The Real World and Politics/politicians.

[studiot]

I don't suppose any of the current tory tinyminds in the leadership race will do anything about this scandal or if the even know or care about it.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-62494987

 

Quote

Thousands of households have had their addresses unknowingly used by crime gangs to register bogus companies, a BBC investigation has revealed.

 

[exchemist]

2 minutes ago, studiot said:

I don't suppose any of the current tory tinyminds in the leadership race will do anything about this scandal or if the even know or care about it.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-62494987

 

 

I read this. But what I can't see, from the report, is why it matters very much. OK so these people get some mail they have to return to sender. But that's about it, isn't it? They are not held liable for anything, just because their address has been used. There's nothing here to suggest they have suffered any loss as a result.

[Sensei]

@studiot

How do you want to force criminals from using someone's address?

Politicians have made enough s**t over the years with regulations like cookies, unsolicited mails, non-anonymous SIM cards, non-anonymous emails and online accounts, including private communication..

 

https://nypost.com/2022/08/09/facebook-gave-teens-private-messages-about-alleged-abortion-to-police/

"Facebook gave teen’s private messages about alleged abortion to Nebraska police"

 

Did you see "Snowden" movie?

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3774114/

 

All these regulations are a "hacker's heaven"..

 If a hacker reached top politicians, he would ask for the kind of legislation they have implemented, because it helps hackers..

Edited August 11, 2022 by Sensei

[studiot]

36 minutes ago, Sensei said:

If a hacker reached top politicians, he would ask for the kind of legislation they have implemented

Thank you for your thoughts.

I see you have nearly as low an opinion of top politicians as I have.  +1

 

Not all the scams are computer fraud however, although last week we were treated to an extensive scam involving b__king.com.

People were turning up at folks doorsteps saying "We have arrived for our booking in your property"

Some property owners from London who were interviewed said that sometimes 3 or more separate parties turned up per day.
Some of the scammed visitors came from Hong Kong, Australia, New York and so on and were left accomodationless and holidayless in the middle of London as the owner had never had anything to do with b__k.com or intended to let out their home. This continued in some cases for months after the scam was reported.

So please don't plead the victimless crime argument.

[exchemist]

2 hours ago, studiot said:

Thank you for your thoughts.

I see you have nearly as low an opinion of top politicians as I have.  +1

 

Not all the scams are computer fraud however, although last week we were treated to an extensive scam involving b__king.com.

People were turning up at folks doorsteps saying "We have arrived for our booking in your property"

Some property owners from London who were interviewed said that sometimes 3 or more separate parties turned up per day.
Some of the scammed visitors came from Hong Kong, Australia, New York and so on and were left accomodationless and holidayless in the middle of London as the owner had never had anything to do with b__k.com or intended to let out their home. This continued in some cases for months after the scam was reported.

So please don't plead the victimless crime argument.

With all due respect that is a quite different issue from the one described in the BBC article that you linked in the OP. That BBC article is about people's addresses being falsely used as the legal registered company address, by scam companies. 

What you are now talking about is just one of the numerous internet scams, involving impersonation of a service provider in order to scam people.  

The scale of these scams is indeed shocking and well worthy of attracting far more vigorous action by law enforcement than it has received up to now. But it has nothing to do with Company registration or the operation of Companies House. 

 

[studiot]

1 hour ago, exchemist said:

With all due respect that is a quite different issue from the one described in the BBC article that you linked in the OP.

With equal respect, it is quite a different issue from , as stated, a different article the previous week.

But the issue that those who wish to be or become leaders must face is that they have to deal with all the issues that arise, not just some of them.

And that is the point of this thread, references to news articles are just examples of the manyfold issue currently arising in the last couple of week.

There is another one today about a serious case of hacking into the NHS.

[exchemist]

2 minutes ago, studiot said:

With equal respect, it is quite a different issue from , as stated, a different article the previous week.

But the issue that those who wish to be or become leaders must face is that they have to deal with all the issues that arise, not just some of them.

And that is the point of this thread, references to news articles are just examples of the manyfold issue currently arising in the last couple of week.

There is another one today about a serious case of hacking into the NHS.

So, then, is the thread topic just that politicians have to deal with all the real issues?  If so, I'm not sure that's true. "To govern is to choose", after all. They can't do everything all at once and they can't be everything to everyone. 

[Peterkin]

11 hours ago, studiot said:

I don't suppose any of the current tory tinyminds in the leadership race will do anything about this scandal or if the even know or care about it.

It shouldn't be up to them to deal with the problem directly. It should be a police matter. 

Elected officials should enact effective and up-to-date laws, then empower and equip their justice system to deal with criminal activity as it occurs, without any further interference from legislators. That's the theory. 

