Any MENSA members here?

[JacobNewton]

On another note, have any of you forum goers done an IQ test?

What are your IQs? I'd be curious to know.

Anybody with IQs in the 180 range, for instance? 

[exchemist]

5 minutes ago, JacobNewton said:

On another note, have any of you forum goers done an IQ test?

What are your IQs? I'd be curious to know.

Anybody with IQs in the 180 range, for instance? 

Nah, I don't have enough of an inferiority complex.😄

[JacobNewton]

3 minutes ago, exchemist said:

Nah, I don't have enough of an inferiority complex.😄

You don't do IQ to tests to assuage your inferiority complex, if any, you do one to ascertain your IQ.

 

[Genady]

One does not need a high IQ to realize that this is a wrong forum for this question. Brain Teasers and Puzzles:

Quote

Exercise your brain with these user-submitted puzzlers!

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Genady

[exchemist]

5 minutes ago, JacobNewton said:

You don't do IQ to tests to assuage your inferiority complex, if any, you do one to ascertain your IQ.

 

I was referring to MENSA. That's a club you choose to join, based on taking an IQ test.

But I'm not interested in getting an IQ score either, actually. What would be the use of it? Everyone nowadays knows that IQ scores are a fairly poor predictor of people's capacity, in most spheres of activity. I've done OK in life - got to a good university and enjoyed my degree subject, had a reasonably fulfilling career, am able to understand and enjoy a lot of intellectual things. Nobody who knows me thinks I'm thick. That'll do for me.  

[Phi for All]

!

Moderator Note

Moved from Brain Teasers & Puzzles to The Lounge.

 

[Peterkin]

3 hours ago, JacobNewton said:

What are your IQs? I'd be curious to know.

Why? I took the test a long time ago, back when I was young and dumb enough to believe it meant something. I was invited to join a local club, but they were mostly couples with children, all earnestly obsessed with developing their little genii's genius. I didn't join, but kept in touch with two people who were actually fun, and who also didn't join.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Peterkin

[swansont]

3 hours ago, JacobNewton said:

You don't do IQ to tests to assuage your inferiority complex, if any, you do one to ascertain your IQ.

…possibly because you have an inferiority complex.

[John Cuthber]

4 hours ago, JacobNewton said:

Anybody with IQs in the 180 range, for instance? 

Yes.
So?
Here's an interesting observation.
The IQ test was designed to identify school kids who were struggling with education in order that they could get extra help.
But the people you see on the internet asking about IQ are neither schoolkids, nor do they have cognitive / learning issues.

They just sound like it.


 

[sethoflagos]

5 hours ago, JacobNewton said:

On another note, have any of you forum goers done an IQ test?

What are your IQs? I'd be curious to know.

Anybody with IQs in the 180 range, for instance? 

What do you think your IQ is?

Do you think a high value correlates with a certain social ineptitude?

[TheVat]

My observations growing up were that certain traits (task persistence, impulse control) seemed to correlate with functional intelligence.  For example, kids who took music lessons early in life and responded well to strong encouragement to buckle down and practice, tended to be smart and do well in school.  (similar with families that pushed reading time in evenings and limited tv)  Probably less because of inherent neurological advantage and more because they could transfer the learning skills acquired early in music training to other fields.  We might do well, so far as children are concerned, with focusing on what promotes elongated attention span, creative resourcefulness and task persistence.   And do so without stifling social interaction and blocking emotional intelligence.  (maybe why music kids seemed generally smart, because music has both task persistence challenges and built-in social interaction)

 

[Peterkin]

Back in that same time, I knew one young man who had a measured IQ of 180+. He worked nights in a greasy spoon across the street from the railway station. Nights, because the customers then were mainly regulars who worked at the terminal. He couldn't stand too much contact with strangers. He didn't go out much in daylight for the same reason. He was incapable of ignoring any person, thing or idea that came within his ken. He had, by age 19, already been admitted to a psychiatric hospital three times and tried to commit suicide twice. It was just too exhausting to deal with everything in his head.

[Intoscience]

I took one a good few years back for fun as a competition against my younger sister. She scored 137 and I scored 134 (she always reminds of this at our monthly family quiz evenings). To be fair and I think the running score is 7 - 6 to her 😆.

