Restaurant food (split from Heat Regulation - Obesity)

[Michael McMahon]

15 hours ago, Peterkin said:

No -  it's quite all right to indulge less in the foods that make us fat and ill.

Maybe a complacency with obesity is that diet is constantly educational meaning that eating bad food makes you too skilled at eating bad food. 

[Michael McMahon]

I bought a pack of rambutan fruit where I thought the peachy-grape taste with its nutty seed interior would help me eat more seeded grapes. Hence eating a diversity fruit can spiral upwards instead of eating too many apples and oranges. Maybe a factor in obesity is that richer people might try to unconsciously appear prouder than poor people by overeating even if they’re not as strong as poor people due to an accident in social hierarchies. In other words no one should individually try to defend capitalism where rationalising yourself as stronger for being richer can lead to a downward spiral. Perhaps a risk factor in introversion is that proud people can ironically be tempted to be speak more humbly than others even if they too are humble simply to overcompensate against a tendency for violent thoughts. As such speaking in an egalitarian way can be more appropriate than speaking in a vaguely humble way. A dilemma is that other people are so unique that to speak to them entails adjusting your personality to theirs in such a way that you exaggerate a certain trait in you that matches them. Yet this immediately risks overconfidence in your own trait such that speaking equally to others can be much harder than it first appears. 

[Genady]

In the world of defense mechanisms, rationalization is fairly common. People may not realize when they offer a small excuse or justification. Although this is natural, confronting reality, even when it’s difficult, can be an important step to changing harmful habits in realms such as relationships, finances, and more.

[Michael McMahon]

Creativity can be important for healthy eating where we’ve to tailor our diet for our own unique body. I was in a restaurant near St. Stephen’s green in Dublin where I ordered a blood orange tea and I was surprised that it came with a jug of milk. I was so accustomed to drinking plain green teas that it never dawned on me that I could adapt to exotic teas with milk. This would allow me to cut down on my hot chocolates and coffees where each of those drinks counteract each other to prevent addiction. Adding milk to a berry tea makes it feel fuller so that you don’t have to drink loads of tea! Adding milk to a berry tea merely dilutes the red into pink:
 

 

In the same restaurant I ordered an alcohol guinness stew where it was more digestible even though I’d try to only use alcohol rarely. I once tried adding honey to milk and tea only to realise that it might be to sweetening!

Edited July 27, 2023 by Michael McMahon

[Genady]

A classic example of creativity in cooking:

Quote

It was still early 
when we got settled, and George said that, as we had plenty of time, it
would be a splendid opportunity to try a good, slap-up supper. He said
he would show us what could be done up the river in the way of cooking,
and suggested that, with the vegetables and the remains of the cold
beef and general odds and ends, we should make an Irish stew.

It seemed a fascinating idea. George gathered wood and made a fire, and
Harris and I started to peel the potatoes. 

...

George said it was absurd to have only four potatoes in an Irish stew,
so we washed half-a-dozen or so more, and put them in without peeling.
We also put in a cabbage and about half a peck of peas. George stirred
it all up, and then he said that there seemed to be a lot of room to
spare, so we overhauled both the hampers, and picked out all the odds
and ends and the remnants, and added them to the stew. There were half
a pork pie and a bit of cold boiled bacon left, and we put them in.
Then George found half a tin of potted salmon, and he emptied that into
the pot.

He said that was the advantage of Irish stew: you got rid of such a lot
of things. I fished out a couple of eggs that had got cracked, and put
those in. George said they would thicken the gravy.

I forget the other ingredients, but I know nothing was wasted; and I
remember that, towards the end, Montmorency, who had evinced great
interest in the proceedings throughout, strolled away with an earnest
and thoughtful air, reappearing, a few minutes afterwards, with a dead
water-rat in his mouth, which he evidently wished to present as his
contribution to the dinner; whether in a sarcastic spirit, or with a
genuine desire to assist, I cannot say.

We had a discussion as to whether the rat should go in or not.
Harris said that he thought it would be all right, mixed up with the
other things, and that every little helped; but George stood up for
precedent. He said he had never heard of water-rats in Irish stew, and
he would rather be on the safe side, and not try experiments.