In fact, the officials are not up to date on new technology or trends in the kinds of threats and the concerns that citizens may be facing from day to day. Law-enforcement also tends to be considerably behind organized crime. If they have adequate specialized advice, they either don't understand it or ignore it ... or simply never get 'round to acting on it.

The systemic error - it seems to me - is the emphasis on elections, campaigning, propagandizing, canvassing, fund-raising, party-building, polling, strategizing, boozing and schmoozing, rather than the actual daily work of governance. The sojourn of any faction in power is too short and the process of getting there is too complicated, so they never have time to keep their eyes on the five dozen actual balls in play at any given moment, because they're already looking toward how to win the next scrum, the next challenge to their power, the next game. They have very little time - and, let's face it, with all the power-struggles, back-stabbing, backstage dealing and face-saving that saps their political stamina - very little ability or inclination, to do their actual job.   

Edited August 12, 2022 by Peterkin

[OldChemE]

4 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

The systemic error - it seems to me - is the emphasis on elections, campaigning, propagandizing, canvassing, fund-raising, party-building, polling, strategizing, boozing and schmoozing, rather than the actual daily work of governance. The sojourn of any faction in power is too short and the process of getting there is too complicated, so they never have time to keep their eyes on the five dozen actual balls in play at any given moment, because they're already looking toward how to win the next scrum, the next challenge to their power, the next game. They have very time - and, let's face it, with all the power-struggles, back-stabbing, backstage dealing and face-saving that saps their political stamina - very little ability, to do their actual job.   

Agree! One of the arguments in favor of term limits was that it was supposed to help with this, since a person in their final term has no need to prepare for re-election.  Unfortunately, a good friend of mine who is a California legislator has assured me that the problem with term limits (in this case two 6 year terms) is that "six years just isn't long enough to get to know your fellow legislators and get anything done."  How many of us who have jobs outside politics have an employer willing to let us take 6 years to begin to be effective in our jobs?

[Peterkin]

The whole process of electing representatives needs to be reorganized. Drastically. Nobody who got there by the method in place is willing to do that. Nobody who didn't has the power to do that.

[Sensei]

@studiot

Politicians in some countries have introduced legislation forcing/recommending/advising IT companies to introduce two-factor authentication, meaning that you (user of service) have to enter your phone number and receive an SMS to register and access your online account. If a hacker comes into possession of the IT company database, he/she will not only have your email, name and surname, but also your phone number. FB has leaked ~2.3 billion people's records already. Use Pegasus or Pegasus-like hole and get access to your phone. Check your mailbox and find out what bank account someone is using. Use a banking app to make a transfer or other operation on a bank account.. SMS with confirmation about the transfer will be sent to the same smartphone.. The bank will treat it as you would do it yourself. All communication between the smartphone and the bank's server will go through the smartphone, its IP and authorization data will be included. Complains about unauthorized operation will be ignored..

Studiot, I can call you in the middle of night. "Hello? Sensei Jesus speaking, Studiot"..

What for Google needs your phone number? For nothing!

What for YouTube needs your phone number? For nothing!

What for Facebook needs your phone number? For nothing!

What for Yahoo needs your phone number? For nothing!

10 hours ago, studiot said:

Not all the scams are computer fraud however,

How do you know?

10 hours ago, studiot said:

Not all the scams are computer fraud however, although last week we were treated to an extensive scam involving b__king.com.

People were turning up at folks doorsteps saying "We have arrived for our booking in your property"

https://www.google.com/search?q=booking.com+data+leak

"12 Feb 2022 — A massive data breach has been uncovered, totaling in excess of 172 GB of data and affecting an estimated 19 million people."

 

[exchemist]

7 hours ago, Peterkin said:

It shouldn't be up to them to deal with the problem directly. It should be a police matter. 

Elected officials should enact effective and up-to-date laws, then empower and equip their justice system to deal with criminal activity as it occurs, without any further interference from legislators. That's the theory. 

In fact, the officials are not up to date on new technology or trends in the kinds of threats and the concerns that citizens may be facing from day to day. Law-enforcement also tends to be considerably behind organized crime. If they have adequate specialized advice, they either don't understand it or ignore it ... or simply never get 'round to acting on it.

The systemic error - it seems to me - is the emphasis on elections, campaigning, propagandizing, canvassing, fund-raising, party-building, polling, strategizing, boozing and schmoozing, rather than the actual daily work of governance. The sojourn of any faction in power is too short and the process of getting there is too complicated, so they never have time to keep their eyes on the five dozen actual balls in play at any given moment, because they're already looking toward how to win the next scrum, the next challenge to their power, the next game. They have very little time - and, let's face it, with all the power-struggles, back-stabbing, backstage dealing and face-saving that saps their political stamina - very little ability or inclination, to do their actual job.   

