Elizabeth II, 1926-2022

[TheVat]

BALMORAL, Scotland, Sept 8 (Reuters) - Queen Elizabeth, Britain's longest-reigning monarch, the nation's figurehead and a towering presence on the world stage for seven decades, died peacefully at her home in Scotland on Thursday aged 96.

"The death of my beloved Mother, Her Majesty The Queen, is a moment of the greatest sadness for me and all members of my family," the new king, her eldest son Charles, said.

"We mourn profoundly the passing of a cherished Sovereign and a much-loved mother. I know her loss will be deeply felt throughout the country, the Realms and the Commonwealth, and by countless people around the world," the 73-year-old said in a statement.

Very best of luck to Charles III.  Was the longest serving Prince of Wales.  

 

[geordief]

1 hour ago, TheVat said:

BALMORAL, Scotland, Sept 8 (Reuters) - Queen Elizabeth, Britain's longest-reigning monarch, the nation's figurehead and a towering presence on the world stage for seven decades, died peacefully at her home in Scotland on Thursday aged 96.

"The death of my beloved Mother, Her Majesty The Queen, is a moment of the greatest sadness for me and all members of my family," the new king, her eldest son Charles, said.

"We mourn profoundly the passing of a cherished Sovereign and a much-loved mother. I know her loss will be deeply felt throughout the country, the Realms and the Commonwealth, and by countless people around the world," the 73-year-old said in a statement.

Very best of luck to Charles III.  Was the longest serving Prince of Wales.  

 

British Republicans will  not wish him luck but an end to the monarchy. 

[StringJunky]

In her last public photo she looked just like anybody's grandma, I thought, like, finally she'd done away with her usual deportment and facial control. She was just herself... a smiling old lady. A fitting final image.

Edited September 8, 2022 by StringJunky

[Peterkin]

I'm neither British nor a monarchist. But I had a lot of respect for that old lady.

She did her job well, faithfully and bravely, and sometimes in very trying conditions. 

Times like this, I wish I believed in an afterlife. I'd like to think she's somewhere, having a good talk with Ruth Bader Ginsburg. 

[zapatos]

35 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

She did her job well, faithfully and bravely, and sometimes in very trying conditions. 

 

What exactly was her job? What would change in how the government of England works if that role was removed?

I'm American so this could just be my ignorance speaking, but it looks like her job was no more than being kind of a grandma to everyone.

I don't have much of an opinion of her one way or the other as I've never really seen her do much. I know she was much loved and thus feel for those who suffer her loss.

[Peterkin]

9 minutes ago, zapatos said:

What exactly was her job?

Many and various, but at its center were two main principles: bolstering the spirit of her people, especially in peril and hard times, and maintaining sound diplomatic relations with the Commonwealth. I don't pretend to know how it all fit - nations, their histories, attitudes and sentiments, are complicated - but it seemed to work. 

In any case, whether I personally value a particular job make no difference: I respect anyone who gets up every morning, resolved to carry out to the best of their ability whatever they believe they should be doing. 

17 minutes ago, zapatos said:

What would change in how the government of England works if that role was removed?

We may be about to find out. Certainly some things, and probably quite a lot we [especially outsiders] haven't considered.

 

 

21 minutes ago, zapatos said:

it looks like her job was no more than being kind of a grandma to everyone.

That's only latterly. She and GB have a much longer history together.

[Endy0816]

1 hour ago, StringJunky said:

In her last public photo she looked just like anybody's grandma, I thought, like, finally she'd done away with her usual deportment and facial control. She was just herself... a smiling old lady. A fitting final image.

Definitely.

[StringJunky]

12 minutes ago, zapatos said:

What exactly was her job? What would change in how the government of England works if that role was removed?

I'm American so this could just be my ignorance speaking, but it looks like her job was no more than being kind of a grandma to everyone.

I don't have much of an opinion of her one way or the other as I've never really seen her do much. I know she was much loved and thus feel for those who suffer her loss.

I forget the details. Although it has been just a formal  ritual, The Royal Assent is like the final consent by the monarch, which they could in principle refuse to give. The armed forces, judiciary technically serve the monarch. Obviously, the monarch has advisers and they inform them if political procedures have been correctly executed according to law. If we had a potential despotic ruling party/leader, they can command the security services to not obey illegal political orders from the errant leadership. Something like that. The monarchy is, in principle,  an insurance against catastrophic political instability. I remember reading a comment on loyalty by a naval officer just after the Falklands war saying: "I'm dying for no bloody politician".

 

[MigL]

She had little to do with governance, Zap.
Mostly she was a figurehead; a reminder to the British people of days gone by.

It may be hard to believe, but her 'job' was very demanding, as she had to keep up 'appearances' and could not enjoy the simple pleasures of family and friends that most of us take for granted.
The rest of her family, including the new king in waiting, seem to be failing miserably at that job.

