How conductive is the Earth compared to space ?

[JustJoe]

I was thinking about electricity and was wondering how much electrical energy was conducted by the Earth compared to space ? 

Do we use the letter q for electrical charge ? 

 

[studiot]

38 minutes ago, JustJoe said:

I was thinking about electricity and was wondering how much electrical energy was conducted by the Earth compared to space ? 

Do we use the letter q for electrical charge ? 

 

This is an interesting question that has many ramifications in GeoPhysics, but could you narrow it down a bit ?

Also you say conducted, do you know the difference between conductive current and displacement current ?

Finally the Earth is far from homogeneous and the values for sigma and epsilon vary with local materials eg seawater v granite.

[JustJoe]

1 hour ago, studiot said:

This is an interesting question that has many ramifications in GeoPhysics, but could you narrow it down a bit ?

Also you say conducted, do you know the difference between conductive current and displacement current ?

Finally the Earth is far from homogeneous and the values for sigma and epsilon vary with local materials eg seawater v granite.

Hi , I do not know much science , just bits . I am sorry if my words aren't the correct words . I don't know  the difference between conductive current and displacement current, I've no idea what those terms mean . I remember from my schools days that the Earth has conductive materials like iron and was wondering whether these materials conduct any electrical energy that may be created externally, compared to the electrical energy being dispersed into space ? 

[Mordred]

Well the ground is conductive but conductivity will vary location to location. An easy way to see this is lightning strikes. This is a good example of the EM field in our atmosphere interacting with the Earths surface. (The term grounding) in electrical circuits dissipates unwanted electrical charge via Earth surface the grounded conductor is bonded to.

[JustJoe]

1 hour ago, Mordred said:

Well the ground is conductive but conductivity will vary location to location. An easy way to see this is lightning strikes. This is a good example of the EM field in our atmosphere interacting with the Earths surface. (The term grounding) in electrical circuits dissipates unwanted electrical charge via Earth surface the grounded conductor is bonded to.

When this grounding process occurs of electrical energy , does the Earth store this energy within or does the electrical energy dissipate into space ? 

[Mordred]

Dissipates into the ground and effectively neutralizes.

[studiot]

1 hour ago, JustJoe said:

When this grounding process occurs of electrical energy , does the Earth store this energy within or does the electrical energy dissipate into space ? 

Things have gor rather hectic here so it doesn't look like I will make a full reply tonight.

Anyway the short form is that the electric force is probably the most important force in our everyday world.
Our bodies run on electricity.
Chemical reactions run on electricity.
If you have a fish tank aquarium, you will monitor the water quality using a conductivity meter.

The chemical reactions that cause weathering in the rocks run on electricity so conduction in the earth is vitally important to us.
This is not the spectacular lightning storm but none the less all due to a form of conductivity unlike electricity in the power wires in our homes.

To expand on this I will need to post some basic explanations so more to follow.

[JustJoe]

12 hours ago, Mordred said:

Dissipates into the ground and effectively neutralizes.

From the replies I've noticed that nobody mentioned whether or not some of the electrical energy was dissipated into space ? 

Also what do you mean by neutralizes , do you mean it ceases to exist ? 

 

[studiot]

3 hours ago, JustJoe said:

From the replies I've noticed that nobody mentioned whether or not some of the electrical energy was dissipated into space ? 

Also what do you mean by neutralizes , do you mean it ceases to exist ? 

 

I was coming to that but it will entail you knowing exactly what 'energy' is.

 

18 hours ago, JustJoe said:

Hi , I do not know much science , just bits . I am sorry if my words aren't the correct words .

Being a science novice is just fine;  one of the main reasons for this site to exist is for novices to ask questions.

So this is not a criticism, but I suspect you think of energy as a sort of thing or substance of some sort.

That is not the case. Energy is a property of things and substances.

Scientists often say loosely that 'energy is transferred' whilst they actually (or should) know that 'energy transfer' is really an accounting device.

7 take away 3 leaves 4.

You question about loss into is similar. I hope you can see that the 3 above does not evaporate into space.

 

As a physical example let us consider boiling a kettle on a gas hob.

The burning of the gas raises the temperature of the gas particles, which means they move faster.

When they strike the bottom of the kettle they slow down  -  we say energy is transferred to the kettle, but what we mean is that the impact of gas molecules makes the kettle walls vibrate faster than before we heated them.

In turn the kettle walls transfer some of this additional motion to the water inside which means the water molecules now move faster, eventually fast enough to boil.

Working out all the maths of this chain of events takes several pages.

Far easier to just say X amount of 'energy' is transferred from the gas to the water.

So when you are asking about electrical energy dissipated to space what exactly are you thinking about and why do you think the conductance of space (if any) plays a part ?

The better you can explain your question the better will be the final answer.