I think the difficulty with these sorts of tests is that people have varying capabilities across a very wide range of applications, some of which may not be fairy captured within the test. 

For example, people who can retain a lot of information maybe considered extremely intelligent, quiz masters etc... and there may well be a correlation to some degree. But there are also people who have very poor memories, but who are extremely good at problem solving. So who is the most intelligent? To pitch one against the other maybe an unfair comparison, especially so if the measure of intelligence is in anyway biased. 

lets consider me and my partner. I'm a problem solver, engineer... this is what I do for a living and I'm fairly good at my job. My partner is an artist, a carer, she has an eye for creativity, artistic design. She considers herself far less intelligent than me because she is far less capable, academically, practically and so forth... Yet I consider her very intelligent because she can create beautiful art, she can design and fashion spaces to match colours that work or blend, she can see detail in such things that I just don't ever see.   

[sethoflagos]

33 minutes ago, Intoscience said:

lets consider me and my partner. I'm a problem solver, engineer... this is what I do for a living and I'm fairly good at my job. My partner is an artist, a carer, she has an eye for creativity, artistic design. She considers herself far less intelligent than me because she is far less capable, academically, practically and so forth... Yet I consider her very intelligent because she can create beautiful art, she can design and fashion spaces to match colours that work or blend, she can see detail in such things that I just don't ever see.   

In putting together maintenance teams, it's common practise to pair up a 'bright spark' with a 'steady Eddie'. One to determine the root cause of the problem, and one to see that it's properly dealt with.

Their strength is in their diversity, and I strongly believe similar priciples are true on a broader scale in society as a whole.

But above all, I have a profound distrust of those who promote IQ testing, for reasons best summed up in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_v._Bell. (It's still on the statute books). 

[JacobNewton]

20 hours ago, Peterkin said:

Back in that same time, I knew one young man who had a measured IQ of 180+. He worked nights in a greasy spoon across the street from the railway station. Nights, because the customers then were mainly regulars who worked at the terminal. He couldn't stand too much contact with strangers. He didn't go out much in daylight for the same reason. He was incapable of ignoring any person, thing or idea that came within his ken. He had, by age 19, already been admitted to a psychiatric hospital three times and tried to commit suicide twice. It was just too exhausting to deal with everything in his head.

well many geniuses deomstrated such tendencies early in life. Mozart, Beethoven, Darwin, all these people deomstrated the ability or inability to correlate with society the way a normal person would. 

Such is no doubt part and parcel of being an outlier on the intellectual range. One sees deeper than other folk, and one reacts accordingly. 

"He was a gas station worker with an IQ of 180" is reminiscent of Buddha, a nother genius's philosophy, "What is life but a flash in the pan, we are here today and gone tomorrow"

or "Whatever we accomplish in this life is of no consequence"

That 180 IQ guy noted that and made it his philosophy no doubt.

17 hours ago, Intoscience said:

I took one a good few years back for fun as a competition against my younger sister. She scored 137 and I scored 134 (she always reminds of this at our monthly family quiz evenings). To be fair and I think the running score is 7 - 6 to her 😆.

I think the difficulty with these sorts of tests is that people have varying capabilities across a very wide range of applications, some of which may not be fairy captured within the test. 

For example, people who can retain a lot of information maybe considered extremely intelligent, quiz masters etc... and there may well be a correlation to some degree. But there are also people who have very poor memories, but who are extremely good at problem solving. So who is the most intelligent? To pitch one against the other maybe an unfair comparison, especially so if the measure of intelligence is in anyway biased. 

lets consider me and my partner. I'm a problem solver, engineer... this is what I do for a living and I'm fairly good at my job. My partner is an artist, a carer, she has an eye for creativity, artistic design. She considers herself far less intelligent than me because she is far less capable, academically, practically and so forth... Yet I consider her very intelligent because she can create beautiful art, she can design and fashion spaces to match colours that work or blend, she can see detail in such things that I just don't ever see.   

Well, 134 is borderline genius, in fact I score around the same range at IQ tests, I've peaked at 154 on one IQ test and 122 on a mensa test. 

