How does human acquire conceptual concept?

[B Milligan]

Picture a circle in mind, and you'll always find it is a circle with specific size. In that case, how do we know the general circle from specific circle?

[geordief]

31 minutes ago, B Milligan said:

Picture a circle in mind, and you'll always find it is a circle with specific size. In that case, how do we know the general circle from specific circle?

Because we have learned to generalize? If my brother slept with my wife then so might his best friend or my other brothers.

Edited April 6, 2023 by geordief

[Genady]

6 hours ago, B Milligan said:

Picture a circle in mind, and you'll always find it is a circle with specific size. In that case, how do we know the general circle from specific circle?

That circle in mind has a size, but it does not have a specific size. Otherwise, can you specify its size?

[Bufofrog]

9 hours ago, B Milligan said:

Picture a circle in mind, and you'll always find it is a circle with specific size.

That's not true for me, if I imagine a circle it never has a specific size.

[Phi for All]

12 hours ago, B Milligan said:

Picture a circle in mind, and you'll always find it is a circle with specific size.

!

Moderator Note

Can you show some evidence to support this? It's not really an acceptable observation to base a discussion on if others disagree.

 

[B Milligan]

Sure, you can just draw a circle on a piece of paper, directly you'll see it is a circle 2cm or some other length in diameter. It depends on your what you think

Edited April 6, 2023 by B Milligan

[Phi for All]

52 minutes ago, B Milligan said:

Sure, you can just draw a circle on a piece of paper, directly you'll see it is a circle 2cm or some other length in diameter. It depends on your what you think

In your OP, you start with one circle, then you ask about two circles. In the above explanation, there's only one circle. Why are you inventing a "general" circle?

[Genady]

56 minutes ago, B Milligan said:

Sure, you can just draw a circle on a piece of paper, directly you'll see it is a circle 2cm or some other length in diameter. It depends on your what you think

When you draw a circle on a piece of paper with say a pencil, it also has a specific color, line width, graphite thickness, background color, electric conductivity, temperature, etc. We are capable of ignoring all these. The same way, we are capable of ignoring its size as well, and of focusing on its geometric shape.

[B Milligan]

6 hours ago, Phi for All said:

在您的 OP 中，您从一个圆圈开始，然后询问两个圆圈。在上面的解释中，只有一个圆圈。你为什么要发明一个“一般”圈子？

That's because the general one acts as the standard of circle and it must exclude irrelevant factors like color and size. Definitely this is not visible but more of a form.

6 hours ago, Genady said:

当你用铅笔在一张纸上画一个圆时，它也有特定的颜色、线宽、石墨厚度、底色、电导率、温度等。我们可以忽略这些。同样，我们也可以忽略它的大小，而专注于它的几何形状。

That's where I agree with you. But the point is, how do we neglect that

[Genady]

9 minutes ago, B Milligan said:

the point is, how do we neglect that

After encountering several different circles, we neglect features that vary. 

[TheVat]

What is a "conceptual concept" and how does it differ from a concept?  

The one thing we do not do when thinking of "circle" as a geometric concept is to think of a specific size.  That's the point of abstract thinking about objects: it strips away concrete qualities, leaving the core meaning, i.e. that which is common to all such objects.  Common to all circles is a continuous line at a constant distance from a center point.

[B Milligan]

6 minutes ago, TheVat said:

什么是“概念概念”，它与概念有何不同？  

在将“圆”视为几何概念时，我们没有做的一件事是考虑特定的大小。这就是对对象进行抽象思考的要点：它剥离了具体的品质，留下了核心意义，即所有这些对象共有的意义。所有圆的共同点是一条与中心点保持恒定距离的连续线。

Actually that is a typo, the big idea is that can the common of circles, as you mentioned, be visualized? If not, how can we know that? My answer is not, since when you want to represent the"constant distance" in picture, it has to be in specific size, 3cm or 4cm etc. Not a general notion.

[Genady]

Concepts in mind are not visual entities. When you try to visualize a concept, you get its visual representation. Concepts are different from their visual representations.

 

[B Milligan]

31 minutes ago, Genady said:

头脑中的概念不是视觉实体。当您尝试形象化一个概念时，您会得到它的视觉表示。概念不同于它们的视觉表示。

 

So in what way does the human learn the existence of concept?

[Genady]

3 hours ago, B Milligan said:

So in what way does the human learn the existence of concept?

I don't know what "learn the existence of concept" means.

[iNow]

3 hours ago, B Milligan said:

So in what way does the human learn the existence of concept?

Exposure

[B Milligan]

13 minutes ago, Genady said:

I don't know what "learn the existence of concept" means.

cross out "the existence"

[Genady]

57 minutes ago, B Milligan said:

cross out "the existence"

Like @iNow has mentioned above, we learn concepts by being exposed to them, via experience, interactions, demonstrations, explanations, etc. 

[B Milligan]

On 4/6/2023 at 11:37 PM, Phi for All said:

!

Moderator Note

Can you show some evidence to support this? It's not really an acceptable observation to base a discussion on if others disagree.

 

Sure, when I inagine what a circle look like, my mind always provides me a circle as same as one drawn on paper, and the circle always has its specific diameter of 3cm or 4cm. Arrording to Kant's theory, the reason why a man can spot a circle is because he has got the scheme of it. I wonder if we can know what a general circle or, as mentioned,  the scheme look like.

[TheVat]

ChatGPT, is that you?  Howdy!