Please name some practical solutions to combat littering.

[dimreepr]

1 minute ago, mistermack said:

Yes. Power comes in degrees. If I had absolute power, they wouldn't just get a fine. 

I was following three school kids down the footpath last year, and one of them was a great big fat tub of lard, the other two normal build. The fattie was eating an ice-cream on a stick, and he just threw the wrapper straight down on the pavement. I felt like kicking his fat arse. Even one of the other two called him a name. Of course I didn't say or do anything, because I know it would be me who ended up in the shit if I did. 

If I was in real power, he would be in the stocks, and anyone who wanted to could kick his fat ass. Share the power.

It would be ironic, if the inventor of the stocks charged to much...

[studiot]

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

Is it better to pay people to clean up the rubbish or pay people to prosecute other people?

Whilst I agree with mistermack's sentiment, I think he is being a bit overdramatic.

So my answer to the above question is very firmly

I don't want to pay to clean up rubbish that I wouldn't dream of leaving.
Yes it is better for the litterer to pay cleaners than be prosecuted.

Let us face it, it took the serious illness of quite a few children and the deaths of some, followed by intensive prosecutions,  before the message about dog's mess got through. Our streets and parks are now much better for it.

[Peterkin]

Quote

Each year Singapore holds a Clean and Green week, which includes a "Cleanest Estate and Cleanest Block competition," pitting housing estates and the Housing and Development Board against each other for the title.https://www.thestreet.com/personal-finance/30-cities-to-visit-that-are-really-really-clean-14731774#gid=ci0256b17880032717&pid=singapore

It's partly cultural. In a consume-and-waste economy, people develop a culture of careless abandon. In a thrifty one, they are far more aware of the material objects in their possession. There is alos the matter of respect for other people who share the public places. That has to be taught early and consistently.    

[joigus]

We tend to get exceedingly dramatic over these topics, and start thinking of the Middle Ages and the like.

I'm not totally enamoured of the way a society like Japan handles similar issues, but it's a good example of how you can tackle them with a more creative approach --or perhaps based on a different tradition and cultural background. They tend to use what I would call inner-circle shame instead of physical punishment. Shoplifters, eg, if I got my information right, are treated to a public display of shame in their usual circles: Their boss, coworkers and family are duly informed about their lapse.

Being showcased as a litterer might be deterrant enough. That could be another way to put those drones to good use.

Just a thought.

But Studiot may be right that you need more than just "leave nothing but your footsteps" witty information panel.

[zapatos]

When I was a kid I remember this really cool trashcan at the zoo. It had a lion's head with an open mouth and was pulling a vacuum. When you got near the mouth with your trash it was sucked in with gusto. I remember running around, along with lots of other kids, searching for trash so we could put it in the lion's mouth.

Like with most things when trying to solve a problem, I think designing the carrot deserves considerable effort before resorting to the stick.

[joigus]

6 minutes ago, zapatos said:

When I was a kid I remember this really cool trashcan at the zoo. It had a lion's head with an open mouth and was pulling a vacuum. When you got near the mouth with your trash it was sucked in with gusto. I remember running around, along with lots of other kids, searching for trash so we could put it in the lion's mouth.

Like with most things when trying to solve a problem, I think designing the carrot deserves considerable effort before resorting to the stick.

I have to say, I like this method way better...

[studiot]

46 minutes ago, zapatos said:

When I was a kid I remember this really cool trashcan at the zoo. It had a lion's head with an open mouth and was pulling a vacuum. When you got near the mouth with your trash it was sucked in with gusto. I remember running around, along with lots of other kids, searching for trash so we could put it in the lion's mouth.

Like with most things when trying to solve a problem, I think designing the carrot deserves considerable effort before resorting to the stick.

One year we went to the dutch Efteling theme park.

There were lots of bins proclaiming loudly  "Papier Hier"     (Perhaps @Eise will sort my spellin ?"  as you passed

I think they also said "Dank u Vell"  if you put something in.