Harris said:

“If you never try a new thing, how can you tell what it’s like? It’s
men such as you that hamper the world’s progress. Think of the man who
first tried German sausage!”

It was a great success, that Irish stew. I don’t think I ever enjoyed
a meal more. There was something so fresh and piquant about it. One’s
palate gets so tired of the old hackneyed things: here was a dish with
a new flavour, with a taste like nothing else on earth.

And it was nourishing, too. As George said, there was good stuff in
it. The peas and potatoes might have been a bit softer, but we all had
good teeth, so that did not matter much: and as for the gravy, it was a
poem—a little too rich, perhaps, for a weak stomach, but nutritious.

 

[Peterkin]

Three Men in a Boat?

I once tried to read that aloud to bedridden friend and couldn't, for choking on laughter.

[Genady]

1 minute ago, Peterkin said:

Three Men in a Boat?

(To Say Nothing of the Dog)

+1

4 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

I once tried to read that aloud to bedridden friend and couldn't, for choking on laughter.

Me too. Even in translation.

[TheVat]

Connie Willis 1990s novel To Say Nothing of the Dog was the motive force getting me to read Jerome's classic.  (I was a bit disappointed to learn that Montmorency was entirely fictitious, unlike the other characters)

 

 

[Peterkin]

Like Harry the lizard in Death in Paradise - oh, the disillusionment!

[Michael McMahon]

Tall and skinny people or so-called “lanky” people aren’t always physically strong but might be informative in how they still have an extreme mindset throughout their lifespan. As such obesity might occasionally be a result of competition between smaller and taller people where small people could match the tall and muscular people in terms of diet. Yet “lanky” people are a disproof that a high diet would lead to a more extreme mindset. So even if the super tall bodybuilders and basketball players all starved their diets they’d still be way more devout in their existence than overweight, smaller people. In other words taller people won’t shorten in stature if they become food deprived. 

[TheVat]

 

When we first had two cats newly living together, one was much smaller than the other (who was a hulking 18 pound brute, none of it fat, would beat up on dogs three times his size and send them off whimpering).  The little one immediately started overeating and gained six pounds.  We wondered if she was trying to mass larger to reduce the size disparity.  Are you suggesting people do this?  I found your post a little hard to follow.

[geordief]

23 minutes ago, TheVat said:

 

When we first had two cats newly living together, one was much smaller than the other (who was a hulking 18 pound brute, none of it fat, would beat up on dogs three times his size and send them off whimpering).  The little one immediately started overeating and gained six pounds.  We wondered if she was trying to mass larger to reduce the size disparity.  Are you suggesting people do this?  I found your post a little hard to follow.

I have noticed that I can  eat to "get my fair share" of what is available.

For those who eat  out I guess this might be less common but there is a funny skit of Rowan Atkinson(Mr Bean) competitively eating with a random  diner and making himself sick when he overdoes  the rotten oysters. 

I hardly ever eat out and so am more aware than otherwise of "who eats what"

[TheVat]

31 minutes ago, geordief said:

 

For those who eat  out I guess this might be less common but there is a funny skit of Rowan Atkinson(Mr Bean) competitively eating with a random  diner and making himself sick when he overdoes  the rotten oysters. 

 

I've seen that.  That's in Mr Bean Takes a Holiday iirc.  Doesn't he end up depositing the repulsive oysters in his napkin and then imto the purse of a diner nearby?  Funny stuff.

One of my favorite Arkinson lines was from Johnny English (the second one?) - Dear God, please don't let me die at the hands of the Swiss.

[Peterkin]

3 hours ago, TheVat said:

We wondered if she was trying to mass larger to reduce the size disparity.

I don't think so. I suspect that the big guy - senior resident? - had a healthy appetite to match his size, and set the 'tone' of the dinner table -- "This is how we eat here." Or, like the feral cats that live on our back porch, she may have been afraid that the bigger cat would hoover it all up and not leave enough for her. 

It's not unusual in families with many children to have some rivalry over the food; the least favoured, most bullied or most anxious child may well overeat in compensation for perceived disadvantages.