 

Incidentally we do say that all bodies give off and receive electromagnetic radiation at all times which results in a transfer of energy.
But this is a thermal process not an electric one.

[JustJoe]

1 hour ago, studiot said:

 

So when you are asking about electrical energy dissipated to space what exactly are you thinking about and why do you think the conductance of space (if any) plays a part ?

The better you can explain your question the better will be the final answer.

 

Incidentally we do say that all bodies give off and receive electromagnetic radiation at all times which results in a transfer of energy.
But this is a thermal process not an electric one.

I have heard the term heat rises and wondered what electrical energy did . It was explained that electrical energy is grouded , which is quite the opposite to heat rising . I know metals are conductive and thought in  some way that electrical energy was attracted to conductive metals like gravity, I also thought that electrical energy rises like heat , so thought space must be conductive too . I see electricity as a substance . 

 

 

 

 

[studiot]

9 minutes ago, JustJoe said:

I have heard the term heat rises and wondered what electrical energy did . It was explained that electrical energy is grouded , which is quite the opposite to heat rising . I know metals are conductive and thought in  some way that electrical energy was attracted to conductive metals like gravity, I also thought that electrical energy rises like heat , so thought space must be conductive too . I see electricity as a substance . 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the information, how did you get on understanding that energy is not a substance - there is no such thing as pure energy?

Edited December 12, 2022 by studiot

[Genady]

@JustJoe. In the Modern and Theoretical Physics, where this thread is posted, electricity is not a substance.

[JustJoe]

Just now, Genady said:

@JustJoe. In the Modern and Theoretical Physics, where this thread is posted, electricity is not a substance.

Ok, what is it then ? Lighting was mentioned , isn't lightning a substance ? 

[Genady]

1 minute ago, JustJoe said:

Ok, what is it then ? Lighting was mentioned , isn't lightning a substance ? 

No, it is not. It is a phenomenon.

[studiot]

Just now, Genady said:

No, it is not. It is a phenomenon.

Exactly. +1

 

[JustJoe]

6 minutes ago, studiot said:

 

 

Thanks for the information, how did you get on understanding that energy is not a substance - there is no such thing as pure energy.

Pure energy ? 

What travels through Pylons if it isn't a substance ? 

4 minutes ago, Genady said:

No, it is not. It is a phenomenon.

I thought lighting has a tangible, solid presence because it can break trees when it strikes ? 

What do you mean by phenomenon?

[Genady]

@JustJoe. In case of lightening, it's a process.

[JustJoe]

1 minute ago, Genady said:

@JustJoe. In case of lightening, it's a process.

Ok but we can see lighting so it must be made of something ? 

 

[Genady]

1 minute ago, JustJoe said:

Ok but we can see lighting so it must be made of something ? 

 

This process produces light.

[JustJoe]

2 minutes ago, exchemist said:

Here we go again. This is more time-wasting, by yet another sockpuppet of Theorist. 

 Caun't understand you ? 

5 minutes ago, Genady said:

This process produces light.

Thought somebody said it was electrical ? 

[JustJoe]

34 minutes ago, studiot said:

 

 

Thanks for the information, how did you get on understanding that energy is not a substance - there is no such thing as pure energy?

Before I go you might be interested in this 

[Phi for All]

1 hour ago, JustJoe said:

Before I go you might be interested in this 

!

Moderator Note

This is a mainstream section, requiring mainstream responses. Whatever this is needs to be established in its own thread, in Speculations. 

Lightning/electricity is an event or process, and not a physical substance (can you wrap some up as a holiday present?). If you wish to argue this fact, please open another thread, also in Speculations.

 

[JustJoe]

On 12/12/2022 at 12:33 PM, studiot said:

 

Far easier to just say X amount of 'energy' is transferred from the gas to the water.

 

It is still an interesting question and you gave me the answer of x ,  Qmax=x/V   

How much electrical energy could the earth store before it caused molecules to become unstable ? 

Does the stored electrical energy increase interior thermodynamics ? 

Does the interior dissipated electrical energy have any affect on the Earths field ? 

[studiot]

On 12/12/2022 at 2:57 PM, JustJoe said:

Before I go you might be interested in this 

 

Before I go ?

Where are you going ?

 

I have no idea where you obtained the formula you posted, but it is just plain nonsense.

The equation is dimensionally unbalanced so totally non scientific.

 

go well

[JustJoe]

3 hours ago, studiot said:

 

Before I go ?

Where are you going ?

 

I have no idea where you obtained the formula you posted, but it is just plain nonsense.

The equation is dimensionally unbalanced so totally non scientific.

 

go well

I got the equation by the process of grounded electrical energy divided by the earths size . 

How would you describe grounded electrical energy / the earths size ? 

How can m/V be an equation but x/V can't ?