Capitol Attack. What happens next time ?

[mistermack]

8 hours ago, Trurl said:

Any effort to stop the rioters would result in massive casualties.

That's a dangerous approach to take. Riots would become everyday affairs if the news got out. 

8 hours ago, Trurl said:

Killing your fellow Americans doesn’t make sense.

It does to Americans. That's why they have more guns than people. (including babies)

 

8 hours ago, Trurl said:

Trump doesn’t call of the rioters because if he does he has to admit he is in control of them.

That doesn't follow at all. Everyone was calling them off EXCEPT Donald Trump.

 

8 hours ago, Trurl said:

I say we ban Biden and Trump both from the next election.

That would be good. I don't think Biden will run. He has the perfect excuse not to (age) and it looks like he would lose anyway. Let his vice president or Mrs Obama have a shot.

[geordief]

16 minutes ago, mistermack said:

That doesn't follow at all. Everyone was calling them off EXCEPT Donald Trump.

Makes sense to me.If done too obviously it would link him to their actions.He would be taking responsibility whereas we know the buck never stopped with him

39 minutes ago, mistermack said:

. He has the perfect excuse not to (age) and it looks like he would lose anyway

Apparently  Trump looks like losing against any  of the likely main Dem nominees (I heard that on CNN.So it must be true 😉 )

[iNow]

8 hours ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Must be hard to argue with a moderate with a balanced view.

Reality isn’t always balanced. Facts aren’t always supportive of moderate views.

I have no struggle with balance and moderation, but I do struggle when others engage in bad faith. 

8 hours ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

That's a false equivalency!

Correct.

Let’s say we’re dealing with a morbidly obese patient and discussing root causes.

One one side of the equation are genetics, sedentary lifestyle, and the decision to eat a dozen KrispyKream donuts for breakfast daily, 4 BigMacs daily for lunch, and an entire bucket of Fried Chicken for dinner with full sized bags of Doritos for snacks in between. 

On the other side of that equation is how the patient also chooses to chew gum with sugar in it instead of sugar free gum. 

In this discussion, you’re choosing to focus primarily on the gum. Others are responding to that choice. SMH. 

[Peterkin]

9 hours ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Must be hard to argue with a moderate with a balanced view.

Where? Where!?

10 hours ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

“If you’re able to, chip in now to the @MNFreedomFund to help post bail for those protesting on the ground in Minnesota,” Harris tweeted on June 1, just days after the Memorial Day death of George Floyd in Minneapolis.

 

Kamala Harris June 2020

 

Do you need more? Or perhaps you feel Harris's tweet only referred to those that feel they might be arrested unfairly, after doing nothing illegal?

In what way is asking to help raise bail [a standard legal procedure of extracting money from people in custody, whether they have any money or not] for people have been arrested for whatever reason and by whatever means (see Amnesty International documentation of police behaviour) condoning violence?

[iNow]

9 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

Where? Where!?

In what way is asking to help raise bail [a standard legal procedure of extracting money from people in custody, whether they have any money or not] for people have been arrested for whatever reason and by whatever means (see Amnesty International documentation of police behaviour) condoning violence?

He didn’t say condoning. He said promoting. 

[Peterkin]

17 minutes ago, iNow said:

He said promoting.

I stand corrected. I inadvertently referenced some of his earlier statements. I'll rephrase the question accordingly:

In what way is asking to help raise bail [a standard legal procedure of extracting money from people in custody, whether they have any money or not] for people have been arrested for whatever reason and by whatever means (see Amnesty International documentation of police behaviour) promoting violence?

 

[geordief]

10 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

I stand corrected. I inadvertently referenced some of his earlier statements. I'll rephrase the question accordingly:

In what way is asking to help raise bail [a standard legal procedure of extracting money from people in custody, whether they have any money or not] for people have been arrested for whatever reason and by whatever means (see Amnesty International documentation of police behaviour) promoting violence?

 

Well if Trump was in custody  I might well be tempted to dig a moat around the place and fill it with stingrays and prepared sinkholes -rather than contribute  to a GoFundMe  account to raise his bail (which would  be promoting violence,no?)

Edited July 24, 2022 by geordief

[iNow]

16 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

I stand corrected. I inadvertently referenced some of his earlier statements. I'll rephrase the question accordingly:

Doesn’t much matter. IMO, what he actually said was worse. 

[Peterkin]

Just now, geordief said:

Well if Trump was in custody  I might well be tempted to dig a moat around the place and fill it with stingrays and prepared sinkholes -rather than contribute  to a GoFundMe  account to raise his bail (which would  be promoting violence,no?)

Morally, no: entertaining temptation is only 10% percent of transgression; enetrtaining others with your temptation may only amount to another 10%, but is appreciated nonetheless.  Not legally, either, come to that, unless you actually told known sting-ray-owning partisans to contribute and then they or their fish actually stung someone going about his lawful occasions.