In uncertain times, too, we tend to eat as much as we can, every chance we get, because we're not sure of a next meal. My aunt had her own twist on the adage "never put off till tomorrow what you can do today" (The change of 'do' to 'eat' doesn't work in English. )

Edited July 28, 2023 by Peterkin

[TheVat]

Agree on the bulking up theory being dubious.  We developed it as sort of a joke.  It seems more likely to be defensive eating - they had separate bowls and she was making sure there was nothing for Vlad to pilfer, should he stray over to her side of the kitchen.  (she had also been a stray, who we adopted at our doorstep, and we brought her back from a semi-feral state)

 

[Peterkin]

1 hour ago, TheVat said:

(she had also been a stray, who we adopted at our doorstep, and we brought her back from a semi-feral state)

A history of food- and status-insecurity. Makes sense. When you haven't known where your next meal is coming from, you want to make sure of the one in front of you. 

I have noticed this about cats, though: once adopted, they seem to become complacent - take meals, laps and windowsills for granted - much faster than dogs and humans from similar backgrounds. For dogs, possessiveness of food and territory can persist for a long time after they're settled. Human children may carry that insecurity on into adulthood.  

Not uncommonly accompanied by a chronic weight problem.

[Genady]

A different story was how our two dogs danced around the food during dinner. They were both from Animal Shelter, a female with clear presence of Rottweiler genes and a male with Rhodesian Ridgeback genes. They had their dishes side by side and while eating they were constantly switching places. Looked like a ritual, but I don't know what a meaning of it was.

[Peterkin]

The cats do that too. Move from one dish to another, nudging one another aside, or sharing, sampling each portion. It's not hostile - I used to think it's of curiosity, the same way dogs sniff one another's fur and lips after an absence: "Where have you been? What did you eat there?".

Since I always dole out the exact same food into as many dishes as seems appropriate, they've had plenty of opportunity to learn that nobody's food is better or worse. Maybe it's just a game? Or else they're dumber than they look.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Peterkin

[Genady]

I thought it might be confirming the hierarchy. The male dog was older and been in the house before the female has arrived. I think he had a higher rank, although they were very friendly and in spite of her being larger and heavier than him. During the meal, he moved sidewise from his dish to hers. She calmly walked around him to his dish. After several swallows, repeat.

[Peterkin]

34 minutes ago, Genady said:

I thought it might be confirming the hierarchy.

I hadn't thought of that. Could be what the cats are doing, too. They move around like Mexican jumping beans, so it's impossible to keep track long enough to discern a pattern of who pushes whom aside. I'll try to pay closer attention.

[mistermack]

It might be a hangover from when they were babies feeding on the nipple. 

When your nipple runs dry, you try to push your neighbour off his. 

[Peterkin]

I can't quite see that persisting into adulthood. Status seems a more plausible motivation for adults of any species. Also, personalities differentiate over time, vary more in maturity than in infancy. One individual may be greedy and selfish, while another individual may be altruistic and generous.

My mother had an exceptionally bright German Shepherd one time (even spelling the bad words didn't fool her). One evening, I went to their house straight from work and told my mother "I'm so hungry!" The dog ran to kitchen, fetched her dish of kibble, brought it back and dumped it in my lap.

One of our neighbour's dogs (different time, place and dogs) took a fancy to one of ours and kept bringing her presents: a deer's femur, the remnant of a road-killed woodchuck, a slightly chewed apple, a bone with some fried pork-chop left on it...   

[Genady]

Yes, when they are not starved, food related behavior can be very 'ritualistic'. Here is another situation.

After the old dog died, we got a young male from Animal Shelter. At the first dinner time, he tried to jump at the dish as soon as it had food in it. But I held him until Amy, the now older female started eating. That was the only hint he needed. Never again he started eating before Amy.

 

[Peterkin]

Social animals naturally abide by social rules. If the pack leader decrees an order of precedence, it's binding. Except sometimes the human pack leader is not looking, when certain liberties are taken.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9kZd1q4TXw

I expect you're familiar with the psychology experiments involving children and candy.  We are not so different! 

Edited July 29, 2023 by Peterkin

[Genady]

Watching them is a nonstop fun.

On one hand, we are not so different in the sense that we are also affected by the same factors. On the other hand, we are very different because we are affected by so many other factors.