But the point is that IQ, theres different forms of IQ. Spacial, verbal, linguistic, music, mathematic, logic etc

You no doubt score high on the mathematical aspect of IQ tests while spacial/artistic components of IQ tests are more down your partner's line of ability. 

On 1/20/2023 at 6:52 AM, TheVat said:

My observations growing up were that certain traits (task persistence, impulse control) seemed to correlate with functional intelligence.  For example, kids who took music lessons early in life and responded well to strong encouragement to buckle down and practice, tended to be smart and do well in school.  (similar with families that pushed reading time in evenings and limited tv)  Probably less because of inherent neurological advantage and more because they could transfer the learning skills acquired early in music training to other fields.  We might do well, so far as children are concerned, with focusing on what promotes elongated attention span, creative resourcefulness and task persistence.   And do so without stifling social interaction and blocking emotional intelligence.  (maybe why music kids seemed generally smart, because music has both task persistence challenges and built-in social interaction)

 

IMO, IQ is ingrained and while it can be fine tuned like a guitar, it cannot be added to in life. You cannot 'create out of a 120 IQ child a 150 IQ child because they go for music classes. 

On 1/20/2023 at 4:38 AM, John Cuthber said:

Yes.
So?
Here's an interesting observation.
The IQ test was designed to identify school kids who were struggling with education in order that they could get extra help.
But the people you see on the internet asking about IQ are neither schoolkids, nor do they have cognitive / learning issues.

They just sound like it.


 

Is there then an alternative way to measure IQ? I saw a IQ puzzle book that rated subjects on the basis of their reactions to real world situations, e.g, what would you do in such and such a situation, choose from option a, b or c. Do you think that's an accurate appraisal of IQ?

Famous IQs of note, since we on the subject:

Garry Kasparov: 180

Einstein: 160

Da Vinci: 200

Interestingly the highest recorded IQ of all time is attributed to a mathematics whiz, Marylin Vos Savant, who scores 220 on the IQ scale. 

On 1/20/2023 at 4:10 AM, swansont said:

…possibly because you have an inferiority complex.

Well by that definition, everything we do we do to assuage our inferiority complex, which is a fundemental push towards progress in any case. Why do we shop at TESCOS when the non branded items would work just as well, so we can feel better about our selves relative to others in society.

 

[MigL]

3 hours ago, JacobNewton said:

Da Vinci: 200

Really ?
They had IQ tests in the 15th century ?

[John Cuthber]

9 hours ago, JacobNewton said:

saw a IQ puzzle book that rated subjects on the basis of their reactions to real world situations, e.g, what would you do in such and such a situation, choose from option a, b or c. Do you think that's an accurate appraisal of IQ?

Not if you apply it to people who are dead.

9 hours ago, JacobNewton said:

Einstein: 160

Da Vinci: 200

 

9 hours ago, JacobNewton said:

Interestingly the highest recorded IQ of all time is attributed to a mathematics whiz, Marylin Vos Savant, who scores 220 on the IQ scale. 

Equally interestingly
" Guinness retired the "Highest IQ" category in 1990 after concluding IQ tests were too unreliable to designate a single record holder."
From
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marilyn_vos_Savant
Fundamentally, IQ is a measure of how well you do in IQ tests and it measures nothing else.

[dimreepr]

An interesting side question is; how many people would describe themselves as above average intelligence, and how that relates to statistical accuracy? 

I know I am... 🤞

[swansont]

10 hours ago, JacobNewton said:

Well by that definition, everything we do we do to assuage our inferiority complex, which is a fundemental push towards progress in any case. Why do we shop at TESCOS when the non branded items would work just as well, so we can feel better about our selves relative to others in society.

Everything? No.

I think checking your IQ is an act of vanity in most cases. I've never been asked my IQ in a job interview or any professional setting. It never comes up in social settings. If you are checking your IQ to reassure yourself that you are smart, it's probably because you have an inferiority complex.

[Peterkin]

11 hours ago, JacobNewton said:

Such is no doubt part and parcel of being an outlier on the intellectual range. One sees deeper than other folk, and one reacts accordingly. 

There is that. Unless the very intelligent person has some intense focus, like physics or chess, to concentrate their mind, they may tend to look at the world without comforting illusions, and despair. In the case of my young acquaintance, there was another factor: a highly developed emotional sensitivity; I suspect he was a natural empath who had not been taught any coping technique. 

