Random, Spontaneous, Fate, or Free Will? How does the Brain process decisions?

[chrisjones]

 Random, Spontaneous, Fate, or Free Will? How does the Brain process decisions?

I have pondered the idea that we impact the timeline of other people by the actions we take on the road whilst driving for example and throughout our lives. If I let this guy out of the junction will his timeline be affected in a minor way for the rest of his life, will he get to the interview on time for example? But also if such decisions are random, spontaneous, free will, or fate. I posted the idea several years ago and suggested that at the quantum level errors in the way the brain processes information and the process by which our brains calculate decisions actually cause a degree of randomness or errors in our consciousness much like errors in the output from quantum computers that have to be corrected. That is to say that errors occur at the interface between quantum information and the brain. And that perhaps we are not slaves to either free will or fate, but to a tiny degree, our thought process is impacted by errors at the quantum level and therefore random to a degree.

[exchemist]

1 hour ago, chrisjones said:

 Random, Spontaneous, Fate, or Free Will? How does the Brain process decisions?

I have pondered the idea that we impact the timeline of other people by the actions we take on the road whilst driving for example and throughout our lives. If I let this guy out of the junction will his timeline be affected in a minor way for the rest of his life, will he get to the interview on time for example? But also if such decisions are random, spontaneous, free will, or fate. I posted the idea several years ago and suggested that at the quantum level errors in the way the brain processes information and the process by which our brains calculate decisions actually cause a degree of randomness or errors in our consciousness much like errors in the output from quantum computers that have to be corrected. That is to say that errors occur at the interface between quantum information and the brain. And that perhaps we are not slaves to either free will or fate, but to a tiny degree, our thought process is impacted by errors at the quantum level and therefore random to a degree.

Why do you think quantum effects have an impact on neural processing? I'd have thought that synaptic connections and neural impulses would be macroscopic, rather than quantum scale, processes. 

[Sensei]

21 minutes ago, exchemist said:

Why do you think quantum effects have an impact on neural processing?

Why do you think quantum effects have no impact on neural processing?

Everything in the macro is just a "quantum effect," only multiplied and repeated in billions of various interactions.

[exchemist]

2 hours ago, Sensei said:

Why do you think quantum effects have no impact on neural processing?

Everything in the macro is just a "quantum effect," only multiplied and repeated in billions of various interactions.

It is trivially true that macro scale properties are emergent from ensembles of quantum interactions. But that is distinct from specifically quantum effects manifesting themselves at the macro scale. In general they don't. And, as far as I am aware, quantum effects don't ned to be invoked to account for the  operation of neural processes, though I'm open to correction from someone with more knowledge of the subject. (The only people I know of who think differently are the proponents of Orch OR, but that theory seemed to have failed and is not taken seriously any more.) 

Edited September 6, 2022 by exchemist

[swansont]

4 hours ago, chrisjones said:

And that perhaps we are not slaves to either free will or fate, but to a tiny degree, our thought process is impacted by errors at the quantum level and therefore random to a degree.

Can you describe how our thought process occurs at the quantum level? 

[Eise]

5 hours ago, chrisjones said:

perhaps we are not slaves to either free will or fate

'Slave of free will' is a contradiction.

[chrisjones]

17 hours ago, swansont said:

Can you describe how our thought process occurs at the quantum level? 

Firstly I realize that this idea is currently a novel concept but I have posted it in the interest of discussion.

Hi, Swanson, I will reply to your question as it provides my answer to everybody so far in this thread. Firstly I think I should replace (That is to say that errors occur at the interface between quantum information and the brain.) With (That is to say that miscalculations occur at the interface between quantum information and the brain.)
But to answer your question specifically, I think that much like the butterfly effect on a global scale the butterfly effect may also apply on a micro/macro scale in the brain, meaning that small miscalculations can be compounded and magnified particularly if several miscalculations occur at the quantum/brain interface simultationously to the level of consciousness that we observe what we perceive as spontaneous or inexplicable behavior in an individual. But also that it pertains to the creation of spontaneous original ideas by the brain, and that at the subliminal level our thought processes may be impacted subtlely by miscalculations at the quantum information/ brain interface. But the natural assumption from this novel idea is that the brain must constantly attempt to correct these miscalculations in order to function effectively.

Edited September 7, 2022 by chrisjones

[exchemist]

16 hours ago, Eise said:

'Slave of free will' is a contradiction.

Didn’t Sartre speak of Man being “condemned to be free”? 

He was using oxymoron, but perhaps our poster is, too.

[chrisjones]

1 hour ago, exchemist said:

Didn’t Sartre speak of Man being “condemned to be free”? 

He was using oxymoron, but perhaps our poster is, too.

Hi, I had a particularly bad seizure yesterday and I'm beginning to think I may have developed epilepsy and not just a vasovagal syncope, so don't feel like doing much today. However, I will explain my logic on the concept of free will. Free will is a very complex concept that has many attributes and influences. From local culture and laws, traditions, and constraints, to personal perceptions, other influences, social constraints, and perceptions of social acceptance, etc. One also has to ask if we are truly free to do as we wish even in the most liberal of democracies. However, I would like to keep to the original topic if that's ok?

[exchemist]

31 minutes ago, chrisjones said:

Hi, I had a particularly bad seizure yesterday and I'm beginning to think I may have developed epilepsy and not just a vasovagal syncope, so don't feel like doing much today. However, I will explain my logic on the concept of free will. Free will is a very complex concept that has many attributes and influences. From local culture and laws, traditions, and constraints, to personal perceptions, other influences, social constraints, and perceptions of social acceptance, etc. One also has to ask if we are truly free to do as we wish even in the most liberal of democracies. However, I would like to keep to the original topic if that's ok?

I was just trying to offer you a bit of support, actually. 