[J.C.MacSwell]

5 hours ago, iNow said:

He didn’t say condoning. He said promoting. 

Exactly.

Tweeting to offer bail for future arrests? I think you might see it more for what it is if Republican had offered it.

7 hours ago, iNow said:

Reality isn’t always balanced. Facts aren’t always supportive of moderate views.

I have no struggle with balance and moderation, but I do struggle when others engage in bad faith. 

Correct.

Let’s say we’re dealing with a morbidly obese patient and discussing root causes.

One one side of the equation are genetics, sedentary lifestyle, and the decision to eat a dozen KrispyKream donuts for breakfast daily, 4 BigMacs daily for lunch, and an entire bucket of Fried Chicken for dinner with full sized bags of Doritos for snacks in between. 

On the other side of that equation is how the patient also chooses to chew gum with sugar in it instead of sugar free gum. 

Clearly you don't understand what a balanced view is. A balanced view is being able to look at what Kamala Harris tweeted and recognizing it as wrong, and looking at what Trump did leading up to Jan 6 and recognizing it as much, much worse.

A ridiculously imbalanced view would be claiming Kamala's tweet was fine because 93% of her other posts were fine (just an example pulled out of thin air...I realize no one here would make that claim)

[iNow]

39 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Clearly you don't understand what a balanced view is

Is that your moderate impression of me?

[J.C.MacSwell]

3 minutes ago, iNow said:

Is that your moderate impression of me?

Sorry. I hate to say it but with that evaluation I'm being pretty conservative.😀

To put it more kindly my impression also includes all that is good about Democrats.

[Peterkin]

1 hour ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Tweeting to offer bail for future arrests?

You mean it was impossible, in knowledge of the history of US police vis a vis African Americans, days after one policeman had brutally and publicly murdered and African American, to anticipate that more arrests of people who could not afford bail would take place in a foreseeable future - unless the same person who anticipated such arrests was at the same time, but promoting violence by protestors, without using one single word about the police, the right wing or any kind of violent act?

Whereas:

Quote

Bender wrote in his book Frankly, We Did Win This Election that Trump said he wanted the military to go in and “beat the fuck” out of Black Lives Matter protesters and that he said, “Just shoot them,” on multiple occasions. https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/mark-esper-trump-shoot-black-lives-matter-protesters-1346079/

 

There is nothing unusual about bail funds

Quote

Nearly half a million people at any given time are in jail awaiting trial. Low-income defendants might spend weeks or months behind bars, while richer defendants return to their jobs and families. Or they might plead guilty to a crime they didn't commit because they can't afford to wait in jail until their court date. The system disproportionately hurts people of color. https://www.npr.org/2020/06/23/879711694/protest-arrests-led-to-surge-of-bail-fund-donations-impact-could-be-long-lasting

https://bailfunds.github.io/

1 hour ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

I think you might see it more for what it is if Republican had offered it.

Quote

Donald Trump encouraged supporters to rough up potential protesters Monday at his final pre-Iowa caucus rally. "If you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them," Trump said after warning of possible rabble-rousers. "I'll pay the legal fees," he added. https://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2016/02/01/trump-i-ll-pay-for-protester-beatings

Yes, I might at that!

Edited July 24, 2022 by Peterkin

[J.C.MacSwell]

33 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

You mean it was impossible, in knowledge of the history of US police vis a vis African Americans, days after one policeman had brutally and publicly murdered and African American, to anticipate that more arrests of people who could not afford bail would take place in a foreseeable future - unless the same person who anticipated such arrests was at the same time, but promoting violence by protestors, without using one single word about the police, the right wing or any kind of violent act?

 

No.

Nor did Kamala tweet anything like that to qualify her tweet.

33 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

Yes, I might at that!

How astute of you. Nice to see you can recognize that...like everyone else in the thread. Welcome to the club.

See if you can recognize a "more subtle" version in K Harris's tweet.

Edited July 24, 2022 by J.C.MacSwell

[Peterkin]

7 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

See if you can recognize a "more subtle" version in K Harris's tweet.

Pass. I get your drift and will now move upwind.

[J.C.MacSwell]

If Trump gets the 2024 GOP ticket, God forbid, I hope it doesn't embolden (note: doesn't mean justify) any more leftward cliff jumping...because you just know they will be bound (bungee cord perhaps?) and determined to make the election closer than it should be.

10 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

Pass. I get your drift and will now move upwind.

Good move. A reminder to everyone to be sure to vote...holding nose if necessary.

Edited July 24, 2022 by J.C.MacSwell

[iNow]

3 hours ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

I hate to say it but with that evaluation I'm being pretty conservative.

How very balanced of you