'Johnson by Name, Johnson by Nature'

[toucana]

The British Government  is in complete chaos, and is on the brink of collapse tonight. PM Boris Johnson has been hit  with 38 resignations from his cabinet staff, including the Chancellor of The Exchequer, and the Health Minister in the last 24 hours.

A delegation of other cabinet colleagues including the Home Secretary and the replacement Chancellor (who was appointed only yesterday) are said to be at Downing Street tonight trying to persuade the PM to resign - which he is currently refusing to do.

Attempting to explain the sequence of scandals which has led to this situation is no simple task, but this article by CNN offers a reasonable overview:

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/07/06/uk/boris-johnson-scandals-intl/index.html

One practical difficulty is that Boris Johnson survived a  parliamentary No Confidence vote brought by his own Conservative party barely a month ago. Under existing Conservative party rules, they can’t bring another such motion for at least 12 months. That however is likely to be dealt with by an emergency rule change later tonight, if all else fails

[Peterkin]

In Johnson's UK, those are 'scandals'; in Trump's USA they wold have been 'an average month' - just so you substitute a virgin diet coke in that glass. 

The real difference is that the British Parliament can still act; can change rules that don't work; can oust bad leaders.

What's the realistic alternative government that can take over quickly?

[mistermack]

Johnson is finished. The govornment is hardly on the brink of collapse though. They will have an election and 'unite' around whoever wins. Conservative MPs will protect their own interests, once Johnson is history. 

Johnson has been on an amazing self-destruct course. Right from the early days, when he spent a spectacular amount of money on the 10 Downing Street flat decoration, including a truly ludicrous sum on wallpaper, of all things. He doesn't seem to have the ability to see the juggernaut hurtling towards him. 

Having the drinks parties during lockdown might look no big deal, at the time, but they should all know by now what the press will make of it. 

If I was in power I would appoint a minister for upcoming disasters, with a staff of ten to anticipate what the next press onslaught will be about. Mind you, what Johnson has done could all have been avoided by a tiny bit of common sense at the top. 

[geordief]

8 minutes ago, mistermack said:

Johnson is finished. The govornment is hardly on the brink of collapse though. They will have an election and 'unite' around whoever wins. Conservative MPs will protect their own interests, once Johnson is history. 

Johnson has been on an amazing self-destruct course. Right from the early days, when he spent a spectacular amount of money on the 10 Downing Street flat decoration, including a truly ludicrous sum on wallpaper, of all things. He doesn't seem to have the ability to see the juggernaut hurtling towards him. 

Having the drinks parties during lockdown might look no big deal, at the time, but they should all know by now what the press will make of it. 

If I was in power I would appoint a minister for upcoming disasters, with a staff of ten to anticipate what the next press onslaught will be about. Mind you, what Johnson has done could all have been avoided by a tiny bit of common sense at the top. 

And an understanding of what is expected of a political leader(plus a genuine attempt to work towards that  when it became clear  such a change of course was required)

 

Instead we are the fools who don't get his unique qualities.

 

For his part Starmer,the Labour leader has promised to step down if the same kind of charges are brought against  him as were brought  against Johnson

[mistermack]

5 minutes ago, geordief said:

For his part Starmer,the Labour leader has promised to step down if the same kind of charges are brought against  him as were brought  against Johnson

I thought that was a ludicrous thing to say. He must have inside info that it's a safe bet. I don't particularly care what they drank in Downing Street, or what Starmer did. The world has gone mad over it. A drink with a meal is not any kind of party that I would recognise, and neither were the gatherings in Downing Street. 

A party is something you go out to, not drinks at work. 

But the real crime is not forseeing what the press would make of it. That's what is both stupid and amateurish. Everyone in government should be constantly thinking, "how will this be presented in the news" ? or even misrepresented. They should be on top of it, it's what they get paid for.

[geordief]

4 minutes ago, mistermack said:

I thought that was a ludicrous thing to say. He must have inside info that it's a safe bet. I don't particularly care what they drank in Downing Street, or what Starmer did. The world has gone mad over it. A drink with a meal is not any kind of party that I would recognise, and neither were the gatherings in Downing Street. 

A party is something you go out to, not drinks at work. 

But the real crime is not forseeing what the press would make of it. That's what is both stupid and amateurish. Everyone in government should be constantly thinking, "how will this be presented in the news" ? or even misrepresented. They should be on top of it, it's what they get paid for.

Why don't you apply  for a post in this government ?

They are looking for people with your attitude 

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by geordief

[mistermack]

2 minutes ago, geordief said:

Why don't you apply  for a post in this government ?

They are looking for people with your attitude 

I would have no chance. I didn't go to Eton. 

[studiot]

1 hour ago, toucana said:

The British Government  is in complete chaos, and is on the brink of collapse tonight. PM Boris Johnson has been hit  with 38 resignations from his cabinet staff, including the Chancellor of The Exchequer, and the Health Minister in the last 24 hours.

Nonsense.

