"The New Dark Ages"

[toucana]

A recent MSNBC segment called ‘The New Dark Ages’  looks into the recent banning of 54 Mathematics textbooks from schools by the Florida Department of Education, a sanction subsequently endorsed by Florida governor Ron de Santis at a press conference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrJXammBAFE

The Maths textbooks in question, many of which are for K-5 grade elementary students, were banned by the Florida authorities because they allegedly incorporate “prohibited topics and strategies” including references to CRT (Critical Race Theory) -  which is usually taught as a college level subject.

Journalist Judd Legum who is the founder of the online Public Information Newsletter obtained copies of eight of these banned tetxbooks, but his researchers could only find one example of any passing reference to race in any of these banned textbooks  - it appears in a set of marginalia about notable mathematicians in history.

[Peterkin]

I've had glimpses of other examples. The objectionable material seems to be in the form of illustrations to accompany arithmetic problems. The line-drawings or coloured cartoons show children of different ethnic backgrounds and sexes playing together or co-operating in some way. De Santis and his hate-full ilk are afraid Floridian children may be infected with subliminal tolerance.  

And there was also that one (count it - 1) example of a graph showing racial prejudice in demographic groups. 

[paulsutton]

On 9/14/2022 at 2:34 PM, Peterkin said:

I've had glimpses of other examples. The objectionable material seems to be in the form of illustrations to accompany arithmetic problems. The line-drawings or coloured cartoons show children of different ethnic backgrounds and sexes playing together or co-operating in some way. De Santis and his hate-full ilk are afraid Floridian children may be infected with subliminal tolerance.  

And there was also that one (count it - 1) example of a graph showing racial prejudice in demographic groups. 

How is this a reason to ban books in 2022.   I can understand this happening in Germany during the 1930s  I would have hoped we had moved on since then, perhaps not.

[StringJunky]

On 9/14/2022 at 2:34 PM, Peterkin said:

I've had glimpses of other examples. The objectionable material seems to be in the form of illustrations to accompany arithmetic problems. The line-drawings or coloured cartoons show children of different ethnic backgrounds and sexes playing together or co-operating in some way. De Santis and his hate-full ilk are afraid Floridian children may be infected with subliminal tolerance.  

And there was also that one (count it - 1) example of a graph showing racial prejudice in demographic groups. 

I have to say that putting politically-charged subjects into class lessons that don't require them does annoy me. When one starts sliding such materials into coursework, it smacks of indoctrination. 

[exchemist]

35 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

I have to say that putting politically-charged subjects into class lessons that don't require them does annoy me. When one starts sliding such materials into coursework, it smacks of indoctrination. 

Yes I agree. However it is normal in most western countries for illustrations in children's books to show a mixture of sexes and ethnicities, simply to make sure all the children see the book, and the subject, as being "for them". Especially perhaps with maths, as this has some baggage of -ve stereotyping, viz. a history of being seen as "nerdy", or "for boys" and so forth.  So if that's all it is, then it's disgraceful that books are withdrawn for it.  

[StringJunky]

1 hour ago, exchemist said:

Yes I agree. However it is normal in most western countries for illustrations in children's books to show a mixture of sexes and ethnicities, simply to make sure all the children see the book, and the subject, as being "for them". Especially perhaps with maths, as this has some baggage of -ve stereotyping, viz. a history of being seen as "nerdy", or "for boys" and so forth.  So if that's all it is, then it's disgraceful that books are withdrawn for it.  

I only brought that up because I suffered a maths course that used gender pay inequalities as illustrations in an OU course. I agree though, materials should represent those reading it, if it's appropriate.

Edited September 23, 2022 by StringJunky

[Peterkin]

2 hours ago, StringJunky said:

have to say that putting politically-charged subjects into class lessons that don't require them does annoy me. When one starts sliding such materials into coursework, it smacks of indoctrination. 

It's Florida. The children have seen one another already in the schoolyard and on the street; they know that some of them are different colours and genders. Dick and Jane were ultra white, because that was the author's world, but Leroy and Juanita and Aaron might well have got the impression that they were not welcome On Cherry Street, or in that classroom. And they would have been correct!

25 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

I only brought that up because I suffered a maths course that used gender pay inequalities as illustrations in an OU course.

I'm not sure mathematically accurate facts count as sliding in indoctrination, any more than train schedules or mortgage rates do. Examples from real life - the real, daily lives of the people taking the course - seem to me fair game. The unconscious bias graph, I do have some trouble with in elementary school. But by the time they're old enough to enlist, they should be aware of the inequalities and tensions in their country.

