Hi Everyone! My husband and myself are going to try to share this profile and we will see how that works

[we2]

We don't see any intro threads so I guess we will just jump in and see how it goes. 

We are a married couple for 25 years and also very active in the nudist community. 

we have also been born again Christians for 25 years as well. 

We have always been amazed that fellow Christians (and the general public) condemns public nudity when the Bible never once condemns it or names it as a sin. 

we would love to get into a respectful discussion with anyone out there that agrees or disagrees. 

We will promise to reply to everyone who posts. 

BTW, all nudists are not swingers and very few swingers are nudists so that is NOT what we are on here for 

 

[Bufofrog]

10 hours ago, we2 said:

We have always been amazed that fellow Christians (and the general public) condemns public nudity when the Bible never once condemns it or names it as a sin.

The story of Noah and his son Ham seems weirdly over the top against nudity. 

[we2]

1 minute ago, Bufofrog said:

The story of Noah and his son Ham seems weirdly over the top against nudity. 

so you are saying that we should never be naked in front of our son's. Not even at the gym?

It is clear that it wasn't his nudity but what he was doing when he was drunk and naked.

In short, he was jacking off.

Remember whenever the word "nakedness" is used in the Bible, It refers to the activities the people are doing while naked. AKA, having sex with relatives etc

 

[exchemist]

10 hours ago, we2 said:

We don't see any intro threads so I guess we will just jump in and see how it goes. 

We are a married couple for 25 years and also very active in the nudist community. 

we have also been born again Christians for 25 years as well. 

We have always been amazed that fellow Christians (and the general public) condemns public nudity when the Bible never once condemns it or names it as a sin. 

we would love to get into a respectful discussion with anyone out there that agrees or disagrees. 

We will promise to reply to everyone who posts. 

BTW, all nudists are not swingers and very few swingers are nudists so that is NOT what we are on here for 

 

Adam and Eve set the original precedent, I suppose.

I can't see it's a big deal in Christianity. To be honest, the issue in practice is not disturbing other people or drawing attention to oneself. That's very much a matter of where you are and what the expectations are in that situation. For instance it is quite normal to wear very little on the beach, but if one were to dress like that on the London Underground*, it would be a big distraction.  So if you are nudists, in a place set aside for that, the person who would draw attention to himself would the one dressed in a double-breasted suit.  

 

* However when my late wife worked in Rio de Janeiro, it was perfectly normal to see a guy in speedos on the bus, with a surfboard under his arm, next to all the people dressed for the office.  

Edited September 25, 2022 by exchemist

[Bufofrog]

21 minutes ago, we2 said:

so you are saying that we should never be naked in front of our son's. Not even at the gym?

Nope, personally I could care less, I was just pointing out what was in the bible that refuted your earlier statement.

23 minutes ago, we2 said:

It is clear that it wasn't his nudity but what he was doing when he was drunk and naked.

In short, he was jacking off.

Where did you get that from??  I think it is pretty clearly stated he was drunk and asleep.

[MigL]

Personally, I have a problem with excessive nudity; it takes away the thrill of 'discovery'.
In repressive Victorian times, seeing an ankle was a thrill; these days, a totally naked woman doesn't get a rise out of me.
( and it's not due to old age )

Further, I have a problem with so called 'born again' religious people, who seem to be trying to excuse their previous 'lives'.
All the while passing moral judgement on pople who live their lives as they once did.
( like the anti-smoking Nazis who used to smoke three packs a day, before they quit )

And finally, I don't see what an allegorical book of parables has to do with any of this.
( are you looking for moral justification ? )

 

[TheVat]

Oh good, a chance to tell my parrot story.  A true story.

Friends of mine bought a parrot.  (There are no fjords in this story, btw). The cage had a little tray for feed, which they kept filled, in accordance with the instructions for care that came with.  Every day, they found most of the seeds on the floor underneath the cage, and a very hungry parrot who would make outraged noises as they refilled the tray.  Not sure why most of the mix was being rejected, they consulted with a vet, who figured out that the feed was the wrong kind, and told them what to buy.  Problem solved, except that the parrot remained a sloppy eater who would still send at least a quarter of the tray to the floor.

So they named the bird Onan.  Because Onan, in the Bible, "spilled his seed upon the ground." (And was swallowed up by the earth, which seems like a pretty extreme punishment, and clearly God decided to dial that penalty back or I wouldn't be here to tell this story - I am somewhat nearsighted, however...)