 

We all thought them a great idea, but I didn't notice the sentiment carried on outside the gate into the rest of Holland.

When I still a boy, my grown up cousin was very close to another dutch family.
So I learned that Holland was the only other country that (then) built what we called council houses.
I also learned that they had council house tenants that acted in the same way as our worst ones so they built some houses completed out of concrete, furniture included and said "If you won't keep the place clean and tidy we will. Once a week we will wash the place out with a fire hose whether you are in there or not". I understand this was very effective.

[TheVat]

The lion sucker does sound like great fun.  But keep a firm grip as you walk past if you're carrying a ticket or paper money in hand.

I think the reality check here, speaking as someone who once lived one block from a high school, is that the world will always have teenagers going through the angry rebelling phase.   Unless we want to expend enormous resources prosecuting them all, it seems better to invest in refillable containers and meal boxes you bring to a fastfood counter to be filled with your order.  No container, no service.  Sandwiches and fries (chips) and such would just be wrapped in a paper made from something like corn(maize) husks that starts breaking down rapidly (but not too rapidly)in the presence of moisture or oils.  

 

[Peterkin]

Yes, that's it! Just putting trash in containers, however innovative, attractive and expensive, doesn't solve the trash problem. All those bins have to be emptied somewhere. The cheapest and most effective solution is to produce less trash in the first place.

[zapatos]

38 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

Yes, that's it! Just putting trash in containers, however innovative, attractive and expensive, doesn't solve the trash problem. All those bins have to be emptied somewhere. The cheapest and most effective solution is to produce less trash in the first place.

Just reducing the amount of trash, no matter how innovative and expensive, doesn't solve the trash problem. The cheapest and most effective solution for trash that is generated out in the world is trash containers.

You'll never solve the problem completely with producing less trash in the first place.

[Peterkin]

1 hour ago, zapatos said:

You'll never solve the problem completely with producing less trash in the first place.

I'll never solve any human problem completely; I offer nothing more than local, temporary amelioration.

[zapatos]

27 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

I'll never solve any human problem completely; I offer nothing more than local, temporary amelioration.

Same here! Hence the story about the lion headed trashcan. 😁

[studiot]

Dare I offer the pun    -  rubbish ?

It's somebody's law that

Work expands to fill the time allowed for its completion.

I somehow think that this can also be applied to rubbish bins.

Rubbish expands to (over) fill the available bins.

Edited December 17, 2022 by studiot

[Sensei]

Children everywhere throwing garbage in school.. ? If I were a teacher in such a school, I would say to them: "hey, we don't have a lesson today! (10s pause for a 'hooray!') But we are going to the city.. everyone has to fill 20-30kg bag with garbage found in parks, streets, etc.".. several hours spent on the streets.. If the kids don't catch the lesson and start cleaning up at their school, repeat it again.. 10-20 km of walking a day is not very pleasant..

Edited December 18, 2022 by Sensei

[Peterkin]

The children in the rural school near us participate in spring highway cleanup every year. Each class gets a stretch of road, some adult supervisors (parents and volunteers to make sure the children are safe) some garbage bags and recycle bags for the bottles and cans. They usually come up with returnables, as well, and make a little money. Everybody has a good time and does a good job and learns a lesson in good citizenship.

Edited December 18, 2022 by Peterkin

[dimreepr]

22 hours ago, studiot said:

Whilst I agree with mistermack's sentiment, I think he is being a bit overdramatic.

So my answer to the above question is very firmly

I don't want to pay to clean up rubbish that I wouldn't dream of leaving.
Yes it is better for the litterer to pay cleaners than be prosecuted.

Let us face it, it took the serious illness of quite a few children and the deaths of some, followed by intensive prosecutions,  before the message about dog's mess got through. Our streets and parks are now much better for it.

In an ideal world why would we pay someone to clean up after ourselves?