She kept the monarchy going, and, for better or worse, I don't believe it will last with her gone.
May she rest in peace.

[TheVat]

Well I hope Charles III fares better than the previous two Charleses.

One beheaded, one died of mercury poisoning.  Even if he is reduced in any monarchical role, I hope this offers him some platform to keep promoting green energy and ecological stewardship.  It's good to be Green.  

[Peterkin]

But not easy! It's not easy being Charles, either.

[zapatos]

 

44 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

The monarchy is, in principle,  an insurance against catastrophic political instability.

That's an interesting role. I'm not sure how it could play out but if it can then it is certainly worth having.

32 minutes ago, MigL said:

She had little to do with governance, Zap.
Mostly she was a figurehead; a reminder to the British people of days gone by.

That makes sense, and is certainly the way it appears to me. While these days you don't see many peoples choosing to give an automatic "leadership" role based on nothing more than the order in which a child was spawned by a specific individual, the monarchy has hundreds of years of inertia and I'm sure some fond memories for many.

[Peterkin]

16 minutes ago, zapatos said:

While these days you don't see many peoples choosing to give an automatic "leadership" role based on nothing more than the order in which a child was spawned by a specific individual,

Does that belong here? One could find ways to describe how various nations choose their leaders that are no more flattering, but we could maybe avoid them for a day or two after the death of someone a lot of people admired, whatever their reason for doing so. 

[zapatos]

7 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

Does that belong here? One could find ways to describe how various nations choose their leaders that are no more flattering, but we could maybe avoid them for a day or two after the death of someone a lot of people admired, whatever their reason for doing so. 

Sorry I hurt your feelings. I didn't know you were such an emotional person. Glad I didn't actually say anything about the person who died.

Your head would have exploded if you had read the comment by professor Uju Anya of Carnegie Mellon University.

I just couldn't get myself to write the type flowery bullshit you spit out with this gem: 

Quote

 

She did her job well, faithfully and bravely, and sometimes in very trying conditions. 

The only thing missing was a tears emoji.

 

[StringJunky]

39 minutes ago, zapatos said:

Sorry I hurt your feelings. I didn't know you were such an emotional person. Glad I didn't actually say anything about the person who died.

Your head would have exploded if you had read the comment by professor Uju Anya of Carnegie Mellon University.

I just couldn't get myself to write the type flowery bullshit you spit out with this gem: 

The only thing missing was a tears emoji.

 

That's the effect she has on some people. I'm guessing her funeral is going to be like no other. 'Flowery' is going to be a major thing for the near future here. I shall miss seeing her hats!  

Edited September 9, 2022 by StringJunky

[zapatos]

6 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

That's the effect she has on some people. I'm guessing her funeral is going to be like no other. 'Flowery' is going to be a major thing for the near future here. I shall miss seeing her hats!  

The thing I most often hear from people is that they think she was a woman with tremendous character who always tried to do the right thing.

[StringJunky]

14 minutes ago, zapatos said:

The thing I most often hear from people is that they think she was a woman with tremendous character who always tried to do the right thing.

Even Putin is doing her the honours, despite the conflict. I noticed he snubbed Gorbachev's funeral. Strange time.

Quote

In a message to Charles, Britain's new king, Putin said the Queen "rightfully enjoyed the love and respect of her subjects, as well as authority on the world stage".

He added: "I wish you courage and resilience in the face of this difficult, irreparable loss. May I ask you to pass on sincere condolences and support to members of the royal family and the entire people of Great Britain."

 

The shutdown schedule is commencing:

Quote

Will events be cancelled?
Sporting fixtures scheduled on Friday have largely been cancelled, including football matches in the English Football League and Northern Ireland Football League.

All racing has been postponed by the British Horseracing Authority, and in golf there will be no play at the BMW PGA Championship on Friday.

Stage six of the Tour of Britain cycling race, set to take place on Friday, will not go ahead. And the second day of the Test cricket match between England and South Africa on Friday has been postponed, with no confirmation on whether the rest of the five-day game will take place.

The BBC Proms on Thursday and Friday have been cancelled, along with the Last Night of the Proms on Saturday.

Theatre performances across the UK are expected to continue, observing a minute's silence. The award ceremony of the Mercury Music Prize was cancelled on Thursday evening after the news was announced.

Will rail and postal strikes go ahead?
The Rail, Maritime and Transport (RMT) union has announced that planned strikes on 15 and 17 September will be cancelled as a mark of respect. The Transport Salaried Staffs Association has also called off planned strikes in September.

Postal strikes on Friday have also been cancelled by the Communication Workers Union (CWU). - BBC

 

Edited September 9, 2022 by StringJunky

[exchemist]

5 hours ago, MigL said:

She had little to do with governance, Zap.
Mostly she was a figurehead; a reminder to the British people of days gone by.