[Moontanman]

I'm a nudist, I never saw any reason to reveal that here, never really seemed relevant to any issues I was discussing. But now that we have a nudist thread i would say that my username is associated with my nudity and that I love to walk around the beach in the nude but nude swimming is heaven on earth! I am, btw, an atheist and see no way to connect my love of being nude (naked means you are nude and up to something) of course these days i supplement my income via paypal donations by people who want me to keep my clothes on! 

[Peterkin]

1 hour ago, TheVat said:

So they named the bird Onan.  Because Onan, in the Bible, "spilled his seed upon the ground."

Or, they could have just bought him a deeper dish.

I had a problem with that beautiful couple who share everything, but that problem's been solved.

[joigus]

I don't think the Bible is so much concerned with swingers, as Abraham, Sarah and Hagar were the first "documented" swingers in history, if I remember correctly.

On the other hand, I don't think the Bible took public nudity so lightly, to be honest.

It was as much lenient with genocide as it was with swinging... You see where I'm going.

I guess what I'm saying is: Do what you want to do as long as it doesn't harm or humiliate, or greatly embarrass, or create unnecessary problems, etc. to others.

2 hours ago, MigL said:

Personally, I have a problem with excessive nudity; it takes away the thrill of 'discovery'.
In repressive Victorian times, seeing an ankle was a thrill; these days, a totally naked woman doesn't get a rise out of me.
( and it's not due to old age )

Same here.

If we're talking about sex.

If, we're talking about having a nice day at the beach, I agree with moon-tan-man.  

Not that I get many chances to tan my moon.

[Polykephalous]

Can I just look without commenting or does that make me a peeping-tom.

[zapatos]

Quote

...from Genesis 3 onward Scripture seems to make it clear that, except in the case of sexual activity, it’s a shameful thing to “uncover one’s nakedness” (Genesis 9:20-27; Leviticus 18:6-18). Indeed, the reasoning here seems to be that nakedness is inextricably connected with sexual activity.

 

https://www.focusonthefamily.com/family-qa/what-the-bible-says-about-public-nudity/

[Moontanman]

Damn it! We didn't get to see the boobies! 

[Phi for All]

15 minutes ago, Moontanman said:

Damn it! We didn't get to see the boobies! 

Sorry! How about this pair?

 

 

 

 

[TheVat]

I'll see your boobies and raise you a great tit.

 

[zapatos]

Two men walking abreast.

[swansont]

Obligatory pussy pic. (maybe someone will follow with beaver pics)

[TheVat]

Our inner twelve year olds are thriving today!

A great pair of knockers...

 

(Credit: Mel Brooks)

[Phi for All]

Great rack for you here, Moon!

And I don't normally do this kind of thing, but:

[MigL]

No wonder we have no more women on this forum.
Everyone is less puerile when women are present.
( always wanted to use the word 'puerile' )

[Doctor Derp]

On 9/24/2022 at 4:20 PM, we2 said:

We have always been amazed that fellow Christians (and the general public) condemns public nudity when the Bible never once condemns it or names it as a sin. 

we would love to get into a respectful discussion with anyone out there that agrees or disagrees. 

 

 

 

I have known bodybuilders who go out in public with their shirts off.

They're often accused of showing off and become magnets for envy and jealousy.

In the world of sports, the most attractive athletes are often the biggest targets for hate.

I think that's where the biblical teaching of not being seen in public nude stems from. On some level, it could be better to be seen fully clothed. Then to stir a pot of envy and jealousy that comes from others seeing health and attractiveness that cannot be their own.

That said what do nudists think of reality shows like "Naked and Afraid". Do they support nudity in reality TV. Or is there another opinion that applies there.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Doctor Derp

[Phi for All]

22 minutes ago, Doctor Derp said:

I have known bodybuilders who go out in public with their shirts off.

They're often accused of showing off and become magnets for envy and jealousy.

In the world of sports, the most attractive athletes are often the biggest targets for hate.

I think that's where the biblical teaching of not being seen in public nude stems from. On some level, it could be better to be seen fully clothed. Then to stir a pot of envy and jealousy that comes from others seeing health and attractiveness that cannot be their own.

Biblical strictures against nudity stem from the world of sports? Seems a stretch, to me.

Even jealousy and envy seem misplaced. Everything about the way women were treated in the Bible supports the concept that everything but their fellow men (and even them if you followed the laws) were possessions to men back then. So not jealousy or envy, but the pure greed of ownership and wanting to be taken seriously. They didn't want their women to be attractive to other men because they wanted to ensure that any offspring they support can only have come from their own loins, and that the heirs to their fortunes were legitimate.

