of wash rinse repeat of said hair.

[Peterkin]

3 hours ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Women of every hair colour are generally attractive where men of each hair colour are comparatively not relatively speaking.

The above cited research contradicts this.

[J.C.MacSwell]

10 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

The above cited research contradicts this.

Where exactly?

[Peterkin]

22 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Where exactly?

Three posts up^^^, by Zapatos.

 

http:// https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/dr-raj-persaud/redheads-psychology_b_1911771.html

[J.C.MacSwell]

8 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

Three posts up^^^, by Zapatos.

 

http:// https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/dr-raj-persaud/redheads-psychology_b_1911771.html

It seems to compare different hair colours of women, and separately men.

My claim is of attractiveness of men vs women, so I don't see a contradiction. Perhaps you could point out where in Zaps link?

 

[Peterkin]

14 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

My claim is of attractiveness of men vs women, so I don't see a contradiction. Perhaps you could point out where in Zaps link?

I believe he quoted the relevant paragraphs.

[J.C.MacSwell]

6 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

I believe he quoted the relevant paragraphs.

Where's the contradiction?

22 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

It seems to compare different hair colours of women, and separately men.

My claim is of attractiveness of men vs women, so I don't see a contradiction. Perhaps you could point out where in Zaps link?

 

 

[Peterkin]

4 hours ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Women of every hair colour are generally attractive where men of each hair colour are comparatively not relatively speaking.

Generally, comparatively, relatively of what to what? It was an ambiguous statement. Do you mean that women are more attractive to you than men are? Or that men are more attracted to women than women are to men? Or what, in fact, does it have to do with hair colour at all, at all?

[Moontanman]

20 hours ago, MigL said:

It has been my experience that most red-headed women have freckles on their boobs, which I personally don't find very attractive.
But that's just a personal preference, and i'm known to be very shallow.

You noticed that too! 

[MigL]

5 hours ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Women of every hair colour are generally attractive where men of each hair colour are comparatively not relatively speaking.

Maybe to you, but a certain percentage of the male population happens to find males more attractive, regardless of hair color 😃 .

19 minutes ago, Moontanman said:

You noticed that too! 

We must have dated the same women, Moon 😃 .

I'm sorry, I just can't take these kinds of threads seriously ...

 

[joigus]

11 hours ago, Genady said:

BTW, I think that only very few particular behaviors can be traced to a molecular basis. Esp. if they are not disorders.

I agree --from every bit of evidence I know about. I think the reason underlying it is behaviour is very heavily influenced by environmental factors and ongoing processes in the mind --recent memories, interrelation/correlation of stimuli... In order for a recognizable pattern having a nearly 100 % molecular basis to reflect in behaviour --in the form of a fixed action pattern*, quite independently of those passing processes-- one seems compelled to think in terms of something really wrong in the genes or regulatory sequences, etc.--what I mean by 'molecular.' Otherwise, it's just too iffy.

*I'm thinking OCD, PTSD, etc.

[Moontanman]

17 hours ago, MigL said:

Maybe to you, but a certain percentage of the male population happens to find males more attractive, regardless of hair color 😃 .

We must have dated the same women, Moon 😃 .

I'm sorry, I just can't take these kinds of threads seriously ...

 

My first wife was a readhead, she couldn't tan, her skin turned red and her freckles turned green, I told her she looked like a christmas tree. 

 

[Intoscience]

10 hours ago, Moontanman said:

My first wife was a readhead, she couldn't tan, her skin turned red and her freckles turned green, I told her she looked like a christmas tree. 

 

Do you mind, I was just taking a sip off coffee whilst reading this and spat it out in laughter! 

On 4/10/2022 at 6:37 AM, MigL said:

It has been my experience that most red-headed women have freckles on their boobs, which I personally don't find very attractive.
But that's just a personal preference, and i'm known to be very shallow.

My first love was a fiery red head, she had freckles everywhere, I found them rather attractive myself. 