It may be hard to believe, but her 'job' was very demanding, as she had to keep up 'appearances' and could not enjoy the simple pleasures of family and friends that most of us take for granted.
The rest of her family, including the new king in waiting, seem to be failing miserably at that job.

She kept the monarchy going, and, for better or worse, I don't believe it will last with her gone.
May she rest in peace.

Oh I think the monarchy will last. It would take a revolution to get rid of it and we're not going to do that unless we get a really bad monarch at some point.

As for the role of the monarchy, the more I look at recent US politics the more value I see in separating the roles of head of state and head of government. Many republics in fact do this, not just the (fairly numerous) monarchies of Europe. Even a merely ceremonial head of state provides an alternative centre of power to the that of the government: power based on national psychology and personal loyalty. That division of power is a good thing in my view. We can (and often do) despise the various heads of government and the political factions that come and go under our democratic process, but the king or queen sits above all that and can provide continuity and a focus of unity for the country. When I contemplate the Trump years in the USA, I think our constitutional monarchy may not be such a bad system after all. 

The challenge Charles III faces is modernising the monarchy in a way that enables it to continue to command respect and loyalty from British citizens. I think he may be quite a good king, but he won't have long to make his mark, as he's already in his 70s.

[Intoscience]

2 hours ago, zapatos said:

The thing I most often hear from people is that they think she was a woman with tremendous character who always tried to do the right thing.

The people that knew her well personally all say the same thing about her, that she was very intelligent, diligent, hard working and committed to her duty. But above all she had a sense of humour and was very personable showing care and sympathy not only for those close to her but for all people.

In answer to what was her job, well she was a leader. Not in the sense of like a general or president etc.. but as a role model. She did lots of diplomatic work helping to secure relations between many nations. Her responsibilities go far deeper than what may have been portrayed. 

5 hours ago, MigL said:

The rest of her family, including the new king in waiting, seem to be failing miserably at that job.

Though there has been lots of scandal over the years with many members of the royal family I don't think its fair to say that Charles has failed miserably. He is portrayed in a poor light and probably unduly lost much respect because of the all the events around his divorce with Diana and then this compounded more so by her sudden and tragic death. 

Charles is much like his mother in many ways, and shares many of her values. I think we should give him a fair crack at the whip before condemning him at this early stage. He has big shoes to fill (not literally she was a tiny lady) and its going to be a tough time to try and live up to his mother's legacy. Lets hope he steps up to the mark and proves that he is a worthy successor to the throne.

[joigus]

They say she passed peacefully. She must have thought the 20th Century was but a bad dream. Rest in peace.

@zapatos,

Suppose you're the owner of an old machine. It's been working for many centuries. It's old, but reliable. Would you re-design it while it's running?

 

[John Cuthber]

8 hours ago, Peterkin said:

I respect anyone who gets up every morning, resolved to carry out to the best of their ability whatever they believe they should be doing. 

Really?
I'm sure Peter Sutcliffe would have been grateful for your support 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Sutcliffe
He went to jail for doing what he believed was the right thing.

[Peterkin]

9 hours ago, zapatos said:

Sorry I hurt your feelings.

Sorry for the misunderstanding: none of this was about me. 

That reference was to ordinary good manners as regards obituaries.

The monarchy does have significance for many British citizens and expatriates, and even quite a few in the Commonwealth countries. In my unhumble opinion, it's inappropriate to insult them in a moment of sorrow, even if you don't understand what they're sad about.

3 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

I'm sure Peter Sutcliffe would have been grateful for your support 

And all the Christian martyrs. *sigh* In another venue, I'll be happy to discuss how such attitudes and monsters are formed. 

[geordief]

9 hours ago, zapatos said:

Sorry I hurt your feelings. I didn't know you were such an emotional person. Glad I didn't actually say anything about the person who died.

Your head would have exploded if you had read the comment by professor Uju Anya of Carnegie Mellon University.

I just couldn't get myself to write the type flowery bullshit you spit out with this gem: 

The only thing missing was a tears emoji.

 

You are right . We need balance and the emotional steplock  is  sickening. I can still hear them  on the radio  referring to the dead woman as "Her Majesty"

Edited September 9, 2022 by geordief

[zapatos]

54 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

The monarchy does have significance for many British citizens and expatriates, and even quite a few in the Commonwealth countries. In my unhumble opinion, it's inappropriate to insult them in a moment of sorrow, even if you don't understand what they're sad about.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. None of this was about insulting anyone, which is a complete mischaracterization of what I said. I spoke of the system used to choose a ruler. I DID insult that system.

If you don't mind, can we bring this back to the Queen, and not about your desire to have everyone else follow your particular set of Rules of Etiquette? You are making this about YOU.

[John Cuthber]

46 minutes ago, geordief said:

I can still hear them  on the radio  referring to the dead woman as "Her Majesty"

Well... that is her title.
It's like referring to Biden as "president".
What do you expect them to call her "Granny Windsor"?