Why can`t one sense god?

[joigus]

This question about how many senses, to an extent, depends on how we conceptually compartimentalise it, I think.

One way would be to count as many senses as types of receptor cells that can be distinguished as per development.

Another would take into account cells responding to different stimuli even if they belong in the same developmental lineage...

I'm not sure what the standard definition in modern biology is, but I seem to remember balance --mentioned by @dimreepr and also suggested by @Genady concerning acceleration-- as an independent sense.

In any case, a definition is in order. I don't think, eg, sense of humour merits it, no matter how important it is in life.

[dimreepr]

This is an interesting watch, as regards the topic.

 

[Genady]

Sense - Wikipedia has an in-depth discussion of the topic (senses, not god).

Quote

Although in some cultures five human senses were traditionally identified as such (namely sight, smell, touch, taste, and hearing), it is now recognized that there are many more. Senses used by non-human organisms are even greater in variety and number.

 

[MigL]

14 minutes ago, Genady said:

 Senses used by non-human organisms are even greater in variety and number.

Why are we discussing non-human organisms; none of them believe in God.
So electric and magnetic fields are not human senses.

And no you don't have a 'sense' to detect gravity; if I put you in a box, and drop you from a plane, you have no idea you're in a gravitational field.

As for the 'sense of balance', it is a simple mechanical system based on liquid in your inner ear. This internal liquid configuration is then sensed.

I am still of the opinion that senses convey information about the environment exterior to the body, not internal to it.

[Genady]

2 minutes ago, MigL said:

And no you don't have a 'sense' to detect gravity; if I put you in a box, and drop you from a plane, you have no idea you're in a gravitational field.

And that's why I've mentioned gravity/acceleration. When we free fall we sense acceleration. Of course, technically speaking we are too small to ever sense gravity as it manifests itself in tidal forces.

5 minutes ago, MigL said:

Why are we discussing non-human organisms

Because you've responded to the mention of echolocation.

[mistermack]

1 hour ago, Genady said:

I understand that these are examples of perception rather than sensation.

Same thing.

[Genady]

1 minute ago, mistermack said:

Same thing.

If you say so.

[mistermack]

5 minutes ago, Genady said:

When we free fall we sense acceleration.

No we don't.

[Genady]

2 minutes ago, mistermack said:

No we don't.

I do.

[mistermack]

1 minute ago, Genady said:

I do.

How?

[Genady]

Just now, mistermack said:

How?

There is a little thing in my vestibular system that stops pushing on some receptor and gives me feeling of the fall. If I accelerate upward, it pushes stronger and gives me feeling of accelerating up. Etc.

[mistermack]

2 minutes ago, Genady said:

There is a little thing in my vestibular system that stops pushing on some receptor and gives me feeling of the fall. If I accelerate upward, it pushes stronger and gives me feeling of accelerating up. Etc.

That's not acceleration you feel. It's the sudden change, from not free-falling to free-falling. You can't feel free falling. Nobody can.

[Genady]

1 minute ago, mistermack said:

That's not acceleration you feel. It's the sudden change, from not free-falling to free-falling. You can't feel free falling. Nobody can.

Isn't a change from not free-falling to free-falling an acceleration?

[dimreepr]

14 minutes ago, MigL said:

Why are we discussing non-human organisms; none of them believe in God.

How do you know you don't?

 

1 hour ago, joigus said:

I don't think, eg, sense of humour merits it, no matter how important it is in life.

It's certainly on the cusp, but there is an argument for a sense of awe...

3 minutes ago, mistermack said:

That's not acceleration you feel.

Yes it is, it helps us to stand up for more than a few seconds...

[Genady]

Suggestion to split the discussion of senses from the original thread and to move it to a biology forum.

[mistermack]

2 minutes ago, Genady said:

Isn't a change from not free-falling to free-falling an acceleration?

No, it's actually more like acceleration suddenly stopping. When you stand on the edge of a cliff, you experience an upward force through your feet, that's transferred throughout your body. If you step off the cliff, that force is no longer there, so that's what you're feeling, the sudden absence of that upward force. 

[Genady]

1 minute ago, mistermack said:

No, it's actually more like acceleration suddenly stopping. When you stand on the edge of a cliff, you experience an upward force through your feet, that's transferred throughout your body. If you step off the cliff, that force is no longer there, so that's what you're feeling, the sudden absence of that upward force. 

Yes, I feel it. It's a sense. And it is not one of the original five.

[mistermack]

1 minute ago, Genady said:

Yes, I feel it. It's a sense. And it is not one of the original five.

That's right. But in free fall, you will feel nothing. You can only feel the transition from not free-falling.

We can feel gravity. Sat in a chair, you can feel the effect of gravity in every part of your body, although we're so used to it we hardly ever note it. But in free fall, you can't feel gravity at all. And as we're not used to that, it will feel strange. 

Of course, free falling in air, you will soon feel the air rushing past you.

[Genady]

3 minutes ago, mistermack said:

That's right. But in free fall, you will feel nothing. You can only feel the transition from not free-falling.

We can feel gravity. Sat in a chair, you can feel the effect of gravity in every part of your body, although we're so used to it we hardly ever note it. But in free fall, you can't feel gravity at all. And as we're not used to that, it will feel strange. 

Of course, free falling in air, you will soon feel the air rushing past you.

We feel the effect of gravity, but not the gravity. This effect is not distinguishable from the effect of upward acceleration without gravity.

[dimreepr]

5 minutes ago, mistermack said:

We can feel gravity. Sat in a chair, you can feel the effect of gravity in every part of your body, although we're so used to it we hardly ever note it. But in free fall, you can't feel gravity at all. And as we're not used to that, it will feel strange. 

No shit Sherlock, but I am used to standing up...

26 minutes ago, mistermack said:

No, it's actually more like acceleration suddenly stopping. When you stand on the edge of a cliff, you experience an upward force through your feet, that's transferred throughout your body. If you step off the cliff, that force is no longer there, so that's what you're feeling, the sudden absence of that upward force. 

How do you know?

I've been fooled before, by a train leaving the station...

[mistermack]

11 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

I've been fooled before, by a train leaving the station...

I always double check it's the right train.

[dimreepr]

Just now, mistermack said:

I always double check it's the right train.

What sense do you use for that???

[mistermack]

14 minutes ago, Genady said:

We feel the effect of gravity, but not the gravity.

Yeh, but that's just mincing words. 

 

15 minutes ago, Genady said:

This effect is not distinguishable from the effect of upward acceleration without gravity.

Of course not. That's the equivalence principle. But the same principle establishes that free-falling in a gravitational field is equivalent to zero acceleration in a zero gravitational field. 

6 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

What sense do you use for that???

Common sense.

[Genady]

2 minutes ago, mistermack said:

Yeh, but that's just mincing words. 

 

Of course not. That's the equivalence principle. But the same principle establishes that free-falling in a gravitational field is equivalent to zero acceleration in a zero gravitational field. 

So, we feel acceleration, and we feel difference in acceleration, including the difference between zero and not-zero acceleration.

[dimreepr]

3 minutes ago, mistermack said:

Common sense.

Is that a sense we have in common, like a sense of humour?