As for dog shit, yes it does work (because we've got the army of the righteous, on the case) but only when we're seen, then we show our civic brethren our act of picking up the shit; the problem is, when we're not seen it becomes a matter of convenience.

Which means that, in the dark a) a lot of shit is left, because we can't be bothered (besides it's not directly on the path) and b) a lot of plastic is added to the shit and then added to a tree because the bin's to far and I can't be bothered to carry it.

In a less than ideal world, we accept our responsibility and just use the swear jar to assuage our guilt.

[mistermack]

22 hours ago, studiot said:

Whilst I agree with mistermack's sentiment, I think he is being a bit overdramatic.

Of course I was. I was just reliving what I felt like at the time. And I'm not exactly slim myself so I can't lecture people about weight. 

What was really maddening was that the kid littered on purpose. Not mindlessly but to be a "rebel". It was obvious because he laughed when the other kid shouted at him. But you can do that in this country, because there is no comeback at all. Maybe in the odd city centre, there are bylaws that get enforced now and again, but kids would just get a warning, nothing more.

I would make parents liable for littering fines incurred by their kids. 

22 hours ago, dimreepr said:

It would be ironic, if the inventor of the stocks charged to much...

He could charge what he likes. A patent only lasts 20 years. 

[studiot]

14 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

As for dog shit, yes it does work (

 

7 minutes ago, mistermack said:

I would make parents liable for littering fines incurred by their kids. 

Thank you both.

I never said poop patrols were ideal I just said it is now a whole lot better.

Fining parents doesn't seem to work very well perhaps because kids don't actually get fined (much) these days, if they ever did.

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by studiot

[Genady]

22 hours ago, studiot said:

I don't want to pay to clean up rubbish that I wouldn't dream of leaving.

I see it differently. I want the place to be clean, thus, I am ready to pay for the cleaning. Certainly, it is helpful if others want it to be clean as well. 

[dimreepr]

8 minutes ago, mistermack said:

He could charge what he likes. A patent only lasts 20 years. 

Point well missed.

[mistermack]

59 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Point well missed.

Was there a point?  I stopped looking for a point in your posts a long long time ago !

[StringJunky]

On 12/17/2022 at 10:02 AM, Sensei said:

People bother about their own property - they would not allow littering on their own property - but if somebody does it on a 3rd party - whatever..

 

This is true, I've seen many people tip the unwanted contents of their car  in the roadsides and kerbs.... even dropped immediately outside of a macdonald's bin <obscenities>. Too many people are acting like islands of selfishness in the public space. Everything we do has consequences for someone.

Edited December 18, 2022 by StringJunky

[Sensei]

23 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

This is true, I've seen many people tip the unwanted contents of their car  in the roadsides and kerbs.... even dropped immediately outside of a macdonald's bin <obscenities>. Too many people are acting like islands of selfishness in the public space. Everything we do has consequences for someone.

 

I have seen ravens, magpies and jackdaws, going into regular park trashcans and throwing trash after trash (up to 20-30 cm lightweight stuff), outside.. looking for food.. One who did not witness this could imagine that this was done by some idiot people/kids, but it was done by birds..

The amount of garbage on the streets makes people lazy. If you see a lot of garbage flying or lying around you, you stop caring. If it's clean, you don't want to be the first to throw trash in the wrong place.

Edited December 18, 2022 by Sensei

[mistermack]

2 hours ago, Sensei said:

One who did not witness this could imagine that this was done by some idiot people/kids, but it was done by birds..

If I saw trash around a bin, I'd suspect animals. People are hardly going to carry their litter up to a bin, and then drop it next to it. 

2 hours ago, Sensei said:

If you see a lot of garbage flying or lying around you, you stop caring. If it's clean, you don't want to be the first to throw trash in the wrong place.

That's why I support hefty fines. Hopefully, it would gradually change expectations.

[Sensei]

4 minutes ago, mistermack said:

That's why I support hefty fines.

I don't.

People cut off the hands of thieves, kill murderers, etc. and what.. nothing.. It didn't work..