It collapsed a long time ago.

 

[Endy0816]

 

 

1 hour ago, mistermack said:

I would have no chance. I didn't go to Eton. 

One online class at Eton College in Canada and you're good to go!

 

Seriously, even just a few sane policies would make a world of difference for the UK. What gets me is that there's still plenty of money to be made while simultaneously doing what the UK needs.

Allowing Asylum requests to be made from outside the UK. Finding/Training all the inspectors/veterinarians needed. Building proper facilities in the UK for housing  migrants and more housing in general for the public.

Hopefully get someone who can at least reset interational relations, if nothing else.

Edited July 6, 2022 by Endy0816

[toucana]

The current tally now stands at 42 resignations from cabinet in just 24 hours - an all-comers' record. Johnson has also sacked  Michael Gove the 'Levelling Up Minister' who was the first senior cabinet member to advise him to go. The full list of resignations is here:

https://news.sky.com/story/cabinet-resignations-whos-staying-and-whos-going-ministers-reveal-if-they-are-backing-boris-johnson-after-rishi-sunak-and-sajid-javid-quit-12646480

[Endy0816]

13 hours ago, toucana said:

The current tally now stands at 42 resignations from cabinet in just 24 hours - an all-comers' record. Johnson has also sacked  Michael Gove the 'Levelling Up Minister' who was the first senior cabinet member to advise him to go. The full list of resignations is here:

https://news.sky.com/story/cabinet-resignations-whos-staying-and-whos-going-ministers-reveal-if-they-are-backing-boris-johnson-after-rishi-sunak-and-sajid-javid-quit-12646480

And now the man himself:

https://www.axios.com/2022/07/07/boris-johnson-resignation-uk-prime-minister

I don't know about waiting around until October, but at least the end is in sight.

[dimreepr]

1 hour ago, Endy0816 said:

I don't know about waiting around until October, but at least the end is in sight.

He's a bloviating buffoon, that we voted for; the tunnel is a mobius strip and the light we see is a train; maybe one day we'll stop kicking the can down the road and put it in the bin: that would be the end, until it's not...

Politics is like two fleas arguing over who owns the dog their both biting.

 

[geordief]

2 hours ago, Endy0816 said:

And now the man himself:

https://www.axios.com/2022/07/07/boris-johnson-resignation-uk-prime-minister

I don't know about waiting around until October, but at least the end is in sight.

Too much to hope that he will go sooner?

I  wonder how this will play out aside  from tar baby's  uninteresting  fate.

Will the informal pact btw Lib Dems and Labour break down now that Labour  has abandoned any faint hope of Remainers for a return to EU?

Will the Tories find someone ugly enough to replace the outgoing con man?

[Sensei]

You may regret it, and miss him, if the new PM is pro-Russian.. risky operation at tough times..

Edited July 7, 2022 by Sensei

[dimreepr]

2 minutes ago, Sensei said:

You may regret it, and miss him, if the new PM is pro-Russian.. risky operation at tough times..

policy: the art of persuading others to agree with what you want, whatever it costs them...

[TheVat]

BoJo always looked to me like a man who just climbed out of bed.  I see all his problems with the optics of things as flowing from this original sin.  

[mistermack]

33 minutes ago, Sensei said:

You may regret it, and miss him, if the new PM is pro-Russian.. risky operation at tough times.

I don't think there are any pro-Russian MPs in the running. In any case, if they were, they would keep it hidden. 

I'm pro-Russian, but if I got the job, I would keep my mouth shut and follow the official line of the rest of the West. I wouldn't want to jeopardise the UK's official position as first poodle of the United States. 

[TheVat]

The clever OP title...reminded me of a sci-fi novel where they used that expression (where the name of something happens to express a quality of it) in regards to bad architecture.  Apparently in architecture a "folly" means a building whose features are primarily ornamental, usually ridiculously extravagant.  So when the author describes such a building that everyone agrees was a waste of taxpayers money, she calls it "folly by name, folly by nature." 

 

[mistermack]

11 minutes ago, TheVat said:

The clever OP title...reminded me

I don't know if you followed what sparked off this final episode in the premiership of Johnson, but it was about a minister in the Whip's office by the name of "Pinchin" who was accused of getting drunk and molesting men at a club in London. 

It's all about what Boris knew when he appointed him, he has denied knowing anything apart from rumours. But a former aid reported that when Boris appointed him, he quipped " Pinchin by name, Pinchin by nature "  so that's where the title of this thread came from, Boris's own lips. 

[Endy0816]

2 hours ago, geordief said:

Too much to hope that he will go sooner?

I  wonder how this will play out aside  from tar baby's  uninteresting  fate.

Will the informal pact btw Lib Dems and Labour break down now that Labour  has abandoned any faint hope of Remainers for a return to EU?

Will the Tories find someone ugly enough to replace the outgoing con man?

I'm guessing he'll actually go sooner. This really is a bad time to effectively not have top positions manned.

