Atheism, nature or nurture?

[geordief]

1 minute ago, Genady said:

Even in translation, it has been introduced by a creator of the meme. (I despise memes.)

"Meme" is a word whose meaning I cannot fix in my mind no matter how often I learn it.

 

It seems simple enough but each time I see it used it doesn't make sense

[Genady]

4 minutes ago, geordief said:

"Meme" is a word whose meaning I cannot fix in my mind no matter how often I learn it.

 

It seems simple enough but each time I see it used it doesn't make sense

Imagine that you are an AI and learn from data: meme - Bing images

(Anyway, I'm referring to this image from a post above: https://www.scienceforums.net/uploads/monthly_2023_02/820436526_if-a-person-wishes-to-achieve-peace-of-mind-and-happiness-th-author-friedrich-nietzsche-Copy.jpg.bffe6015bde0ec8ed2688fa9874a0a66.jpg)

[dimreepr]

12 hours ago, Genady said:

Even in translation, it has been introduced by a creator of the meme. (I despise memes.)

I only introduced it as an illustration of what you were saying, also in keeping with OP, his belief and then rejection of God was due to his father (devote priest), and his illness and death, which is a big tick for nurture, because his nature is very rational and deep thinking, until, later in life, his decent into mental illness.

[Genady]

38 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

I only introduced it as an illustration of what you were saying, also in keeping with OP, his belief and then rejection of God was due to his father (devote priest), and his illness and death, which is a big tick for nurture, because his nature is very rational and deep thinking, until, later in life, his decent into mental illness.

I understood why you introduced it in your post. It was not you who has introduced the punctuation mistake into it. It was its creator, RelicsWorld.com.

What I don't understand about using memes in general is, why. Why not to say simply, e.g., "As Friedrich Nietzsche said, bla-bla...". This question certainly is OT, however.

[dimreepr]

42 minutes ago, Genady said:

What I don't understand about using memes in general is, why. Why not to say simply, e.g., "As Friedrich Nietzsche said, bla-bla...". This question certainly is OT, however.

In this case it's just a matter of ease, I was listening to a podcast on my google tab, and I had that image saved.

It's only a poor approximation of the real translation/quote (but close enough) that was taken from a letter he sent to his sister explaining, if memory serves, why he's turned his back on the church.

Every true faith is infallible. It performs what the believing person hopes to find in it. But it does not offer the least support for the establishing of an objective truth. Here the ways of men divide. If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, have faith. If you want to be a disciple of truth, then search.

Friedrich Nietzsche

Edited March 1, 2023 by dimreepr

[Genady]

30 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, have faith. If you want to be a disciple of truth, then search.

Sounds like a false dichotomy. One can have a peace of mind and happiness while searching for truth, without a faith. Also, one can have faith and at the same time be unhappy and disturbed.

[dimreepr]

1 minute ago, Genady said:

Sounds like a false dichotomy. One can have a peace of mind and happiness while searching for truth, without a faith. Also, one can have faith and at the same time be unhappy and disturbed.

No, not when you take into account the context of his life. 

Besides, if you search for a truth you expect to find, you can't be scared of it.

[Genady]

3 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

No, not when you take into account the context of his life.

I am rather talking about a generalization being wrong. In his life it might be correct, but in other people lives it is not necessarily so.

[dimreepr]

16 minutes ago, Genady said:

I am rather talking about a generalization being wrong. In his life it might be correct, but in other people lives it is not necessarily so.

Okay... 

I guess you have to walk a mile in another man's shoes, if want a blister.

[Genady]

55 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Okay... 

I guess you have to walk a mile in another man's shoes, if want a blister.

Something like this. Especially so for me, since neither I nor any of my friends and family had ever to explain why we turned our backs on the church.

[dimreepr]

14 minutes ago, Genady said:

Something like this. Especially so for me, since neither I nor any of my friends and family had ever to explain why we turned our backs on the church.

I wonder if you'd be saying that 100 year's ago?

The parable of the madman, is nearly always out of date.