And beyond the inheritance, according to Deuteronomy 23:2, illegitimate children can't join any congregations, which probably means they can't get into heaven. And that lasts for 10 generations, so that's probably a big part of the whole "keep it covered" campaign. 

Of course, the problem with the OP is that we can talk about sexual topics without having sex with each other, just like we can talk about death without killing someone. And we can talk about public nudity and how it impacts Christian morality without showing pictures of ourselves naked.

[Doctor Derp]

1 hour ago, Phi for All said:

Biblical strictures against nudity stem from the world of sports? Seems a stretch, to me.

Even jealousy and envy seem misplaced. Everything about the way women were treated in the Bible supports the concept that everything but their fellow men (and even them if you followed the laws) were possessions to men back then. So not jealousy or envy, but the pure greed of ownership and wanting to be taken seriously. They didn't want their women to be attractive to other men because they wanted to ensure that any offspring they support can only have come from their own loins, and that the heirs to their fortunes were legitimate.

And beyond the inheritance, according to Deuteronomy 23:2, illegitimate children can't join any congregations, which probably means they can't get into heaven. And that lasts for 10 generations, so that's probably a big part of the whole "keep it covered" campaign. 

Of course, the problem with the OP is that we can talk about sexual topics without having sex with each other, just like we can talk about death without killing someone. And we can talk about public nudity and how it impacts Christian morality without showing pictures of ourselves naked.

 

The bible leans in favor of moderation and humility. Staying clothed and not showing off your health and physical attractiveness for the entire world to see is considered moderate behavior. While nudity and extremism would be more strongly correlated with liberalism.

If you disagree with this basic assessment, I would be interested to know why.

Aside from that, the rest of your points belong in a religious discussion and are too off topic (and uninterestingly inaccurate) to bother responding to here.

[Peterkin]

3 hours ago, Doctor Derp said:

I think that's where the biblical teaching of not being seen in public nude stems from. On some level, it could be better to be seen fully clothed. Then to stir a pot of envy and jealousy that comes from others seeing health and attractiveness that cannot be their own.

What utter balderdash!

Adam and Eve were not showing off - who was around to envy them? They didn't know that God had a bugaboo about genitals; He never told them  about sex. They didn't even know they were naked until they ate of the knowledge of good from evil. Then, suddenly, their natural state was perceived as evil - though they don't copulate till the next chapter. 

Quote

 

7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

Quote

21 And he [Noah]drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.

22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.

23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.

24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.

25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.

26 And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

It's the son who happened to catch an accidental glimpse of the apparatus that engendered him that was punished, and the old man lolling about in a drunken stupor, leaving his withered loins uncovered, who pronounced the curse on him.

 

1 hour ago, Doctor Derp said:

The bible leans in favor of moderation and humility.

Name three instances of moderation in the OT.

 

1 hour ago, Doctor Derp said:

While nudity and extremism would be more strongly correlated with liberalism.

Eh? Parse that sentence, slowly.... And then correlate the three nouns in it to anything in the OT.

 

Edited September 30, 2022 by Peterkin

[Phi for All]

3 hours ago, Doctor Derp said:

The bible leans in favor of moderation and humility.

Oh sure, except for the many parts that don't. Leans in favor? Bet I can find more extremist behavior than you can find humble behavior in the Bible. It preaches moderation, but few of the characters actually practice it.

3 hours ago, Doctor Derp said:

Staying clothed and not showing off your health and physical attractiveness for the entire world to see is considered moderate behavior. While nudity and extremism would be more strongly correlated with liberalism.

If you disagree with this basic assessment, I would be interested to know why.

I disagree that it IS a basic assessment, which should be far more objective. Moderate is what YOU consider it. It was not uncommon in biblical times for women to go topless. It wasn't considered immodest. In fact, there are more mentions in the B about women covering their heads than there are about covering their breasts. And try reading the Song of Solomon sometime. 

3 hours ago, Doctor Derp said:

Aside from that, the rest of your points belong in a religious discussion and are too off topic (and uninterestingly inaccurate) to bother responding to here.

Well, this is the Religion section, which makes this a religious discussion. 

It's OK that you aren't interested in a POV that disagrees with yours. And I completely understand why it wouldn't interest you. But my points weren't inaccurate or off-topic, and I'd be happy to defend them for you, from Biblical times all the way up through more modern primogeniture practices. You can defend why you think sports influenced the biblical stance on nudity.