Who had a greater impact on advancing computers and its sciences? Babbage or Turing?

[Joshcitylife]

I was in a debate about these two grand characters a few days ago and wanted to know what the community thinks about it. We have two great minds in Alan Turing and Charles Babbage. We decided to see which of them had a greater contribution to the advancement of the computer as well as how to interact and implement them in every day life. 
 

All replies welcomed! 

[Peterkin]

Turing. It's not about the mind or the contribution: all scientific knowledge builds on previous knowledge. It's about the circumstances that propel a particular branch of science forward. War gets government funding and backing for enterprises that might otherwise come to naught, or just have to wait for the next big push. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Peterkin

[studiot]

6 hours ago, Joshcitylife said:

I was in a debate about these two grand characters a few days ago and wanted to know what the community thinks about it. We have two great minds in Alan Turing and Charles Babbage. We decided to see which of them had a greater contribution to the advancement of the computer as well as how to interact and implement them in every day life. 
 

All replies welcomed! 

What a silly question and what a good reply from @Peterkin  +1

The question is like asking which goes faster a Fiat 500 or a Trabant , whilst ignoring the likes of Porsche, Ferrari, TransAm etc.

What do you mean by computer anyway ?

The object that most people identify with as a 'computer' was due to Von Neumann.

Edited August 4, 2022 by studiot

[MigL]

Neither.
I would argue the honor goes to Physicist Robert Noyce who pioneered the monolithic silicon integrated circuit in 1959.
He founded Fairchild Semiconductor, and along with Gordon Moore, founded Intel.

Robert Noyce - Wikipedia

Honorable mention should also go to Jack Kilby, electrical engineer, developer of the first hybrid germanium IC at Texas Instruments in the late 50s ( and Nobel Prize for Physics in 2000 ).

They are arguably the fathers of modern computing, as we know it.

[joigus]

Let's not forget John Von Neumann --on the theoretical part, who played a mighty important role too. The architecture of modern computers is still based on his concepts AFAIK.

[Joshcitylife]

Well this is why im glad we have access to this kind of forum because we can gather great minds from all over the world to give their own unique input. 

[studiot]

32 minutes ago, Joshcitylife said:

Well this is why im glad we have access to this kind of forum because we can gather great minds from all over the world to give their own unique input. 

You have posted this in homework help.

Are you working on some kind of project  ?

If so here are some more pointers.

 

Babbage's wife, Ada Lovelace probably added more to computer theory than Babbage himself.

But the great thing would be to separate the those who added practicality and those who developed theory.

Both of these were needed in roughly equal parts.

It is not known who invented the abacus, various civilisations in ancient history had some form or other.

Later calculating machines were developed to, well to help calculate values for tables.

Napier was the theorist and Outred the practical implementer (he invented the slide rule)

Digital Theory probably started with DeMorgan.

This is where Babbage came in with his analytical engine (the practical man) and Ada was the theorist.

The next big development came before Turing's time and was still purely mechanical.

Industry threw up the need for control of machines that required a series of steps.

Hollerith invented the punch card system, which also started 'data processing'.

Electricity was also beginning to make an impact and devices using electric switches (relays) followed by vlaves (american tubes) and then semiconductor devices were made.

Von Neuman formalised the idea of 'the stored program architecture' originally using Hollerith cards and the modern computer was born.

Turing did much theoretical work on the capabilities and limitations of such machines and invented the 'turing machine' as an idealised model.

 

Now I have started your rehabilitation from the red marks with a +1  since you are showing some sense now.

Keep it up and I hope you project, if you have one, goes well.

 

 

 

[Peterkin]

Nitpicky point of clarification: though they can be considered the 'parents' of the computer, Ada Byron didn't marry Babbage; she married William King-Noel, later made Earl of Lovelace.

[Peterkin]

There are some excellent documentaries on the evolution of computing, https://newpathconsulting.com/2020/09/the-machine-that-changed-the-world-full-documentary/

[Joshcitylife]

This is quite an eye opener for me. Thank you very much and id like to ask google some basic questions as im sure all of us have at some point. So over a cup of grey earl I curiously typed into google, “ who invented the computer?” At the same time I had also asked my girlfriend that question. However none of the responses gave me any great comfort because I felt it was alot of peoples contributions built into one. With that being said I wanted to know perhaps whose contribution yeilded the greatest results.

[Peterkin]

4 minutes ago, Joshcitylife said:

However none of the responses gave me any great comfort because I felt it was alot of peoples contributions built into one.

That will be true of most inventions that grew and were developed over time. 

5 minutes ago, Joshcitylife said:

With that being said I wanted to know perhaps whose contribution yeilded the greatest results.

You have to load the question with more specific freight. By what measure is 'greatness'? By what standard is it recognized? Do you want the most famous, the most notorious, the most flamboyant, the one who brought it public attention, the one who applied to the most popular use, the most quoted, the most meticulous, the one who made most money, the one who got medals....?

I think it's more productive to view scientific discovery and technical innovation with regard to the product - in what respect does it enhance life - rather than as a contest of who did most. It might well be the credited inventor, or the first theorist who published a paper --- and then again, maybe not.

[paulsutton]

Is there not some sort of archaeological evidence that ancient civilisations may have had some sort of mechanical calculating devices.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-56377567

I wonder if Charles Babbage had knew about any of this or perhaps influenced in some way before building his 'difference engine'

[studiot]

31 minutes ago, paulsutton said:

Is there not some sort of archaeological evidence that ancient civilisations may have had some sort of mechanical calculating devices.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-56377567

I wonder if Charles Babbage had knew about any of this or perhaps influenced in some way before building his 'difference engine'

 

Did you actually read the article you linked to ?

Quote

The Antikythera Mechanism has baffled experts since it was found on a Roman-era shipwreck in Greece in 1901.

Charles Babbage died in 1871.

No one has suggested that Babbage's engine was the first   -  How about the Jacquard Loom controller from 1801 ?

Or the abacus that certainly predated the Greek device

[paulsutton]

21 hours ago, paulsutton said:

Is there not some sort of archaeological evidence that ancient civilisations may have had some sort of mechanical calculating devices.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-56377567

I wonder if Charles Babbage had knew about any of this or perhaps influenced in some way before building his 'difference engine'

Yes,  but that was one example, so on reflection was a bad example/  However maybe the question should be was Babbage aware of similar devices to those you mention,  did something perhaps inspire him to make his difference engine ?  e.g Jacquard Loom controller from 1801

[studiot]

1 hour ago, paulsutton said:

Yes,  but that was one example, so on reflection was a bad example/  However maybe the question should be was Babbage aware of similar devices to those you mention,  did something perhaps inspire him to make his difference engine ?  e.g Jacquard Loom controller from 1801

Everything we do rests on things people before us did.

For instance if someone had not already 'invented' calculations of what use would a calculation engine be ?

I would imagine that the abacus was known to Babbage, but so what ? and Why would his knowledge of that be suprising ?

He would probably also know that surveyors of his time measured by a physical chain. Each time it was laid along its length the survey would pick up a small stone and put it into his pocket. At the end of the survey he could then count how mainy chains he had measured.
So a pocket full of stones is a sort of calculation device. In fact it is a sort of primitive memory.