My partner and I would probably score about the same on a conventional IQ test, though our range of perception, as well as our approach to problem-solving are very different.  

Edited January 21, 2023 by Peterkin

[exchemist]

10 hours ago, JacobNewton said:

well many geniuses deomstrated such tendencies early in life. Mozart, Beethoven, Darwin, all these people deomstrated the ability or inability to correlate with society the way a normal person would. 

Such is no doubt part and parcel of being an outlier on the intellectual range. One sees deeper than other folk, and one reacts accordingly. 

"He was a gas station worker with an IQ of 180" is reminiscent of Buddha, a nother genius's philosophy, "What is life but a flash in the pan, we are here today and gone tomorrow"

or "Whatever we accomplish in this life is of no consequence"

That 180 IQ guy noted that and made it his philosophy no doubt.

Well, 134 is borderline genius, in fact I score around the same range at IQ tests, I've peaked at 154 on one IQ test and 122 on a mensa test. 

But the point is that IQ, theres different forms of IQ. Spacial, verbal, linguistic, music, mathematic, logic etc

You no doubt score high on the mathematical aspect of IQ tests while spacial/artistic components of IQ tests are more down your partner's line of ability. 

IMO, IQ is ingrained and while it can be fine tuned like a guitar, it cannot be added to in life. You cannot 'create out of a 120 IQ child a 150 IQ child because they go for music classes. 

Is there then an alternative way to measure IQ? I saw a IQ puzzle book that rated subjects on the basis of their reactions to real world situations, e.g, what would you do in such and such a situation, choose from option a, b or c. Do you think that's an accurate appraisal of IQ?

Famous IQs of note, since we on the subject:

Garry Kasparov: 180

Einstein: 160

Da Vinci: 200

Interestingly the highest recorded IQ of all time is attributed to a mathematics whiz, Marylin Vos Savant, who scores 220 on the IQ scale. 

Well by that definition, everything we do we do to assuage our inferiority complex, which is a fundemental push towards progress in any case. Why do we shop at TESCOS when the non branded items would work just as well, so we can feel better about our selves relative to others in society.

 

TESCO is hardly upmarket. I shop there quite a bit - but then I don't think I have an inferiority complex. 😁

[Genady]

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

An interesting side question is; how many people would describe themselves as above average intelligence, and how that relates to statistical accuracy? 

An answer to this question could represent how high a surveyed group values intelligence. For example, most drivers believe that their driving is above average. I think this is so because driving skills are valued high. Not so sure about intelligence. I'd guess, it would be relatively high in Boston, MA and much lower in Harrisburg, PA.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Genady

[TheVat]

12 hours ago, JacobNewton said:

IMO, IQ is ingrained and while it can be fine tuned like a guitar, it cannot be added to in life. You cannot 'create out of a 120 IQ child a 150 IQ child because they go for music classes. 

Not sure this opinion is supported by studies finding a lower average IQ in impoverished countries.  Clearly nourishment, societal development and education opportunities make some difference.  

Also worth noting that temperaments that are anxious when any part of testing is timed may, however deep their minds, do less well on IQ tests that have timed problem solving portions.  (I know this applies to chess, too:  there are brilliant chess players who avoid timed chess because time pressure clouds their thinking)  

 

[Peterkin]

2 hours ago, TheVat said:

Not sure this opinion is supported by studies finding a lower average IQ in impoverished countries.  Clearly nourishment, societal development and education opportunities make some difference.  

Also early childhood stimulation and the availability of challenging toys and games. Having benign, unintrusive adult attention fosters confidence, and experience with test-taking helps in taking any new test. Children living in poverty generally lack of those things. 

Plus, it might be interesting to know where the test was devised and by whom: cultural bias and differences in communication may be factors.

[dimreepr]

21 hours ago, Genady said:

An answer to this question could represent how high a surveyed group values intelligence.

I suspect the answer would be same if the ballot was secret; for instance, in coal mine or building site a show of hand's would yeald, from the same bollot, a result that was inversely proportional.

Even a front row forward (rugby) thinks they're smater than a footballer... 😁