Realistically going to be a long road back to EU. I think a major demographic shift is coming for the UK but still early days.

I'd at least hope the different opposition groups will work together to blunt the impact in the meantime.

3 hours ago, dimreepr said:

He's a bloviating buffoon, that we voted for; the tunnel is a mobius strip and the light we see is a train; maybe one day we'll stop kicking the can down the road and put it in the bin: that would be the end, until it's not...

Politics is like two fleas arguing over who owns the dog their both biting.

You start the GoFundMe, I'll supply the tar and feathers.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Endy0816

[TheVat]

1 hour ago, mistermack said:

I don't know if you followed what sparked off this final episode in the premiership of Johnson, but it was about a minister in the Whip's office by the name of "Pinchin" who was accused of getting drunk and molesting men at a club in London. 

It's all about what Boris knew when he appointed him, he has denied knowing anything apart from rumours. But a former aid reported that when Boris appointed him, he quipped " Pinchin by name, Pinchin by nature "  so that's where the title of this thread came from, Boris's own lips. 

 

I did follow it some, and recalled the grabby appointee had some sort of name like that (like a surgeon named Dr. Cutter).  That Boris openly said what he should have kept to himself seems very like TFG here.  Of course, with far more consequences than the TFG reaped, given that you still have a somewhat functional system of taking out the trash over there.   Here the dumpster fills up with garbage, then it's set on fire for several years.  

[toucana]

“Michael Gove went to 10 Downing St with the metaphorical bottle of whisky and a revolver, but clearly Boris Johnson has downed the whisky and turned the revolver on Michael Gove”  - (Conservative MP Tim Loughton)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQiAA9JsZAA

[TheVat]

From Anne Applebaum in The Atlantic...

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/07/boris-johnson-resigns-brexit-conservative-party-failure/661514/

More important, Brexit, the solution to the problem Johnson and his supporters described, was based on a series of lies. The electorate was promised that departure from the EU would lead not only to fewer immigrants but to greater prosperity, more welfare spending, less crowded hospitals. Instead, six years after the vote, Britain is less prosperous and more unequal. Brexit reduced the U.K. GDP by at least 1.5 percent even before it took full effect; the U.K. has the highest inflation rate in the G7; small businesses, especially importers, have been crushed by Brexit-related red tape and supply-chain problems. Though committees have been set up to look for “benefits from Brexit,” few are available. Brexiteers instead crow about the British vaccine campaign or British support for Ukraine, both of which would have been perfectly compatible with EU membership.

Of course, Brexit is not why Johnson has now resigned, or why his cabinet melted down, or why his popularity plunged. But it is an essential piece of the backstory. If British politics were a Faulkner novel, Brexit would be the long-ago tragedy that haunts all of the main characters, even if they hadn’t been born when it happened. Why did a story about a jolly drinking session his cabinet held during COVID lockdown do so much damage to Johnson? Partly because he was already suspected of dishonesty about Brexit, and “Partygate” reconfirmed the image of him as a liar. Why did his Conservative colleagues ultimately decide not to remove him as prime minister when they voted last month? Partly because Johnson is so closely associated with Brexit that a rejection of him looked like a rejection of Brexit, the policy that the party still claims as its greatest achievement. Why are Conservative and Labour politicians alike shocked by his admission that he met a former KGB officer, now a wealthy oligarch, at a private party in Italy while he was still foreign secretary, with no other officials present? Partly because the role of Russian money and influence in the Brexit campaign has never been fully explained.

[mistermack]

Never read such rubbish. I didn't vote in the Brexit referendum, I was pretty much perfectly in the middle of the argument. But a lot of what tilted me towards remain was inertia. It's always more tempting to stick with the devil you know. And I can absolutely confirm that the so-called lies of the campaign played no part in my decision, I could very easily discern what was being bigged up on both sides. People didn't vote on what the GDP would be, or red tape. They voted on who will run the country, the Westminster Parliament, or some back office in Brussels. And they decided to NOT stay in the United States of Europe. 

Since that decision was made, and looking at the reaction in Europe, I'm absolutely certain that they made the right decision, and if there was a vote today, I would definitely vote to stay out. The EU mandarins reacted more like a mafia than a club of equals.

The remain side constantly pushed the HUGE lie, that Europe was a club, not a government, but in private, the heads of the EU machine say openly that moving towards a fully integrated united state is their clear objective, and they are going there, little by little, every minute of every day. 

That's why there was so much rage, when we left. Apart from the cash cow that they would be losing. 

But it's not finished. We should pull out of the Human Rights courts as well. We have courts here, and MPs. We can decide on our own human rights. 

And pull out of the refugee convention. We can make our own rules. We have perfectly good courts and hundreds of MPs, all perfectly capable of making rules for this country. Why on earth should we farm out our own laws to foreign Quangos? 

So we're out in name, but there's still lots left to do. 

[StringJunky]

If we had remained a common market instead of towards a common government, Brexit wouldn't have happened.

Edited July 8, 2022 by StringJunky