Politically charged material that's banned from the classroom tends to resolve itself on the barricades.

4 hours ago, paulsutton said:

I can understand this happening in Germany during the 1930s  I would have hoped we had moved on since then, perhaps not.

Germany wasn't any more special then than Florida and Hungary are now. There was a terrifying Doctor Who episode about an alternative England. Humans go 'round in cycles. My SO was holding forth on the madness of our age and how it may never have been this bad before, so I looked out a documentary on the late Middle Ages. There have never been so many of us before to go mad all at once. I'd like to see the Romantics back before I die, but it ain't gonna happen. 

Edited September 23, 2022 by Peterkin

[StringJunky]

30 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

I'm not sure mathematically accurate facts count as sliding in indoctrination, any more than train schedules or mortgage rates do. Examples from real life - the real, daily lives of the people taking the course - seem to me fair game. The unconscious bias graph, I do have some trouble with in elementary school. But by the time they're old enough to enlist, they should be aware of the inequalities and tensions in their country.

Politically charged material that's banned from the classroom tends to resolve itself on the barricades

Well, that's a first...  you are never not sure.  I didn't want a whole course about female pay inequality. Thanks. Even my tutor thought course designers had pushed the subject too much. 

Edited September 23, 2022 by StringJunky

[TheVat]

Still unclear...was pay inequality just used as an example of some graphing operation or was the social issue somehow becoming the focus of a math class?  If the former, seems okay. If the latter, then that would be a weird math course.

That said, any graph that tracks human activity could be seen as politically charged by someone.  Even if it was a graph correlating rates of cookie consumption and divorce.  Someone could say the book had an agenda about divorced people stress-eating.

[paulsutton]

6 minutes ago, TheVat said:

Still unclear...was pay inequality just used as an example of some graphing operation or was the social issue somehow becoming the focus of a math class?  If the former, seems okay. If the latter, then that would be a weird math course.

That said, any graph that tracks human activity could be seen as politically charged by someone.  Even if it was a graph correlating rates of cookie consumption and divorce.  Someone could say the book had an agenda about divorced people stress-eating.

Surely at University level the information presented should be clear,  and it should be clear where and how the data was collected.  How else can you then make an interpretation without knowing all the facts.

[TheVat]

I meant that I was unclear on what Stringy experienced in his math class re intrusive social issues.  The topic had turned to whether or not graphing examples could be distracting from the math, if they concerned political issues.  

[Peterkin]

50 minutes ago, paulsutton said:

Surely at University level the information presented should be clear,  and it should be clear where and how the data was collected. 

That was kind of my take on it, too. By 19 or 20, the students should not be so impressionable that learning some statistics of their society can indoctrinate them. It seems tome, they need to know about the number of wrongful incarcerations, just as they need to know the number of highway fatalities, the rate of divorce and morbid obesity, as well as the prime lending rate and stock index. It's possible for academics and authors to be biased in favour of one kind of example and neglect of others - and it's quite natural to be annoyed about that. But I don't think the students are danger from facts.

They may become inflamed by ideas or slogans or political rhetoric, it's just not likely to happen in a math course.

[Phi for All]

On 9/14/2022 at 4:50 AM, toucana said:

The Maths textbooks in question, many of which are for K-5 grade elementary students, were banned by the Florida authorities because they allegedly incorporate “prohibited topics and strategies” including references to CRT (Critical Race Theory) -  which is usually taught as a college level subject.

This effort seems aimed at promoting the continuation of colonialist practices. Foster racial and social inequality. Establish legal and political domination over the non-white population. Keep the indigenous population from mixing with the disaffected elements of your colony. And don't let them have access to an education that might  lead them to expect better.

[CharonY]

7 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

This effort seems aimed at promoting the continuation of colonialist practices. Foster racial and social inequality. Establish legal and political domination over the non-white population. Keep the indigenous population from mixing with the disaffected elements of your colony. And don't let them have access to an education that might  lead them to expect better.

I don't think that it necessarily at a specific effort of social engineering, though it could have that consequence. Primarily it seems to me like a performative act (something that some folks love to call virtue signaling) for their basis. Of course it does perpetuate a certain worldview (which is supposed to appeal and mobilize a specific segment of the voter base), but I am not sure whether that is really the main point. But then folks were taking QAnon seriously, so what do I know?

[Peterkin]

Whatever pushes the agenda, in word, deed, ban, zoning law, symbols or gestures; all part of a package.