Making hydrochloric acid

[akcapr]

probly the easiest way is on my site- which is in my sig || nice arrow aint it

||

V

[jsatan]

If you really want to make it then you could:

2NaCl + H2SO4 -> Na2SO4 + 2HCl

 

NaCl + H2SO4 -> NaHSO4 + HCl

 

If you don't have sulfuric acid you can use conc. phosporic acid!

 

NaCl + H3PO4 -> NaH2PO4 + HCl

 

2NaCl + H3PO4 -> Na2HPO4 + 2HCl

 

3NaCl + H3PO4 -> Na3PO4 + 3HCl

 

Poop I didnt spot this!!!

I've got about 2li of strong phos acid.

 

Would adding KNO3 to this work the same???

 

Edit:

YT you seem to make your own most of the time.

What PH do you get your too?

I've got a PH prob with digi read out (more hydroponics stuff).

Does it take along time?

Does it fizz really fast when you add the solid (NaCl or KNO3) to the sulfuric acid?

Just thinking how fast I have to be getting the solids in the liquid and capping it.

[YT2095]

the PH I can`t comment on, the concs can be as high as I like really, but for HCl aim at less than 40%, else you`ll need to keep it in the fridge on REALLY COLD! a good 30% is perfect for most applications and you can store it at room temp without problems.

with Nitric acid it`s not really and issue, but DO keep it in a dark glass bottle, light can break it down over time.

 

as for the spontanaity of the reaction, that all depends on the conc of the sulphuric you`re using, 98% and it`ll start reaction right away, for NaCl you`ll notice the liquid turns a yellow color, with Na or KNO3, a brown gas will evolve slowly, it`s NOT dangerous (beyond the obvious) and you`ll have plenty of time to put the top on the vessel

[jsatan]

Thanks YT.

I'll know when I get back if phos acid will work to make nitric acid,

(That is if my bat has arrived which is coming from a friends back yard)

Yeah I wasnt going for any high concs. Just I'm not too good at working % to PH.

[jsatan]

I tried the phos acid, this gave such a small amount of HCl.

I use 20ml of phos acid (89%) and table salt.

This gave almost nothing.

It did give some gas, I take it that bleach smell is the HCl.

The phos acid didnt seem to do anything with the KNO3.

 

I've now got my sulfuric acid, but this too never seemed to give off any brown gas. Any ideas?

 

How much sulfuric acid will I need to make an average strength Nitric acid?

Hope that isnt just a gumble of words, .

[jsatan]

Whats this talking about?

it says adding KNO3 to Sul acid give nitric acid and precipitate of potassium bisulfate.

So I dont need to collected the gas?

Whats about with the HCl will that require collecting, lol.

 

 

Edit: Hummm no one said anything about boiling...

[jsatan]

Just to make sure, it does require boiling yeah?

[YT2095]

well, a little more than just Boiling, you need to distill it, and then collect the vapors in another vessel (Idealy a Cold one).

 

we have threads on here about making the stuff, but I cannot stress enough, that when making Nitric Acid the apparatus must NOT EVER have any organic mater exposed, ideal an all glass distilation kit is what you need, but there ARE ways to "Cheat"!

Investing in a roll of PTFE tape would be a wise move

[jsatan]

well' date=' a little more than just Boiling, you need to distill it, and then collect the vapors in another vessel (Idealy a Cold one).

 

we have threads on here about making the stuff, but I cannot stress enough, that when making Nitric Acid the apparatus must NOT EVER have any organic mater exposed, ideal an all glass distilation kit is what you need, but there ARE ways to "Cheat"!

Investing in a roll of PTFE tape would be a wise move [/quote']

 

Yeah My stuff is all glass, (ebay and friends).

I tried last night, I got the mix down to a powder which was bubbling but looked dry.

It didnt give any brown gass off,

Then my flask cracked, lol.

So I turned off the heat and it cooled FAST, making a vacuum and sucking in water at a speed.

So that messed it up, but the water I was collecting the gas into didnt even change that much (ph).

I had my ph tester in it on all the time watching it.

Maybe I wasnt using enough acid.

[raivo]

HCl is colorless, brown gas can be seen if you make nitric acid and even then most of gas is colorless. Suckback is a problem when dissolving gas in water. I usually leave gas tube slightly above the liquid - all gas will dissolve almost as well. Of course you need fume hood for this. As rogh estimate you need equal weights of sulfuric acid and salt.

 

It seems that you have not enough experience with labwork to do this succesfully. Its good idea to spend some days disitilling just water or boiling out table salt from solution. This may seem useles but in fact will give you a lot of invaluable experience.

[jsatan]

HCl is colorless' date=' brown gas can be seen if you make nitric acid and even then most of gas is colorless. Suckback is a problem when dissolving gas in water. I usually leave gas tube slightly above the liquid - all gas will dissolve almost as well. Of course you need fume hood for this. As rogh estimate you need equal weights of sulfuric acid and salt.

 

It seems that you have not enough experience with labwork to do this process succesfully. Its good idea to spend some days disitilling just water or boiling out table salt from solution. This may seem useles but in fact will give you a lot of invaluable experience.[/quote']

 

Well thanks for the advice but I've done distilling more times that I can count.