Edited March 1, 2023 by dimreepr

[Genady]

16 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

I wonder if you'd be saying that 100 year's ago?

Perhaps, not.

[dimreepr]

As, I think, touched on earlier in this thread, true athiesm believes in nothing, which can't be nature.

"Every true faith is infallible. It performs what the believing person hopes to find in it." - Nietzshe

We all believe in the small God's, especially our personalised one's; the god of the traffic lights, for instance, that turns them to green when we flash our light's on approach, or the god of the game that only helps our team when we wear the correct sock. 

That's our nature, which is moulded by our culture; and once in a blue moon is questioned by a member. 

[Genady]

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

As, I think, touched on earlier in this thread, true athiesm believes in nothing, which can't be nature.

"Every true faith is infallible. It performs what the believing person hopes to find in it." - Nietzshe

We all believe in the small God's, especially our personalised one's; the god of the traffic lights, for instance, that turns them to green when we flash our light's on approach, or the god of the game that only helps our team when we wear the correct sock. 

That's our nature, which is moulded by our culture; and once in a blue moon is questioned by a member. 

We like fairytales. Perhaps it has something to do with our ability and willing to imagine things.

[iNow]

3 hours ago, dimreepr said:

true athiesm believes in nothing

Incorrect. All it means is NOT*theist. No conclusions can be drawn regarding other beliefs. 

[swansont]

3 hours ago, dimreepr said:

true athiesm believes in nothing

That’s nihilism.

[dimreepr]

19 hours ago, iNow said:

Incorrect. All it means is NOT*theist. No conclusions can be drawn regarding other beliefs. 

19 hours ago, swansont said:

That’s nihilism.

Clearly that's a bad choice of word's, since I'm definitely not a nihilist and my point was meant to be, athiesm has to be taught (nuture) because our nature is to believe.

 

 

[Genady]

12 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

our nature is to believe

I disagree. It is very similar to an attitude toward foods (see another thread, https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/128942-restaurant-food-split-from-heat-regulation-obesity/?do=findComment&comment=1232233).

Some people tend to believe, e.g., maybe you. Some, OTOH, tend to doubt and to question, e.g., I. And everything in between.

 

[dimreepr]

21 hours ago, Genady said:

We like fairytales. Perhaps it has something to do with our ability and willing to imagine things.

Fairytales, more often than not, contain a moral lesson; for instance, as an adult you have learned that killing more than you can eat now will lead to starvation tomorrow. A lesson that states the reason's in a dry/abstract way, just whistles soundlessly over head; but give the animal a 'proxy god' and make up a story in which the 'proxy god' knows when you're just killing for fun and also knows the best way to hurt you; which is a good enough lesson, until they understand why...

[Genady]

2 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Fairytales, more often than not, contain a moral lesson

Then it is a fable rather than a fairytale.

[dimreepr]

5 minutes ago, Genady said:

I disagree. It is very similar to an attitude toward foods (see another thread, https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/128942-restaurant-food-split-from-heat-regulation-obesity/?do=findComment&comment=1232233).

Some people tend to believe, e.g., maybe you. Some, OTOH, tend to doubt and to question, e.g., I. And everything in between.

 

Why do you think scientists insist on a double blind study, when appropriate?

We all have a bias, even those who believe they don't.

[Genady]

Just now, dimreepr said:

Why do you think scientists insist on a double blind study, when appropriate?

Because they 

10 minutes ago, Genady said:

tend to doubt and to question

 

[dimreepr]

3 minutes ago, Genady said:

Then it is a fable rather than a fairytale.

Maybe worth an etymological study, to find the difference. 

[Genady]

1 minute ago, dimreepr said:

Maybe worth an etymological study, to find the difference. 

Has been done already: Fable vs. Fairy Tale – Difference Wiki

[dimreepr]

1 minute ago, Genady said:

Because they 

 

No, it's because they recognise that they can have a bias, they don't recognise...

2 minutes ago, Genady said:

Has been done already: Fable vs. Fairy Tale – Difference Wiki

So, it's a semantic difference.