This is the argument for offloading this sort of highly technical supervision to an independent regulator, whose office is composed of long term professionals and who can come to the legislators from time to time with requests for legislation to help enforcement as required.

The problem then is the "small government" politicians will moan about "unelected bureaucrats" , when the whole point is to get people who are NOT elected to do the job, so that some degree of professional expertise can be brought to bear. 

[studiot]

5 hours ago, Sensei said:

Studiot, I can call you in the middle of night. "Hello? Sensei Jesus speaking, Studiot"..

Of course you can, the number is still on my website.

However the last time I fixed Jesus' computer it was for eternity, so I would know immediately that the call was a scam.

 

5 hours ago, Sensei said:

How do you know?

An fraud that has been going around quite some years runs like this, though there are several variations.

 

A uniformed person or pair turn up at the front door of proababklly an elderly slightly confused person and claim that they are police officers who are tracking criminals who have hacked your bank account.

Sometimes they can persuade the person to go to their bank and withdraw a large sum to place with the police as bait so they can catch the alleged criminals.

Of course they simply make off with the cash in the "unmarked police car" and are never seen again.

 

I have an elderly relative who fell for this one to the tune of £10,000

1 hour ago, exchemist said:

This is the argument for offloading this sort of highly technical supervision to an independent regulator, whose office is composed of long term professionals and who can come to the legislators from time to time with requests for legislation to help enforcement as required.

The problem then is the "small government" politicians will moan about "unelected bureaucrats" , when the whole point is to get people who are NOT elected to do the job, so that some degree of professional expertise can be brought to bear. 

 

The problem then is that the politician, large or small, has someone else to blame when thing go wrong, but want all the credit when they go right.

But even the bureaucrats play this game. UK ministries are forever employing 'arms length contractors' for this purpose.

[exchemist]

19 minutes ago, studiot said:

Of course you can, the number is still on my website.

However the last time I fixed Jesus' computer it was for eternity, so I would know immediately that the call was a scam.

 

An fraud that has been going around quite some years runs like this, though there are several variations.

 

A uniformed person or pair turn up at the front door of proababklly an elderly slightly confused person and claim that they are police officers who are tracking criminals who have hacked your bank account.

Sometimes they can persuade the person to go to their bank and withdraw a large sum to place with the police as bait so they can catch the alleged criminals.

Of course they simply make off with the cash in the "unmarked police car" and are never seen again.

 

I have an elderly relative who fell for this one to the tune of £10,000

 

The problem then is that the politician, large or small, has someone else to blame when thing go wrong, but want all the credit when they go right.

But even the bureaucrats play this game. UK ministries are forever employing 'arms length contractors' for this purpose.

Sure. But then that's just the way of the world generally: success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan. The important thing is to have a system that is effective. 

In my opinion, one of the most dangerous trends in modern politics is the belittling of expertise. "We've had enough of experts" is the road to ruin - as we can see around us. 

[Peterkin]

4 hours ago, exchemist said:

This is the argument for offloading this sort of highly technical supervision to an independent regulator, whose office is composed of long term professionals and who can come to the legislators from time to time with requests for legislation to help enforcement as required.

Yes, Minister! Despise the civil service as we may, that's who runs the government. Break up the government agencies, as the constitution-changing red states https://www.npr.org/2016/02/04/465593798/rewrite-the-constitution-several-states-are-trying-to  intend to do; decapitate them and put incompetent cronies in charge, as some presidents do; defund and defang them as some administrations do - and the country simply stops working.  

There are two further complications: the layers and separate powers of governments - municipal, regional and national jurisdictions - alongside the public-private divide of responsibility means that many issues fall through the gaps between them. An even bigger one: Co-ordination and prioritization of policing efforts. 

3 hours ago, studiot said:

But even the bureaucrats play this game. UK ministries are forever employing 'arms length contractors' for this purpose.

That is a huge problem in all government business everywhere. Downloading their responsibility on a for-profit (for sale!) agent. Whereupon, everything from health-care to road construction to dam maintenance and garbage collection declines in quality as it increases in cost.

Edited August 12, 2022 by Peterkin

[dimreepr]

52 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

Yes, Minister! Despise the civil service as we may, that's who runs the government. Break up the government agencies, as the constitution-changing red states https://www.npr.org/2016/02/04/465593798/rewrite-the-constitution-several-states-are-trying-to  intend to do; decapitate them and put incompetent cronies in charge, as some presidents do; defund and defang them as some administrations do - and the country simply stops working.

It's positively Socratian, we vote for the noisy to keep the quiet from making a noise; the problem is, in a democracy every vote should count, we're not in a democracy.

For instance, the average person on the street isn't qualified to be a judge in a court of law, but enough average people with professional/impartial guidance, are above average in coming to the correct conclusion.