To be fair though, I'm not sure about other cultures but certainly in mine a red headed male would not feature very high on a list of physical "attractiveness" from any general survey conducted.

It's generally the usual cliché of - tall, dark and handsome as top contenders. A short, "ugly" redheaded male doesn't stand much of a chance and would generally have to recruit his charm, wit and comedy skills to gain attention. 

I know this from experience because a good friend of mine fits this description and he is under no illusion when it comes to attracting potential partners. He has honed his personality and social skills to some success. 

On the other hand I have known and even dated some very attractive redheaded women. There is a redheaded lady that attends the gym where I currently work out, she is very attractive and gains much attention.  

 

[StringJunky]

3 hours ago, Intoscience said:

On the other hand I have known and even dated some very attractive redheaded women. There is a redheaded lady that attends the gym where I currently work out, she is very attractive and gains much attention.  

 

Nicole Kidman carries red hair well . Unusually, she has no freckles.

Edited April 12, 2022 by StringJunky

[Intoscience]

29 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

Nicole Kidman carries red hair well . Unusually, she has no freckles.

Yes, she is a very attractive lady. I wonder if she has more freckles than she appears to but hides them well with make up? I know some redheads have many freckles while others have few. I also notice that there seems to be a correlation with the "gingerness" of the hair and the number of freckles. Those that appear very ginger tend to have more freckles where those that are closer to blonde have fewer?

[StringJunky]

3 hours ago, Intoscience said:

Yes, she is a very attractive lady. I wonder if she has more freckles than she appears to but hides them well with make up? I know some redheads have many freckles while others have few. I also notice that there seems to be a correlation with the "gingerness" of the hair and the number of freckles. Those that appear very ginger tend to have more freckles where those that are closer to blonde have fewer?

No, she's known for her blemish-free skin. WYSIWYG. She's dyed blonde most of the time though. I suppose it's whatever her job dictates.

Edited April 12, 2022 by StringJunky

[TheVat]

I was misled by Titanic on Kate Winslet's hair.  She looked absolutely stunning as a redhead, but is in fact a natural blonde.  And I sense that we have departed from evolutionary biology and quietly moved on to the hotties section of the forum.  😛

[zapatos]

6 minutes ago, TheVat said:

I was misled by Titanic on Kate Winslet's hair.  She looked absolutely stunning as a redhead, but is in fact a natural blonde.  And I sense that we have departed from evolutionary biology and quietly moved on to the hotties section of the forum.  😛

Maybe, but it also makes me think that what men find attractive is the red hair, and not necessarily the other characteristics that often come with natural red hair. 

[swansont]

1 hour ago, zapatos said:

Maybe, but it also makes me think that what men find attractive is the red hair, and not necessarily the other characteristics that often come with natural red hair. 

I think that there is a fairly wide spectrum of what people find attractive, and making general statements will always be weak to varying extents. The OP is wrong to insist that "red hair in men is regarded as unattractive" and by the same token "what men find attractive is the red hair" is also wrong. Both statements apply, at best, so some subset of the target audience. That subset might be large, and it might be small. As such, the statements are not particularly useful.

[zapatos]

2 minutes ago, swansont said:

I think that there is a fairly wide spectrum of what people find attractive, and making general statements will always be weak to varying extents. The OP is wrong to insist that "red hair in men is regarded as unattractive" and by the same token "what men find attractive is the red hair" is also wrong. Both statements apply, at best, so some subset of the target audience. That subset might be large, and it might be small. As such, the statements are not particularly useful.

Seriously? What about freckles on breasts, Nicole Kidman dyeing her hair blond, Kate Winslet being a natural blond, contemplating whether or not Nicole Kidman puts makeup on her freckles, the good looking redhead at the gym, and green freckles? I think the "let's keep this about science" ship sailed long ago. At least I provided some actual data.

[iNow]

Just needed the addition of the word “some.” What “some” men consider attractive… The insertion of the word “many” would’ve worked, too.