I normal use a condenser as water or ethanol is a liquid and will turn back into a liquid.

I've always had the bumping going on in my tubing but with water or ethanol pvc tubing is fine.

[vrus]

H2 and O2 can also be kept as a mixture and be relatively stable. If you have pure H2 and pure Cl2 mixed together, UV light (a.k.a. sunlight) will overcome the activation energy barrier and cause it to violently start reacting. (It's actually kind of neat to see).

 

What would the temperature range be ?

 

What might happen if air leaks in before or while the reaction is taking place ?

[RyanJ]

What would the temperature range be ?

 

What might happen if air leaks in before or while the reaction is taking place ?

 

You'd probably get a bang - Oxygen has a way of doing that to just about anyhting! You mix oxygen and fine powdered anything, add a spark and then you get an explosion - how nice!

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan Jones

[jdurg]

What would the temperature range be ?

 

What might happen if air leaks in before or while the reaction is taking place ?

 

The temperature range, as far as I can remember, is any temperature at all. So this will happen at room temperature. (I know because I've done it before). If air leaks in, you may still get a reaction going as long as the concentrations are high enough. H2 is just so damned light that it will quickly escape if a hole opens up.

[YT2095]

I got the mix down to a powder which was bubbling but looked dry.

It didnt give any brown gass off' date=' [/quote']

 

in that case you were doing the HCl synth then, and as stated in post #28 for HCl NaCl and conc H2SO4 will make a yellowish mixture, and the Brown gas is from Na or KNO3 salts for the Nitric synth

 

it sounds like you didn`t have enough acid and let it boil too dry, naturaly as soon as you lose heat, you lose presure, and that will force any product you`ve made back up the distilation tube, you`re lucky it didn`t go back into the boiling flask! it would have likely caused a steam explosion! (I`ve seen it done in basic chem with newbies, remove the bunsen, sucks the product up into the reaction vessel and BANG!).

often blowing appart the quikfit glass joints appart too and utterly ruining the reaction vessel (quite expensive to replase also!).

[jsatan]

in that case you were doing the HCl synth then' date=' and as stated in post #28 for HCl NaCl and conc H2SO4 will make a yellowish mixture, and the Brown gas is from Na or KNO3 salts for the Nitric synth

 

it sounds like you didn`t have enough acid and let it boil too dry, naturaly as soon as you lose heat, you lose presure, and that will force any product you`ve made back up the distilation tube, you`re lucky it didn`t go back into the boiling flask! it would have likely caused a steam explosion! (I`ve seen it done in basic chem with newbies, remove the bunsen, sucks the product up into the reaction vessel and BANG!).

often blowing appart the quikfit glass joints appart too and utterly ruining the reaction vessel (quite expensive to replase also!).[/quote']

 

Quick fit is what I'm using.

 

Anyway problem solved.

I didnt (dont know why) check the ph of the acid.

Well it was....6 wow.

So I boiled some up then added the KNO3 and it worked a treat.

I've now charged the bat (slow very slow old bat) and its ph is about 3 (about 1hr ago) so thats working. lol

I'm all set.

such a silly over sight.

[jsatan]

The penny has finally dropped from a great height...

I've made nitric acid later I'm going to make HCl acid.

I wasnt thinking along the right lines at first.

Iwas thinking I would mix the chems and heat to give off the gas, BUT not because of boiling away the water.

So now I know why it seemed as if I didnt have a clue.

[YT2095]

is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that when HCl is exposed to air (even a small drop) the next day there`s like a white "Frosting" on everything around it?

 

often including the bottle it came from around the cap this "frosting" effect develops.

 

what is it?

[woelen]

Yes, I know this. I also have this at my HNO3 bottles. I even had white needle-like crystals around the cap and the top of the bottle.

 

I have scraped off some of the white stuff from a bottle, which had a lot of that stuff. I added this to a solution of NaOH and then I noticed a fairly strong smell of ammonia.

 

So, I'm inclined to think that the white 'frost' is the ammonium salt of the acid (i.e. NH4Cl or NH4NO3). In the air, there always is some ammonia and this forms a solid with HCl-vapour and also with HNO3-vapor.

 

If you have a bottle with quite some of the white stuff, just try it yourself and smell the ammonia.

[YT2095]

woelen here`s a seemingly ODD question for you, but do you have any Cats at all in your home?

[jdurg]

woelen here`s a seemingly ODD question for you, but do you have any Cats at all in your home?

 

Ahhhh. Very good question. Urine tends to have quite a bit of ammonia in there, so if you have your acids anywhere near a source of urine you would see the ammonium chloride/nitrate crystals.

[woelen]

No cats, but young children also sometimes can give rise to certain smells .

[akcapr]

lol and same for old granny's like mine.. ughh

[Tugrul]

i got a whole lt of sodium bi sulfate just so i could make hcl with nacl. havent gotten about to doing it ye tho

 

You could just use NaCl and H2S04 and buble it through water.

 

Just an idea, i have a feeling it could be cheaper

[hermanntrude]

i suspect that reaction wouldn't go to completion and you'd end up with an unholy mixture of acids and salts