YT2095 Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 5 days after the New Orleans huricane disaster not a SINGLE U.S Official has even been there to have a look! the BBC are there, Sky News is there CNN are there, but where`s Bush and his crew? ok I`m an outsider looking in, but that seems pretty darn disgusting to me, esp when you consider that less than 5 days after that tsunami they were they like flies round stink! what`s going on? (or not as the case may be). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john5746 Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 When Bush went to Florida and helped with his brother, people complained that it was for political gain and that it complicated relief efforts. Yes, it was during an election year, etc. I personally don't think he needs to go there. He has flown over it and is fully aware of how bad things are in the area. I think he and many others can do more good by staying put and running things from a far. What do you want him to do, put waders on and yell out of a speakerphone in New Orleans? As for the media - it sickens me to watch them pester police and relief workers asking them "why aren't you doing anything", when the media are the only ones not doing anything. I know they have a job to do as well, but I think they can be more helpful in these situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted September 2, 2005 Author Share Posted September 2, 2005 yeah, he flew over TODAY, about an hour ago. and yet officials were there at the tsunami site in no time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangloss Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 No, he flew over the area on Wednesday. Today he's actually going there (or is that what you meant by "flew over"?), and will tour a disaster area the size of Britain. Blaming this on Bush, YT, is a little rash, don't you think? I have four words for you, by way of reminder about snap judgements: Jean Charles de Menezes. Help was "late" arriving in the tsunami areas as well. That's a standard complaint that you hear at all disaster sites. Clearly something has gone wrong here, but I think it's a bit early to be tossing blame around. Clearly there's been the lack of realization about how serious things were for the first two days. There may also have been a lack of preparation, but we'll only know that with the accuracy of hindsight. There's really no point in passing judgement right now. The main thing right now is to get these people shelter, food and basic assistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted September 2, 2005 Author Share Posted September 2, 2005 The main thing right now is to get these people shelter, food and basic assistance. Isn`t that like 5 days too late though (or maybe even more if you factor in the that they Knew it was going to hit a few days in advance). where`s the Army? oh yeah my bad, Off getting Oil in Iraq odd how they can send those lads out there to do that and yet your own people suffer? no I`m not aportioning Blame, I just think the whole thing`s disgusting! from the top down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPL.Luke Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 as I said on irc, the army is rarely deployed to control civic disturbances in the US for a large number of reasons, beginning with the constitution and ending with training. The national guard has been in new orleans since the day after the hurricane. since it has become clear that it will take a fairly large force to control the city 40,000 guardsmen and a few military police are moving into missisipi and louisana. several hundred have already been airlifted into the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john5746 Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 as I said on irc, the army is rarely deployed to control civic disturbances in the US for a large number of reasons, beginning with the constitution and ending with training. They have been trying to do it in Iraq The national guard has been in new orleans since the day after the hurricane. . They have also been deployed to Iraq. Part of this is another cost of Rebuilding Iraq. It is very apparent that the Guard would have been more prepared to respond if some of the Louisiana and Mississippi Troops were not in Iraq. Not saying this means we should never deploy them on foreign soil' date=' just stating that is one of the costs of having them deployed elsewhere. since it has become clear that it will take a fairly large force to control the city 40,000 guardsmen and a few military police are moving into missisipi and louisana. several hundred have already been airlifted into the city. It was clear this would be needed as soon as Katrina became category 3. I think everyone relaxed a little when the immediate damage in New Orleans appeared to not be catestrophic. The rest of the "blame" would be on the local governments IMO. For years, we have talked about New Orleans being a bowl ready to be filled. They should have been able to commandeer buses and get the sick and poor out of there prior to the hurricane and have more vehicles that can run on water to help. I think this was much more preventable than the Tsunami disaster, but it is normal to see more effort after a disaster than when it is still a maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted September 2, 2005 Author Share Posted September 2, 2005 and it`s on your own doorstep for petes sake, what`s the problem here? 5 days later and NOTHING has been done on any appreciable level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPL.Luke Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 lets see... 48 hours warning, give 24 hours to organize and aquire the busses, then 12 hours or less to get people out of the city. conclusion.... not enough time as for the US trying to use the army to control civic issues in iraq, thats different there is no other force large enough to control the area otherwise. So far nothing has been said about there being a shortage of force to go into New Orleans because of iraq. So I would venture to say that it isn't effecting it. In fact there have been statements that say that the Iraq war has had no effect on the response to the hurricane. There have also been hurricanes and floods in the south eastern United States for centuries, and it usually just takes the local authorities with a little helping hand from the national guard, the problem thats makeing them send in 40,000 troops now is that they need to maintain order because looting and the like has gotten so bad that the police can only "hold the station" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted September 2, 2005 Author Share Posted September 2, 2005 the police can only "hold the station" doesn`t that speak volumes alone? where`s FEMA too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane_alien Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 why doesn't the president himself go down there and help with the search and rescue at least it would look like he was doing something and people might have a bit of respect for the confused bugger that he is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPL.Luke Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 because if he's down there helping with search and rescue he's not running the country! going down and walking around in waders and such is more of a campaign move than anything else, and he doesn't have to worry about that anymore. Part of the problem in this country is that every ellected official try's to make themselves look good for the next election rather than doing their job. -The police have only gotten this desperate in the past 2 days. The order for 40,000 soldiers went through yesterday, they were deployed as a response. mind you that the 40,000 is going to be distributed throughout the affected region in order to provide aid to the entire population of the state. (new orleans took a lighter blow than some of the other areas in the state) FEMA is the one running the shelters. and the search and rescue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted September 2, 2005 Author Share Posted September 2, 2005 turns out that he had to cut his FIVE WEEK holliday short by 2 days as well I was asked in IRC, what could he have done? Well... how about deploying all he can to help them, he IS suposed to be the President of the USA isn`t he? and then I hear that on TV, he made a speach, and basicly said that he was a figurehead with "I'm down here to thank people, and comfort people". Bravo Mr President! now, how about some Food and aid too (if it`s not too much trouble). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangloss Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Isn`t that like 5 days too late though (or maybe even more if you factor in the that they Knew it was going to hit a few days in advance).where`s the Army? oh yeah my bad' date=' Off getting Oil in Iraq odd how they can send those lads out there to do that and yet your own people suffer? no I`m not aportioning Blame, I just think the whole thing`s disgusting! from the top down.[/quote'] The last statement clearly contradicts the first three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane_alien Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 yeah they could have used airforce 1 to fly in some food and water in the cargo holds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_p Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Damn you, YT, for forcing me to defend that idiot. I applaud Bush for staying out from underfoot; a bunch of high-level officials, with attendant security issues, are not going to help the relief effort. The reason that the situation is so bad in NO is that the levee broke and the pumps failed; the emergency occurred AFTER the hurricane. FEMA is there, the Red Cross is there, and the Guard is there. But roads are still impassible, power lines are still down, sanitation systems are not functioning, and the water has just stopped rising in NO. [Things may be improving; I haven't listened to the news today.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted September 2, 2005 Author Share Posted September 2, 2005 The last statement clearly contradicts the first three. Hmmm.... yeah ok, I`ll conceed that point, you`re correct, I am. it wasn`t my Intention at all, but then it`s very hard not to at some point along the line, the "Buck Stops" somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangloss Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 YT, the truth is clearly that you wouldn't be angry at all if Bush wasn't the president right now. I'm really disappointed in your ideological, partisan spin on this. It's shameful, and you should be embarassed. Jean Charles de Menezes, sir. Jean Charles de Menezes. 1) The armed forces have plenty of domestic capability. 30,000 troops are headed for the region or already there, and that's just federal troops, not counting local guard units. 2) This statement is patently false: and it`s on your own doorstep for petes sake' date=' what`s the problem here? 5 days later and NOTHING has been done on any appreciable level the police can only "hold the station" doesn`t that speak volumes alone? where`s FEMA too? [/quote'] - The aerial rescue effort has been incredible -- 5,000 people rescued via helicopter, possibly the largest number in one event ever in the history of the world - FEMA was on the ground in Louisiana and Mississippi BEFORE THE HURRICANE STRUCK - State AND Federally-lead rescues were being conducted the night of and the morning after the hurricane - Alabama's power is almost fully restored - Mississippi's power is back on to all rescue areas and any areas not destroyed - All victims in Mississippi and Alabama are in powered shelters receiving food and water - Half a million victims from Louisiana are in powered shelters receiving food and water What the heck do you know (or care) about FEMA, Brit? I think you need to chill out before you say something REALLY stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangloss Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 The only real problem right now is that a vast number of people are on the ground in New Orleans with no real oversight. They may very well determine over time that there was a lack of preparation here. But I think the situation is not really something that could have been fully anticipated. MANY tsunami victims waited WEEKS for aid. The victims on the gulf coast, for the most part, already HAVE it. It's only in the heart of New Orleans, where so many have congregated and created a massive logistical issue, that a serious problem remains. I'm not making excuses for anyone, I'm just saying that this is a logistical problem, not a political one. Bush isn't "playing at" anything, and it makes ZERO political sense for him to do so. What are you thinking, that he WANTS people to die? Come on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted September 2, 2005 Author Share Posted September 2, 2005 not at all, I saw these people LIVE today, Yank! stepping past dead bodies, a mother with twins in a single car seat in high temps trying to shade them and get food for her babies! this is all 5 days later! Yank! so who`s doing/saying something stupid here, you think these folks were actors paid to do it for TV or something? maybe it`s because you`re in a big country, do ya recon that`s what it is? coz I know for an absolute fact that if it was the UK, it would have been seen to within 24 hours! that ok with you Yanky Doodle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPL.Luke Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 hey the UK has never had to deal with a disaster that displaced over a million people. I wonder if they ever had to deal with a disaster on this scale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted September 2, 2005 Author Share Posted September 2, 2005 yeah, the bombings during the war, we`re an old hand at it actualy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 I don't understand, YT2095, what else you expect Bush to do. There is NO possible way to fix this problem in 24 hours. Even if Bush used his magic wand to fix the levees it would still take MONTHS to drain the water alone. Do you think Bush should be swimming through the canal with a sandbag to help repair the levy? In New Orleans there are even more complications, such as criminals shooting at rescue helicopters and burning the remaining buildings. Do you expect Bush to grab a rifle and start shooting the citizens of New Orleans? For God's sake, what the hell do you want him to do?? I applaud Bush for what he has done thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane_alien Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 "doyou expect bush to grab a rifle and start shooting the citizens of New Orleans?" now that would be funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted September 2, 2005 Author Share Posted September 2, 2005 well, he had X amount of days to know it was coming, forces should have been in that area before landfall (for a start). I should NOT be seeing ANY of what I`ve seen today on live TV after 5 days, NON of it. sure houses smashed to matchsticks etc... will take months or years to put right, but the People, the TAX payers.... naah it`s well wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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