[swansont]

4 hours ago, chrisjones said:

Firstly I realize that this idea is currently a novel concept but I have posted it in the interest of discussion.

Hi, Swanson, I will reply to your question as it provides my answer to everybody so far in this thread. Firstly I think I should replace (That is to say that errors occur at the interface between quantum information and the brain.) With (That is to say that miscalculations occur at the interface between quantum information and the brain.)
But to answer your question specifically, I think that much like the butterfly effect on a global scale the butterfly effect may also apply on a micro/macro scale in the brain, meaning that small miscalculations can be compounded and magnified particularly if several miscalculations occur at the quantum/brain interface simultationously to the level of consciousness that we observe what we perceive as spontaneous or inexplicable behavior in an individual. But also that it pertains to the creation of spontaneous original ideas by the brain, and that at the subliminal level our thought processes may be impacted subtlely by miscalculations at the quantum information/ brain interface. But the natural assumption from this novel idea is that the brain must constantly attempt to correct these miscalculations in order to function effectively.

That sounds like “no”

If you can’t describe the process, how can you analyze any “errors” that occur?

[chrisjones]

 

23 hours ago, chrisjones said:

Firstly I realize that this idea is currently a novel concept but I have posted it in the interest of discussion.

Hi, Swanson, I will reply to your question as it provides my answer to everybody so far in this thread. Firstly I think I should replace (That is to say that errors occur at the interface between quantum information and the brain.) With (That is to say that miscalculations occur at the interface between quantum information and the brain.)
But to answer your question specifically, I think that much like the butterfly effect on a global scale the butterfly effect may also apply on a micro/macro scale in the brain, meaning that small miscalculations can be compounded and magnified particularly if several miscalculations occur at the quantum/brain interface simultationously to the level of consciousness that we observe what we perceive as spontaneous or inexplicable behavior in an individual. But also that it pertains to the creation of spontaneous original ideas by the brain, and that at the subliminal level our thought processes may be impacted subtlely by miscalculations at the quantum information/ brain interface. But the natural assumption from this novel idea is that the brain must constantly attempt to correct these miscalculations in order to function effectively.

 

19 hours ago, swansont said:

That sounds like “no”

If you can’t describe the process, how can you analyze any “errors” that occur?

Hi again swansot, firstly this is my last reply on the subject in this thread. As I have pointed out in another thread I experience short periods where I have spontaneous ideas and a heightened sense of vivid imagination however that feeling has left me this morning. Although I always have a sense of heightened psychological clarity immediately as I awaken from sleep that lasts about 5 minutes before my perception of the real world comes crashing back in to replace it. To that end, I did have had this final thought this morning in the context of this thread. But firstly to answer your question specifically, I think you are asking a casual hobbyist a question that would require the best minds in this genre to answer and would also require millions of dollars of research funding. I have also quoted my previous  reply to you to provide context  to specifically make a point about my thoughts on the butterfly effect applying to the brain . The process that I visualize by which quantum information is processed and sometimes miscalculated by the brain is actually 
The butterfly effect that is then expressed in the form of the butterfly affect in the brain.

[exchemist]

1 hour ago, chrisjones said:

 

 

Hi again swansot, firstly this is my last reply on the subject in this thread. As I have pointed out in another thread I experience short periods where I have spontaneous ideas and a heightened sense of vivid imagination however that feeling has left me this morning. Although I always have a sense of heightened psychological clarity immediately as I awaken from sleep that lasts about 5 minutes before my perception of the real world comes crashing back in to replace it. To that end, I did have had this final thought this morning in the context of this thread. But firstly to answer your question specifically, I think you are asking a casual hobbyist a question that would require the best minds in this genre to answer and would also require millions of dollars of research funding. I have also quoted my previous  reply to you to provide context  to specifically make a point about my thoughts on the butterfly effect applying to the brain . The process that I visualize by which quantum information is processed and sometimes miscalculated by the brain is actually 
The butterfly effect that is then expressed in the form of the butterfly affect in the brain.

So this is just an uninformed speculation on your part, then? That's fair enough, but you did put this thread in Biology, in the form of an actual science question.

In science, you can't just make stuff up. You can have a wild idea of course, but them you need to support it with evidence, from actual observation of nature. There does not seem to be any evidence that quantum phenomena play a role in neural processes. The last people that went down this road were Hameroff and Penrose, with Orch OR, which in the end went nowhere (i.e. it made predictions that were not borne out by observation).  

[swansont]

4 hours ago, chrisjones said:

Hi again swansot, firstly this is my last reply on the subject in this thread. As I have pointed out in another thread I experience short periods where I have spontaneous ideas and a heightened sense of vivid imagination however that feeling has left me this morning. Although I always have a sense of heightened psychological clarity immediately as I awaken from sleep that lasts about 5 minutes before my perception of the real world comes crashing back in to replace it. To that end, I did have had this final thought this morning in the context of this thread. But firstly to answer your question specifically, I think you are asking a casual hobbyist a question that would require the best minds in this genre to answer and would also require millions of dollars of research funding.

So you made what looks to be a factual claim, but then admit it was a WAG. That's really not how things work here. You can ask questions or you can present ideas, but the ideas have to have some level of rigor. And you seem to be following a pattern, and this does not end well.

You will quickly use up your allotment of goodwill if this trend continues.

4 hours ago, chrisjones said:

 

I have also quoted my previous  reply to you to provide context  to specifically make a point about my thoughts on the butterfly effect applying to the brain . The process that I visualize by which quantum information is processed and sometimes miscalculated by the brain is actually 
The butterfly effect that is then expressed in the form of the butterfly affect in the brain.

The problem here is that if you don't know how the quantum effects occur, there's no way to assess what "errors" are occurring. There no science, just your buzzwords. It needs to stop.